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$5 Gas By Memorial Day

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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 12, 2011 1:46 PM
Tobias Fünke;739285 wrote:...
Also, it doesn't need to make money. That is a misguided conservative talking point that is simply untrue. What it needs is a net economic benefit. That is to say that the money spent on running the system needs to be recouped by taxes (via Value Capture) on the increase property values around stations. Not saying it is allowed to be a money pit, but just because you lose a million annually running it doesn't mean you don't make two million in taxes off property, if you get what I'm sayin'. Net economic benefit is what we're after. ...
I agree with you regarding net economic benefit and it not being allowed to be a money pit.
Apr 12, 2011 1:46pm
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fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Apr 12, 2011 1:57 PM
sleeper;739311 wrote:You do know you can participate in the market for oil. If its such easy money and you feel you know more about what the true market price of oil is compared to Harvard MBA's, then go for it!

Exactly. If someone is confident that oil is overpriced based on fundamentals, they can always enter the market, short oil, and then make a fortune.
Apr 12, 2011 1:57pm
dont_belong's avatar

dont_belong

Senior Member

180 posts
Apr 12, 2011 2:56 PM
fan_from_texas;739336 wrote:Exactly. If someone is confident that oil is overpriced based on fundamentals, they can always enter the market, short oil, and then make a fortune.

Most folks, including me, have no idea how in the hell to do that. Most of us only know that we get the effects of it and then are fed some BS story about how much Americans drive being the reason for the price of gasoline.
Apr 12, 2011 2:56pm
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fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Apr 12, 2011 3:00 PM
dont_belong;739387 wrote:Most folks, including me, have no idea how in the hell to do that. Most of us only know that we get the effects of it and then are fed some BS story about how much Americans drive being the reason for the price of gasoline.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+short+oil

How is that a BS story? Americans drive an awful lot and use an awful lot of gas. Demand is also increasing around the world. Supply is not increasing at a fast enough rate to keep pace, nor will it ever be possible again to do that. The result is a marked increase in gas prices. This isn't some BS conspiracy theory--this is just how it works.
Apr 12, 2011 3:00pm
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Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 12, 2011 3:03 PM
LJ;739162 wrote:How does that help me get from Blacklick to Polaris daily? And then to Easton another few days per week?

Oh wait, it doesn't.

Take the bus, that will solve your problem. Ever work in New York city? Public transportation is the primary means to work in the city, works well. Not going to debate HSR here already been done. If you actually looked at the Ohio proposal, you would understand is was the FIRST step, not the final solution. If not now then when?
Apr 12, 2011 3:03pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Apr 12, 2011 3:15 PM
Bigdogg;739396 wrote:Take the bus, that will solve your problem. Ever work in New York city? Public transportation is the primary means to work in the city, works well. Not going to debate HSR here already been done. If you actually looked at the Ohio proposal, you would understand is was the FIRST step, not the final solution. If not now then when?

It's a 7 mile drive to the nearest bus stop. It's 9 miles to where I consult, and for my other work, I can just work from home if I need to.

So once again, how does anything you have proposed help me? First steps would be urban and suburban systems, then the systems that connect larger cities. Ohio was going at it backwards.
Apr 12, 2011 3:15pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Apr 12, 2011 3:30 PM
georgemc80;739134 wrote:I don't understand the paycheck to paycheck argument. Don't we all have to budget our monthly expenses? I budget many things like two teens college funds and my own retirement. I even have savings, but aren't we all supposed to budget and live within our means? So technically, don't we all live paycheck to paycheck? How many of us would enjoy missing a paycheck?

$4 gas is the only thing that disrupts my monthly budget, but I will never drive a Prius or Smartcar or risk my life on a motorcycle. I like my Durango, my son has an incredible school and friend group, so moving is out of the question for at least 4 years. Changing jobs in my case would be dumb and a step down. So I adjust my budget, begrudgingly.

Point being we live day to day....the vast majority live paycheck to paycheck or monthly budget to monthly budget.
Is it just those particular cars or do you have something against cars that get good gas mileage?
Apr 12, 2011 3:30pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Apr 12, 2011 3:37 PM
dont_belong;739387 wrote:Most folks, including me, have no idea how in the hell to do that. Most of us only know that we get the effects of it and then are fed some BS story about how much Americans drive being the reason for the price of gasoline.

you can find pretty much anything on the internet. Its not something you can do if you are one of those living "paycheck to paycheck" though. You have to have some savings and be risky enough to invest your money.
Apr 12, 2011 3:37pm
Tobias Fünke's avatar

Tobias Fünke

formerly "sjmvsfscs08"

2,387 posts
Apr 12, 2011 4:07 PM
Bigdogg;739396 wrote:Take the bus, that will solve your problem. Ever work in New York city? Public transportation is the primary means to work in the city, works well. Not going to debate HSR here already been done. If you actually looked at the Ohio proposal, you would understand is was the FIRST step, not the final solution. If not now then when?
As LJ points out, HSR needs to connect transportation hubs within downtowns. We don't even have the hubs built, or to some extent even conceived. I don't quite understand the "first step" argument; why propose a 55mph train that no one would ride? Propose a great plan and work on getting the funding. Half-assed and ass-backwards is not going to get it done.

LJ;739409 wrote:It's a 7 mile drive to the nearest bus stop. It's 9 miles to where I consult, and for my other work, I can just work from home if I need to.

So once again, how does anything you have proposed help me? First steps would be urban and suburban systems, then the systems that connect larger cities. Ohio was going at it backwards.

True, and bus systems are not faster; they are slower because of the numerous stops every hundred feet. COTA is merely a magnet for the poor unfortunately. Statistics show that something the poor make up something like 80% of the riders on bus systems, yet only like 14% of streetcar riders. Clearly, building a system that is given priority over car travel has its perks.

As for your "how does it help me?" question, didn't you say you would never live in a walkable or bikable community and that it was purely by preference? Well, that's the situation you wanted.
Apr 12, 2011 4:07pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 12, 2011 9:00 PM
dont_belong;739387 wrote:Most folks, including me, have no idea how in the hell to do that. Most of us only know that we get the effects of it and then are fed some BS story about how much Americans drive being the reason for the price of gasoline.
So quit being lazy and learn how to do it.
LJ;739409 wrote:It's a 7 mile drive to the nearest bus stop. It's 9 miles to where I consult, and for my other work, I can just work from home if I need to.

So once again, how does anything you have proposed help me? First steps would be urban and suburban systems, then the systems that connect larger cities. Ohio was going at it backwards.

Bingo!!!!!
Apr 12, 2011 9:00pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Apr 12, 2011 9:12 PM
Tobias Fünke;739442 wrote: As for your "how does it help me?" question, didn't you say you would never live in a walkable or bikable community and that it was purely by preference? Well, that's the situation you wanted.

I'd possibly use an efficient park and ride system
Apr 12, 2011 9:12pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 12, 2011 9:16 PM
Tobias Fünke;739442 wrote:...
As for your "how does it help me?" question, didn't you say you would never live in a walkable or bikable community and that it was purely by preference? Well, that's the situation you wanted.


It is the situation I want and have no complaints whatsoever. I drive my kids 35 miles to school one way. It's the situation I want and have no complaints.
Apr 12, 2011 9:16pm
Tobias Fünke's avatar

Tobias Fünke

formerly "sjmvsfscs08"

2,387 posts
Apr 12, 2011 10:22 PM
LJ;739677 wrote:I'd possibly use an efficient park and ride system
I think that format has great benefits for a region. Each station would need a considerable amount of parking for both cars and bikes for that very reason. I'd use it in a heartbeat, but you already knew that. :)
Con_Alma;739685 wrote:It is the situation I want and have no complaints whatsoever. I drive my kids 35 miles to school one way. It's the situation I want and have no complaints.

I know the situation well. I grew up in Genoa, OH and rode/drove to private schools all of my life. Maumee Valley was ~30 minutes and St. Francis was ~35. Worth it? Yes.

However, not everyone has that luxury. In fact most people do not and fewer will, heading into the future.



I'm a bit surprised at the lack of vitriol for an intra-region system. That's a good thing though.
Apr 12, 2011 10:22pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 13, 2011 12:56 AM
Con_Alma;739685 wrote:It is the situation I want and have no complaints whatsoever. I drive my kids 35 miles to school one way. It's the situation I want and have no complaints.

Do you leave the doors at your house unlocked when driving the kids to school? ;)
Apr 13, 2011 12:56am
Tobias Fünke's avatar

Tobias Fünke

formerly "sjmvsfscs08"

2,387 posts
Apr 13, 2011 1:16 AM
boom roasted.
Apr 13, 2011 1:16am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 13, 2011 5:05 AM
dwccrew;739935 wrote:Do you leave the doors at your house unlocked when driving the kids to school? ;)


??? Of course. I can't remember the last time they were locked.
Apr 13, 2011 5:05am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Apr 13, 2011 12:34 PM
Con_Alma;739999 wrote:??? Of course. I can't remember the last time they were locked.

I can. I couldn't come in and watch you sleep that night. Must've been an accident.
Apr 13, 2011 12:34pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Apr 13, 2011 12:40 PM
...or the wrong house!!!!! Thought my neighbors called the police on someone recently!!! ;)
Apr 13, 2011 12:40pm