Is Dirk Nowitzki a Top 5 NBA player?

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Skyhook79

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May 18, 2011 1:36 PM
lhslep134;772984 wrote:Lebron's played 8 seasons in a SIGNIFICANTLY easier conference and has only made 1 (maybe this year 2) finals yet he's considered top 5.

That's a terrible argument for why he's not top 5. In the West, you can't ride 1 player to the finals, the West is too talented.

In the east we saw two teams (Philly 01 and Cavs 07 off the top of my head) that were garbage but had singular transcendental performances to take them to the finals.


Your right, Boobie Gibson and Dikembe Mutumbo performances were great getting their team to the Finals but i wouldn't call them "transcendental".
May 18, 2011 1:36pm
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DeyDurkie5

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May 18, 2011 1:49 PM
Ty Webb;772962 wrote:Lebron
Kobe
Rose
Wade
Durant
Melo
A'mare
Dwight

I might put him right behind those guys

you are racist
May 18, 2011 1:49pm
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lhslep134

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May 18, 2011 1:59 PM
Skyhook79;772990 wrote:Your right, Boobie Gibson and Dikembe Mutumbo performances were great getting their team to the Finals but i wouldn't call them "transcendental".

One of your less effective uses at sarcasm. Say what you want, but the 2001 76ers and 2007 Cavs are arguably the worst teams to make the finals in the last 25 years. They each had a transcendental from a superstar making their only finals appearance (I think we'll see Lebron in more but as of now he's been to 1) and not much else.

While Dirk has had much more talent around him, it still wasn't as much talent as the Lakers and Spurs.

And you know what? In the last 12 years the only teams to make the finals out of the Western Conference are the Lakers, Spurs, and Mavericks. Think about that for a second, and how damn freaking good those teams are and you need to re-evaluate how good Dirk really is to lead his teams to 50+ wins a year in that conference.
May 18, 2011 1:59pm
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Skyhook79

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May 18, 2011 4:40 PM
lhslep134;773013 wrote:One of your less effective uses at sarcasm. Say what you want, but the 2001 76ers and 2007 Cavs are arguably the worst teams to make the finals in the last 25 years.
1995 Houston Rockets 6th seed.
May 18, 2011 4:40pm
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lhslep134

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May 18, 2011 5:02 PM
Skyhook79;773159 wrote:1995 Houston Rockets 6th seed.

They had a hall of famer in Hakeem and a perennial all star in Drexler.

Still a better supporting cast than what Lebron or AI had.



And bravo on addressing the least important point of my entire post. Must mean you agree with it.
May 18, 2011 5:02pm
The Boss's avatar

The Boss

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May 18, 2011 6:33 PM
LeBron
Wade
Durant
Rose
Howard

There are 5 that I'd take over Dirk, personally. Could be a couple more. Top 10 for sure. Playing like the best player in the league in the playoffs though--but this is only a question because the media has made sure that everyone has an attention span of less than 3 minutes. So when somebody is hot, they get overrated, cold, underrated, etc.

I'm not even sure I'd have Rose in my top 5, but I'd take him over Dirk. But to those of you who laugh at not having the MVP in your top 5, would you have put Steve Nash in your top 5 in both years he won it?
May 18, 2011 6:33pm
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Scarlet_Buckeye

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May 18, 2011 7:35 PM
lhslep134;772984 wrote:Lebron's played 8 seasons in a SIGNIFICANTLY easier conference and has only made 1 (maybe this year 2) finals yet he's considered top 5.

That's a terrible argument for why he's not top 5. In the West, you can't ride 1 player to the finals, the West is too talented.

In the east we saw two teams (Philly 01 and Cavs 07 off the top of my head) that were garbage but had singular transcendental performances to take them to the finals.

LeBron has been named League MVP twice, and many believe should have won it a third time! Also, Dirk doesn't average the stringed even CLOSE to LeBron! And if LeBron chokes this season a solid argument could be made that He's a bit overrated as well.
May 18, 2011 7:35pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

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May 18, 2011 7:44 PM
lhslep134;773180 wrote:They had a hall of famer in Hakeem and a perennial all star in Drexler.

Still a better supporting cast than what Lebron or AI had.



And bravo on addressing the least important point of my entire post. Must mean you agree with it.

What is there to address? Because Dirk played in a competitive Conference and his team won 50+ games and he made it to the Finals 1 time out of 12 years he should be a top 5 player?
May 18, 2011 7:44pm
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Jester

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May 19, 2011 12:06 AM
Top 5 player? No, not in my mind. Doesn't seem to play defense well enough for me to put him in my top 5. He is definitely a top 5 offensive player though.
May 19, 2011 12:06am
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lhslep134

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May 24, 2011 9:40 AM
I think what he did last night is more than anyone else in the league can do in pulling their team back from 15 points down while being HOUNDED by a good defender.


Only player in the league I think that can do that besides Dirk is Kobe.
May 24, 2011 9:40am
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The Boss

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May 24, 2011 9:51 AM
lhslep134;778561 wrote:I think what he did last night is more than anyone else in the league can do in pulling their team back from 15 points down while being HOUNDED by a good defender.


Only player in the league I think that can do that besides Dirk is Kobe.

Almost any superstar in the league can and has done it, just because Dirk did it most recently doesn't mean others haven't. But a good defender? Who? Collison?
May 24, 2011 9:51am
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lhslep134

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May 24, 2011 10:03 AM
The Boss;778575 wrote:Almost any superstar in the league can and has done it?


Name the last superstar to bring his team from down 15 in the last 4:30 of a game in the conference finals to victory
The Boss;778575 wrote: But a good defender? Who? Collison?
Don't take my word for it, take Dirk's. http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4678427/dirk-defender-nick-collison-is-hell-of-a-player
“You saw how he plays,” said Nowitzki, who mentioned Collison’s physical nature as his best attribute. “It’s nothing new the last [several] years. He battled Z-Bo great the last round. Z-Bo is probably the best low-post scorer we have in the game right now and [Collison] tried to front him some and mixed up his coverages. He’s a smart and good defender with a hard nose. He plays hard.
Thanks, have a nice day.
May 24, 2011 10:03am
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The Boss

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May 24, 2011 10:11 AM
LOL...what do you think he's going to say about Collison? He's done a nice job, I certainly wouldn't call him a good defender though--name the last time someone called him a good defender. Have you seen the numbers Dirk is putting up? Their double/triple teams are doing as much for them as Collison is by himself.

I don't know when it happened, it doesn't matter if it was the conference finals and apparently you think Dirk was the only guy on the floor last night. Not saying he didn't play well, but quit sensationalizing everything. Dirk plays well in the playoffs, not much different than how he's played his entire career, and now all of a sudden they take notice. Now, we have threads on whether or not he's a top 5 player? Where was this thread in the beginning of the season? Or even at the AS break? Not my fault if you're one of those ones, apparently like the people at ESPN/TNT, who are just now noticing how talented Dirk is. But what he is doing really isn't impressing me any more than a lot of the shows other superstars have put on. It's Dirk, if you're surprised then you haven't been playing attention to the NBA for the last 10 years.
May 24, 2011 10:11am
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Heretic

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May 24, 2011 10:16 AM
The Boss;773251 wrote:I'm not even sure I'd have Rose in my top 5, but I'd take him over Dirk. But to those of you who laugh at not having the MVP in your top 5, would you have put Steve Nash in your top 5 in both years he won it?

The first year, yes. Easily. The second year, I don't know that I would.

As for Dirk, I'm still undecided, but this year, he is possibly having the playoffs of his life where he's turning into a beast in crunch time. If he can keep on doing this for the rest of the postseason, I could see him being on my top five. At least, going off your list, above Howard. Dude's dominating, but really can be less than inspiring in big-time situations because of free throws and because he just has these periods where he turns invisible.
May 24, 2011 10:16am
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May 24, 2011 10:21 AM
I'll give you that. But what Howard brings on defense, combined with his offensive ability, is more than what Dirk brings I think. Howard can literally shut down the paint by himself, that's an incredible defensive advantage for your team. I think Howard's biggest problem offensively is that his coach is a jackass--there is no good game plan to consistently get him the ball in good spots, they try to let him create for himself a lot of times, that's not going to work.

Also, the NBA has learned from the past, and especially since the 3 point line. It's harder for big guys to get going on the block these days because defenses will shrink down and they KNOW that people will take a low percentage shot because of the 3 point line--and the shot clock for that matter.

Dirk is certainly in my top 10 in the league. If some of you want to trip up about top 5 or 10 or whatever, go right ahead, but hell, if you're top 50 in the league you're an incredible player.
May 24, 2011 10:21am
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lhslep134

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May 24, 2011 10:22 AM
Tsk tsk tsk SQ.

Anyone can put up monster numbers in the regular season. It's the regular season, who gives a shit. That's why this thread was unnecessary until now. To be a top 5 player in the league you need to be transcendental IMO. Does that come during the regular season? Hell no, it comes during the playoffs, the only time of the year that matters.

Until now, I'd say Dirk's playoff performances, while still great, weren't transcendental. What he has done this postseason, however, IS.

So STFU about "where was this thread before the season, at the AS break" ---it doesn't matter how good a player is during the offseason, or the previous season, or during the first half of the year.

Right now, Dirk is one of the 5 best players in the entire NBA. If you disagree, fine, but I don't think you can make an argument for 5 other players if you're considering Dwight "I disappear in big games and can't hit free throws" Howard to be ahead of him because Dwight is absolutely underwhelming on offense relative to his size advantage.
May 24, 2011 10:22am
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May 24, 2011 10:29 AM
Apparently they only play on one side of the court, eh?
May 24, 2011 10:29am
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lhslep134

why so serious?

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May 24, 2011 10:32 AM
The Boss;778635 wrote:Apparently they only play on one side of the court, eh?

Apparently you're ignorant to Dirk's defense eh?

http://www.nba.com/hoop/lowpost/dirk_nowitzki_is__great_defen_2011_05_10.html
People just need to get over first impressions.

Dirk Nowitzki has become a great team defender.
Sounds like you need to get over your first impression....don't let defensive stats get in your way though!!!
May 24, 2011 10:32am
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The Boss

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May 24, 2011 10:45 AM
LMFAO...so Dirk is GREAT offensively. Howard is just good. But Howard is GREAT defensively, and Dirk is just good. And somehow that is different? Look dude, I can pull stats out of my ass that make Howard look better. Truth is I don't really give a fuck, they're both good players.

We need to collectively quit comparing individual players with any basis on what their team does, there are too many variables. Remember learning about variables? In like 1st fucking grade.

Anyways, for the sake of avoiding anymore pointless debate in this thread: Dirk is better than Howard, I would put him in my top 5 over Howard. Rejoice lhs! Now go fist your ass in celebration, or whatever other faggy thing you do for fun.
May 24, 2011 10:45am
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jpake1

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May 24, 2011 11:02 AM
Hes playing great, but I need to see more. If they meet up with Miami, we shall see how far hes come along since the last finals between the teams. Definitely top 10 tho. Maybe top 5. No higher than 4 imo.
May 24, 2011 11:02am
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Automatik

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May 24, 2011 11:12 AM
When I read questions like this I look at individual skill set. I don't care what their team does or does not accomplish.

That being said...I don't think Dirk is top 5, but top 10 definitely.
May 24, 2011 11:12am
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lhslep134

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May 24, 2011 11:26 AM
Sq, wtf is going through your head?

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of you not thinking Dirk isn't top 5. Fine, you're entitled to your opinion, just like Auto and whoever else doesn't agree with me.

I am attacking your logic. First you said Collison isn't a good defender, so I had to prove that wrong. Then you said Dirk isn't a good defender, so I had to prove that wrong too.

Nothing more nothing less. If you're reading more into it than that, then I'm so sorry you're so stupid.
May 24, 2011 11:26am
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Commander of Awesome

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May 24, 2011 11:28 AM
lhslep134;778692 wrote:Sq, how dumb are you.

lol
May 24, 2011 11:28am
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May 24, 2011 11:30 AM
Automatik;778683 wrote:When I read questions like this I look at individual skill set. I don't care what their team does or does not accomplish.

That being said...I don't think Dirk is top 5, but top 10 definitely.

Some people seem to think that when a TEAM comes back from a 15 point deficit, they did so because they took everyone off the floor but 1 guy...

I'm not blind to the parallel of this thread and the hype machine that is ESPN that has been going ape shit over Dirk. Is he playing well? Absolutely. But now we're having discussions on whether he's top 5? Why? Sensationalism. We wouldn't have had these during the regular season, we wouldn't have had these during previous playoff runs where he played well. He's BEEN a great player for a long time, it's incredible how some people react to certain things. If you didn't know all of this about him before this years playoffs started then you either aren't an NBA fan, weren't paying attention or your an idiot. I mean could you have argued that he's a top 5 player before the playoffs? Certainly, but we didn't have that discussion. Now all of a sudden everyone is paying attention because they beat the Lakers. And now on ESPN's front page, currently, there is a question to whether or not he's like MJ and/or Bird and whether or not he's one of the 30 greatest players of all time or whatever it is. It's mind numbing, I fucking hate ESPN, especially because they've empowered every average fan with the belief that they're brilliant.
May 24, 2011 11:30am
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lhslep134

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May 24, 2011 11:39 AM
Automatik;778683 wrote:When I read questions like this I look at individual skill set.

That being said...I don't think Dirk is top 5, but top 10 definitely.


That's fine, but tell me who you think has a better skillset than Dirk to push him out of your top 5. I'll give you Kobe, Lebron, Wade.
May 24, 2011 11:39am