majorspark;760113 wrote: Controlling a little tiny facet of risk? Just substitute soldiers for people. Isn't that what the Patriot Act is all about?

What?

Thinking that not releasing the photos isn't a big deal = I like the Patriot Act now?

The Patriot Act is incredibly stupid, not releasing photos of a shot up corpse isn't.

I Wear Pants;760168 wrote:What?

Thinking that not releasing the photos isn't a big deal = I like the Patriot Act now?

The Patriot Act is incredibly stupid, not releasing photos of a shot up corpse isn't.

Are you not one who bitches about this climate of fear surrounding terrorism? Now you are worried a few radicals will go ape shit.

75% of the new found respect I had for His Bamness for pulling the trigger on this mission has evaporated...it didn't take long for his testicles to un-drop.

While we're at it...excellent job handing over our brand new stealth technology to the farking Chi-Coms.

fish82;760204 wrote:75% of the new found respect I had for His Bamness for pulling the trigger on this mission has evaporated...it didn't take long for his testicles to un-drop.

While we're at it...excellent job handing over our brand new stealth technology to the farking Chi-Coms.

Because you know that was the point of the mission. Didn't take long for people to get back to their seats and and flip the bird across the aisle.

majorspark;760069 wrote:
Nope. Not if you have sold out to the infidels and now work for them. A true muslim a servant of the the great satan? No way.

Also you need to understand what group of people I am speaking about. I am talking about the radical islamic nutbags that would go ape shit over this. Everyone claims they are a small minority of muslims (which I agree) but if that is the case why in the hell do we fret over this small group going ape shit.

The 2nd part of my post "With that logic, let's just find a Muslim in the Federal Government and let them release them." was sarcasm.

majorspark;760087 wrote:As long as US or coalitions soldiers boots are on the ground in their nations and we continue our support for Israel these people will be killing our soldiers. Whether we show Bin Laden with his brains blown out or not it will not change their minds.

You're exactly right. Listen to the pre 9/11 tapes of Bin Laden and he says almost exactly the same thing. It didn't take anything inflammatory like gruesome photos to incite the most deadly attack on US soil.

I was bothered by Jay Carney's (and later Obama's) statement that

it was important to make sure that very graphic photos of a man who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool."That's not who we are. We don't trot out this stuff as trophies

I didn't like the thought that if someone else uses something as a propaganda tool, or as an incitement to violence, that somehow it's our responsibility.

How long will we continue to let ourselves be held hostage by the belly-crawling, bottom-feeding radical jihadist of the world?

1) Better burn those Bibles intended for the troops in Afghanistan, or else it will incite violence
2) Don't burn that Koran, or else it will incite violence
3) Don't show photos of a dead terrorist, or else it will incite violence.

Instead of saying to our enemies "What can we do to make you hate us less?", why don't we say, "We don't care what you think- when you target and kill innocent civilians- this (Osama's photo) is what happens to you" ?

jhay78;760533 wrote:...

why don't we say, "We don't care what you think- when you target and kill innocent civilians- this (Osama's photo) is what happens to you" ?

Would we be doing that as an attempt at further deterring them?

Con_Alma;760539 wrote:Would we be doing that as an attempt at further deterring them?

Not necessarily. I don't think it would work as a deterrant. I don't even think that the photos HAVE to be released. I just didn't like the reasons given for NOT releasing them.

You would like that done out of frustration??

I agree that they don't HAVE to be released. Some will demand it, however, and they, the administration, is trying to give them a reason why they don't want to right now....even if it's not the entire or real reason.

bigkahuna;760447 wrote:Because you know that was the point of the mission. Didn't take long for people to get back to their seats and and flip the bird across the aisle.

Of course it wasn't the point of the mission. Does that make it less of a fuckup? :rolleyes:

Con_Alma;760558 wrote:You would like that done out of frustration??

I agree that they don't HAVE to be released. Some will demand it, however, and they, the administration, is trying to give them a reason why they don't want to right now....even if it's not the entire or real reason.

Then they need to come up with a better reason...'cause the one on the table sucks.

A few more details of the operation:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/05/official-1-killed-bin-laden-raid-armed-firing/

fish82;760611 wrote:Then they need to come up with a better reason...'cause the one on the table sucks.

I would disagree with the premise. As no one has any right to see the photos, they don't need a reason at all. I see nothing being accomplished by making them public.

Apparently, the CIA had a house where they spied on Bin Laden for a few months before the operation. This is not a surprise really and old school CIA tactics, bread and butter.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cia-spied-on-bin-laden-from-safe-house/2011/05/05/AFXbG31F_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

On another note, the wonky blogs and even defense industry sites are going crazy over the wreckage of the destroyed chopper that brought in the SEALS. Blogs are buzzing about a stealth chopper in Blackhawk form.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6414345&c=ASI&s=AIR
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/aviation-geeks-scramble-to-i-d-osama-raids-mystery-copter/all/1

ptown_trojans_1;761041 wrote:On another note, the wonky blogs and even defense industry sites are going crazy over the wreckage of the destroyed chopper that brought in the SEALS. Blogs are buzzing about a stealth chopper in Blackhawk form.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6414345&c=ASI&s=AIR
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/aviation-geeks-scramble-to-i-d-osama-raids-mystery-copter/all/1

I saw footage of that bird, and it didn't look anywhere near totally destroyed. A lot was very definable. I hope nothing important could be gleaned from what remained.

Writerbuckeye;761044 wrote:I saw footage of that bird, and it didn't look anywhere near totally destroyed. A lot was very definable. I hope nothing important could be gleaned from what remained.

What was left was the tail rotor, according to all sources, as the SEALS used incendiary grenades to destroy most, if not all the wreckage. Then apparently, the wreckage was picked up by the U.S. At least that is what I've read.

I think his daughter already said he's dead. I see no practical/functional purpose to releasing the photos. Either you believe he's dead, or you'll believe that the pictures are faked.

ptown_trojans_1;761037 wrote:Apparently, the CIA had a house where they spied on Bin Laden for a few months before the operation. This is not a surprise really and old school CIA tactics, bread and butter.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cia-spied-on-bin-laden-from-safe-house/2011/05/05/AFXbG31F_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

That's awesome. Looks like Abbottabad wasn't so great of a choice for OBL, as foreigners and vacationers could move freely in and out, although it wasn't exactly someplace you would go to look for an Al Qaeda leader. And the large compound was definitely a red flag.

majorspark;760177 wrote:Are you not one who bitches about this climate of fear surrounding terrorism? Now you are worried a few radicals will go ape shit.

Difference here is I'm not suggesting that we strip the rights of our citizens or anyone to do it. I'm just suggesting that maybe releasing photos of a dead guy isn't absolutely necessariy. And I'm not worried about an attack on our citizens or anything, just our military members who I think deserve any and all help we can give them. So I'll take the gamble and say don't release the photos because there is no downside to it but the upside is that maybe it will make it so some douchebag doesn't plant that IED or at least, doesn't do it right now because of us releasing a photo.

Gigantic difference.

I don't have any problem with not releasing the photo, nor do I have any problem with the reason given.

HE'S FUCKING DEAD!! END OF DISCUSSION!!

I Wear Pants;761140 wrote:Difference here is I'm not suggesting that we strip the rights of our citizens or anyone to do it.

Point taken. I don't want these clowns to use fear to affect either our domestic policy or our foreign policy.

I Wear Pants;761140 wrote:I'm just suggesting that maybe releasing photos of a dead guy isn't absolutely necessary.

I agree. My problem is if the reason they are not released is because we are afraid some nutbag radicals are going to go crazy then the fear of how they will react has control over us.

I Wear Pants;761140 wrote:And I'm not worried about an attack on our citizens or anything, just our military members who I think deserve any and all help we can give them. So I'll take the gamble and say don't release the photos because there is no downside to it but the upside is that maybe it will make it so some douchebag doesn't plant that IED or at least, doesn't do it right now because of us releasing a photo.

I am curious if you felt the same way about the Afghanistan kill team photos or those at Abu Ghraib. Our military need all the help the can get. We would not want to gamble. Should the federal government if they could suppress these pics? As for the douchebag's planting IED's they do it because we occupy their homeland. Pic or no Pic they have all the motivation they need because foreign troops are in their homeland (and double that because we support Israel). If foreign troops occupied our lands, you and I would have more than enough motivation to be out planting IED's. A photograph of a foreigner with his brains blown out would not swing the pendulum.

Different situations with the kill team photos IMO.

And I see your point about the occupation and it's something I've said before so I guess I don't care whether they release the photos or not. But I'm certainly not going to get in a big uproar if they say they don't want to release them because they think it could spark more violence than would otherwise occur immediately after they were released. If it was a photograph of your operational and motivational leader then it probably would have some effect.

I Wear Pants;761178 wrote:Different situations with the kill team photos IMO.

Yes different situations. But why allow the actions of a few to poison the war effort? Court martial their asses. Let them rot in federal prison. No rights of our citizens are being stripped by suppressing the publication of the kill team photos.

I Wear Pants;761178 wrote:And I see your point about the occupation and it's something I've said before so I guess I don't care whether they release the photos or not. But I'm certainly not going to get in a big uproar if they say they don't want to release them because they think it could spark more violence than would otherwise occur immediately after they were released.

Should the Abu Ghraib photos have been suppressed for this very reason?

I Wear Pants;761178 wrote:If it was a photograph of your operational and motivational leader then it probably would have some effect.

Are you saying that Bin Laden was the motivation behind their resistance to our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan? He was their inspiration? He was their operational leader? If as you say Bin Laden is their leader and inspiring their fight that proves we had just cause to invade.

No they shouldn't have because those intances, both of them were of clear moral wrongdoing on our part. Are we supposed to be the good guys or not?

And where the fuck did I mention Iraq? He was obviously an organizing force and motivational figure for Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan though. But simply because he was so doesn't in itself legitimize our invasion.