Y-Town Steelhound;749385 wrote:Oh no doubt Tressel handled it poorly...but the FACT that remains that if Pryor and his buddies don't sell their stuff NONE of this happens. That is something that CANNOT be debated. Tressel can't "cover up" something that never happened.

LJ;749382 wrote:There were no ineligable players played in the bowl game.

LJ;749387 wrote:Doesn't matter. Correlation /= causation. Pryor's actions did not cause tressel to do what he did. The FACT is that Tressel did this on his own. What the situation is makes no difference.

Y-Town Steelhound;749391 wrote:Man you must be using up the rest of your 420 stash. It doesn't matter that Tressel had a choice, the point is that he would not have had to make that choice had Pryor's actions not taken place. I really don't understand how I can explain that in any simpler terms...maybe someone can help me out. If no memorabilia is sold, there is no email to Tressel. Therefore none of the subsequent events take place.

ts1227;749388 wrote:Now, does the NCAA still have the wiggle room to say they were ineligible between the time when Tressel withheld the violation and the time when they were declared eligible for the bowl game? Possibly, but the NCAA will make themselves look really silly if they pull that.

LJ;749380 wrote:Tressel put himself in this situation. All he had to do was shoot an email to compliance. PERIOD. That's it and it's over with. Jim Tressel himself made the decision to not report it. It's no one's fault but his own.

LJ;749392 wrote:Or I just have an understanding that just because there is one event, that even did not CAUSE Tressel to make the wrong decision. he did that on his own. That has NOTHING to do with the players.

Y-Town Steelhound;749398 wrote:yes what a terrible accusation....sorry for sullying your reputation. Also sorry to group you with about 60% of the population.

I didn't say that Pryor's actions FORCED Tressel to make the wrong decision. I'm saying that if Pryor had acted differently Tressel would've never been put into the position to make the wrong decision because there would've been no decision to make. I realistically cannot understand how you can disagree with that.

enigmaax;749394 wrote:The NCAA doesn't need wiggle room. They can do whatever they want. Whatever logic or precedent it may defy, it isn't a foregone conclusion that if they go stripping wins the Sugar Bowl won't be included because the question is simply, how ticked off is the NCAA? They cut OSU a break on the bowl game only to find out later they had been hoodwinked and the entire situation wasn't resolved.

IF they force OSU to vacate the rest of the season, I believe it will include the Sugar Bowl.

Y-Town Steelhound;749408 wrote:So what you're saying then is that if Pryor and Co. had not committed any violations, Tressel and Ohio State would still be facing sanctions right now?

Y-Town Steelhound;749371 wrote:Yes and no. It's going to be interesting to define TP's legacy at Ohio State. On one end he's going to be most remembered for the tat-gate and almost costing Jim Tressel his job, not to mention being somewhat of a disappointment for being the #1 overall recruit out of high school. On the other end he's going to potentially end his career with almost four years as a starter, possibly 4 Big 10 championships (tied or outright), 4 BCS bowl appearances (which he could potentially be 3-1 or 4-0 if the other quarterback wasn't Colt McCoy), 4 wins against Michigan, and single digit losses as well as a slew of Ohio State records. Historically he's had one of the better QB careers all-time at OSU despite being seen as a disappointment both on and off the field.

LJ;749412 wrote:He could have made the wrong decision on another issue.

Please read up on this before writing your next response

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Y-Town Steelhound;749423 wrote:I know what the correlation-causation thing is, though I find it funny that you're trying to lecture me on it while responding with an ASSUMPTION that Tressel would simply just make a similar decision on another issue.

I'm not saying that Pryor's actions caused Tressel's actions. I'm saying that Pryor's actions caused the emails to be sent to Tressel at which point he had a decision to make. I don't know how anyone could argue that had the tat six not messed up, then Tressel would not have been put in a position to mess up. It really is as simple as that...and to argue differently would be to argue that Tressel and OSU would've been put in this position regardless of their actions.

Y-Town Steelhound;749425 wrote:Now if you want to argue that Cicero didn't HAVE to send the emails to Tressel in the first place, then that's fine. But what we have here is a series of events that STARTED with the players selling their stuff. That doesn't excuse Tressel or anyone else from their decisions....but you take away that one event then none of the other events take place....no emails, no forwarding of emails, no press conference, no NCAA sanctions. None of this happens if Pryor and the others don't sell their stuff.

LJ;749428 wrote:But it's still Correlation, there is no blame on the players for the decision that Tressel made.

Y-Town Steelhound;749433 wrote:There is no blame on the players for the decision Tressel ultimately made...there is blame on them for causing Tressel to HAVE TO MAKE a decision. I'm not budging off that sentiment. You can link all the wikipedia articles you want, but if you get in a hot tub time machine and go back to 2008 or whenever these guys sold their stuff and prevented that action from taking place...it completely changes the course of history because the decision that Tressel makes (which I agree is his fault) never takes place.

LJ;749434 wrote:I'm not putting blame on them for a completely seperate issue.

Y-Town Steelhound;749435 wrote:So you don't blame them for selling their stuff and committing NCAA violations?

jordo212000;749438 wrote:I'm not happy with TP, Posey, Herron, et al. and I am not happy with Tress either. Y-town has a point, if these guys don't go out hawking their uniforms and memoribila to a drug dealer, then Tress has nothing to lie about. This whole group probably just short circuited our program for the next 5 years.

I still wish we would have gotten rid of everybody involved. Cut ties and move on. The NCAA would/will take it easier on us.