My dislike for college football's BCS system is shrinking

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like_that

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Apr 6, 2011 4:26 PM
SportsAndLady;733616 wrote:But this is exactly my point. The regular season in college football IS the March Madness tournament in college basketball. They are both practically single elimination tournaments. The regular season in college basketball is the most meaningless regular season in sports. Yes, no one really gives a shit about the other bowl games (even though, that's not necessarily true) but that isn't the point of the BCS...the point is to conceive two teams for the national championship.

So you really wouldn't want a playoff where the BCS decides the 12 playoff teams? I hate when people say the regular season is meaningless. If college football goes to a 12 team format most if not all the teams are going to have 1-2 losses at most (If the BCS is used to determine the playoff teams). I doubt any of those 12 teams would consider the regular season meaningless, especially the top 4 seeds (get a bye), and of course the last 2 teams in.

Look at the NFL. Do you think the Packers honestly didn't deserve to be named the champs for this past season? Do you think the regular season was meaningless to them? How about you as a fan?
Apr 6, 2011 4:26pm
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like_that

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Apr 6, 2011 4:27 PM
sleeper;734667 wrote:
Also, you keep harping on this "unbiased computer rankings" for CFB, umm, only 1/3 of the formula is computers.

This. Seems people forget about that.
Apr 6, 2011 4:27pm
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trep14

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Apr 6, 2011 4:27 PM
SportsAndLady;734593 wrote:Actually, if you can't see the difference of what I was talking about, i'm not sure what to tell you.

If you're going to argue that TCU did everything in its power (they didn't) to get to a spot to win a national championship, you have to argue that Va Tech did as well. TCU being in the BCSNC Game is the equivalent to Va Tech being in the March Madness Tournament--they both are in a position where it's up to them to prove it on the field/court to win a title. Va Tech was snubbed that chance, TCU wasn't snubbed that chance...TCU did not make it to the top 2 in the unbiased computer rankings. If they wanted to get in the top 2, schedule better OOC games. They know that's how the BCS rankings work, it's all based on who you play...did they really expect to get in the top 2, with 2 other BCS conference teams also undefeated, with their poor schedule?

By the way, it doesn't matter that college football has a meaningless postseason--at least to the BCS it doesn't matter. Their only role in college football is to choose the two national championship teams...the bowls then go off their rankings (not by the BCS' choice) to choose which two teams they want.

Actually I see exactly what you are saying. You are trying to compare the scenarios of TCU and Va Tech when they really aren't all that similar.
Apr 6, 2011 4:27pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:34 PM
sleeper;734667 wrote:TCU can't just "schedule better opponents", its a 2-way street and many big time opponents don't want to play a tough OOC game against TCU(if they win, they are suppose too, if they lose, your team is likely out of hte BCS).

Didn't TCU just turn down a big name program because they wouldn't come to TCU? Sorry but when your conference is that bad, you can't get picky on OOC schedules if you want to viably compete for a national championship. You have to go out and play @ OSU, @ Oklahoma, @ Florida, etc.....You know that the computers will only put you above a BCS undefeated opponent if your OOC schedule makes up for your weak conf. schedule...well TCU's didn't, so they cannot complain. They can't help that there's two other BCS conf. teams also undefeated, but what they can do is beef up in the OOC and hope that makes up for it.
sleeper;734667 wrote: Also, VA Tech has no one to blame but themselves. Honestly, if you're not good enough to win either your regular season championship, or win the conference tournament, then you don't have anything to bitch about come tournament time. The bubble teams are a coin flip, and they are lucky they even have a shot at that. In college basketball, you control your own destiny, win all your games, and you're the National Championship. It doesn't matter if "that's not realistic", its a true statement. TCU did all they could, undefeated, and they have no shot at the title. That's unfair, I don't care if they play little sisters of the poor every game, they are a D1 school with no shot at the championship.

Va Tech wasn't even a bubble team..by all accounts, they were in. Sure, they were on some "last four in" lists, but they were also safely in on a lot of bracketologists' brackets. Even if you do want to call them a bubble team, they had a resume' that was consistent with past bubble teams getting in. They not getting in was criminal. There are plenty of teams, every year, who don't win their conference season or tournament and still get in based off their overall resume'. Va Tech was one of them. They were snubbed..almost criminally.
Apr 6, 2011 4:34pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:37 PM
like_that;734672 wrote:So you really wouldn't want a playoff where the BCS decides the 12 playoff teams? I hate when people say the regular season is meaningless. If college football goes to a 12 team format most if not all the teams are going to have 1-2 losses at most (If the BCS is used to determine the playoff teams). I doubt any of those 12 teams would consider the regular season meaningless, especially the top 4 seeds (get a bye), and of course the last 2 teams in.

Look at the NFL. Do you think the Packers honestly didn't deserve to be named the champs for this past season? Do you think the regular season was meaningless to them? How about you as a fan?

Where have I ever said i wouldn't be in favor of a playoff? I would love a playoff. But, there are still going to be the same issues we have now...people complain about TCU being left out..if there is a 12 team playoff, people arne't going to complain about the 13th team being left out?

My only point, is the BCS does a good job of deciding the top 2 teams, based on overall resume' from the regular season...that can't be argued. Sure, a playoff would help give a few more teams chances, but there's always going to be people complaining, so why not keep it the way it is?
Apr 6, 2011 4:37pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:38 PM
trep14;734678 wrote:Actually I see exactly what you are saying. You are trying to compare the scenarios of TCU and Va Tech when they really aren't all that similar.

Explain to me how they are not similar. Both teams were left out of a chance to play for a national championship. Sounds pretty comparable to me.
Apr 6, 2011 4:38pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:39 PM
Didn't TCU just turn down a big name program because they wouldn't come to TCU? Sorry but when your conference is that bad, you can't get picky on OOC schedules if you want to viably compete for a national championship. You have to go out and play @ OSU, @ Oklahoma, @ Florida, etc.....You know that the computers will only put you above a BCS undefeated opponent if your OOC schedule makes up for your weak conf. schedule...well TCU's didn't, so they cannot complain. They can't help that there's two other BCS conf. teams also undefeated, but what they can do is beef up in the OOC and hope that makes up for it.
Why is TCU division one then? Why is their competition D1? If you are good enough to be a D1 school, you should be good enough to have the opportunity to compete for a D1 title. The way it is now, unless you are in the Big 6, you have no shot.
Va Tech wasn't even a bubble team..by all accounts, they were in.
If a pool of experts doesn't think that Va Tech did enough to be one of the top 68, then they didn't do enough. Top 68! This is an apples and oranges comparison, and its hilarious that you are trying to make it.
Apr 6, 2011 4:39pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:40 PM
SportsAndLady;734697 wrote:Where have I ever said i wouldn't be in favor of a playoff? I would love a playoff. But, there are still going to be the same issues we have now...people complain about TCU being left out..if there is a 12 team playoff, people arne't going to complain about the 13th team being left out?

My only point, is the BCS does a good job of deciding the top 2 teams, based on overall resume' from the regular season...that can't be argued. Sure, a playoff would help give a few more teams chances, but there's always going to be people complaining, so why not keep it the way it is?
No the 13th team won't compain. Win your conference, and you're in. Didn't win your conference? Cry to someone who cares.

Same with Va Tech, win your conference. They didn't, they have no right to complain.
Apr 6, 2011 4:40pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:41 PM
sleeper;734705 wrote:No the 13th team won't compain. Win your conference, and you're in. Didn't win your conference? Cry to someone who cares.

Same with Va Tech, win your conference. They didn't, they have no right to complain.

There won't be any at-large bids in this 12 team playoff?
Apr 6, 2011 4:41pm
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trep14

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Apr 6, 2011 4:43 PM
SportsAndLady;734699 wrote:Explain to me how they are not similar. Both teams were left out of a chance to play for a national championship. Sounds pretty comparable to me.

Dude. Give it up. No one here is buying the TCU-Va Tech similarities because they aren't that similar. One team went undefeated. You go on about how meaningful the regular season is in college football...how meaningful was it to TCU?

Likewise, Va Tech went 21-11 on the season. They were a flawed team. It is so much easier to exclude a team that has that many flaws on its resume from a 68 team tournament than it is a team that has no flaws on its resume from a two team tournament . There is a huge huge huge difference between arguing if the third team in the polls is being denied a championship shot than it is to argue against the 69th best team. And also, VCU didn't win the tournament. Come back and get me when a bubble team wins the whole thing.
Apr 6, 2011 4:43pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:47 PM
sleeper;734701 wrote:Why is TCU division one then? Why is their competition D1? If you are good enough to be a D1 school, you should be good enough to have the opportunity to compete for a D1 title. The way it is now, unless you are in the Big 6, you have no shot.

So what you're saying...if my Bobcats go undefeated next year, and Ohio State goes undefeated..and there's only one spot available, you wouldn't complain if OU received the spot over OSU? I mean OU is D1 and so are their opponents, why shouldn't they be able to compete for a D1 title with 12 victories (over absolutely no good competition) and 0 losses?
sleeper;734701 wrote:If a pool of experts doesn't think that Va Tech did enough to be one of the top 68, then they didn't do enough. Top 68! This is an apples and oranges comparison, and its hilarious that you are trying to make it.

A committee can be biased. They can make mistakes. They can put a deserving team on the wrong side of the tournament. That team is then unable to win a national championship...because of a human mistake. Nope, lets not look at that injustice, lets focus on a college football team going undefeated with maybe 3 good teams on their schedule and being left out over 2 other undefeated teams with much better competition on their schedule. Don't you see the inconsistencies there?
Apr 6, 2011 4:47pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:48 PM
trep14;734708 wrote:Dude. Give it up. No one here is buying the TCU-Va Tech similarities because they aren't that similar. One team went undefeated. You go on about how meaningful the regular season is in college football...how meaningful was it to TCU?

Likewise, Va Tech went 21-11 on the season. They were a flawed team. It is so much easier to exclude a team that has that many flaws on its resume from a 68 team tournament than it is a team that has no flaws on its resume from a two team tournament . There is a huge huge huge difference between arguing if the third team in the polls is being denied a championship shot than it is to argue against the 69th best team. And also, VCU didn't win the tournament. Come back and get me when a bubble team wins the whole thing.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

By the way, TCU went to the Rose Bowl, they won, they got paid millions of dollars...so yes, their regular season was extremely meaningful.
Apr 6, 2011 4:48pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:50 PM
SportsAndLady;734706 wrote:There won't be any at-large bids in this 12 team playoff?

Does it matter? Win your conference and you're win. If you're an at large, congratulations. If you don't get picked, cry all you want, you had your chance to get in.
Apr 6, 2011 4:50pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:52 PM
sleeper;734718 wrote:f you don't get picked, cry all you want, you had your chance to get in.

Yet when that happens to TCU, people actually do cry. And you think that'll stop with a playoff? haha no..
Apr 6, 2011 4:52pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:53 PM
SportsAndLady;734714 wrote:So what you're saying...if my Bobcats go undefeated next year, and Ohio State goes undefeated..and there's only one spot available, you wouldn't complain if OU received the spot over OSU? I mean OU is D1 and so are their opponents, why shouldn't they be able to compete for a D1 title with 12 victories (over absolutely no good competition) and 0 losses?

That's why I'm saying there needs to be a playoff! It's hard to determine who is actually better unless you play it on the field.
A committee can be biased. They can make mistakes. They can put a deserving team on the wrong side of the tournament. That team is then unable to win a national championship...because of a human mistake. Nope, lets not look at that injustice, lets focus on a college football team going undefeated with maybe 3 good teams on their schedule and being left out over 2 other undefeated teams with much better competition on their schedule. Don't you see the inconsistencies there?
A committee can be biased and they can make mistakes, sure. But win your conference tournament and you're in, GUARANTEED, you don't have the right to complain.
Apr 6, 2011 4:53pm
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Apr 6, 2011 4:54 PM
SportsAndLady;734720 wrote:Yet when that happens to TCU, people actually do cry. And you think that'll stop with a playoff? haha no..

TCU won their conference right? They are in. If you can't even be the best team in your conference, how can you be the best team in the country?
Apr 6, 2011 4:54pm
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Apr 6, 2011 5:00 PM
sleeper;734722 wrote:That's why I'm saying there needs to be a playoff! It's hard to determine who is actually better unless you play it on the field.

And I agree with that..and I agree that a playoff would be great. But no matter what system is in place, there will be flaws. You talked about at-large teams in your playoff, there will be flaws in deciding those teams, just like there is flaws in deciding the top 2 for the BCSNC game. My only point, is that the BCS does a good job in determining the 2 best teams..disagree with it, that's fine..just how I feel.
Apr 6, 2011 5:00pm
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Apr 6, 2011 5:18 PM
SportsAndLady;734733 wrote:And I agree with that..and I agree that a playoff would be great. But no matter what system is in place, there will be flaws. You talked about at-large teams in your playoff, there will be flaws in deciding those teams, just like there is flaws in deciding the top 2 for the BCSNC game. My only point, is that the BCS does a good job in determining the 2 best teams..disagree with it, that's fine..just how I feel.

Then make it 11 teams, 11 conferences. Make all conferences determine their representative however they'd like, and send them to the playoff. No at-larges, no complaining. Problem solved.
Apr 6, 2011 5:18pm
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Apr 6, 2011 5:47 PM
sleeper;734744 wrote:Then make it 11 teams, 11 conferences. Make all conferences determine their representative however they'd like, and send them to the playoff. No at-larges, no complaining. Problem solved.

So what is Notre Dame going to do? How will the independents obtain a spot in the playoffs?

What if the two best teams in the country are from the same conference?

How will institutions react to having to play a potential 16 game season?

What is the point of having the winner of the Sun Belt conference play the winner of the SEC?

What is the point in being in a top conference? Ohio State should just join the MAC, so they can be in the playoff every year, right?

How will seedings be appropriated?

How will this effect OOC scheduling? Is Ohio State going to schedule 4 FCS teams every year for their OOC schedule?
Apr 6, 2011 5:47pm
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Apr 6, 2011 5:48 PM
And perhaps the most important question...how are you going to get the presidents of the universities making millions of dollars off the current BCS system to okay this playoff system?
Apr 6, 2011 5:48pm
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Apr 6, 2011 5:56 PM
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:So what is Notre Dame going to do? How will the independents obtain a spot in the playoffs?

Notre Dame needs to join a conference if they would like a shot at the title. And seriously, does ND have a chance in hell at winning anything? They can't even win a BCS bowl, how the hell are they suppose to beat anyone good?
What if the two best teams in the country are from the same conference?
Looks like the regular season took care of that. No one cares about #2.
How will institutions react to having to play a potential 16 game season?
Seems that every other division besides D1 handles it just fine.
What is the point of having the winner of the Sun Belt conference play the winner of the SEC?
The same point of having a #16 seed play a #1 seed.
What is the point in being in a top conference? Ohio State should just join the MAC, so they can be in the playoff every year, right?
Ohio State would make more money in the Big Ten and if you start seeing teams like Ohio State actually join the MAC, it'll just make the MAC much stronger. It'll be good for balance.
How will seedings be appropriated?
"Unbiased computer rankings" similar to the system we have now, except that it'll be just for seeding purposes.
How will this effect OOC scheduling? Is Ohio State going to schedule 4 FCS teams every year for their OOC schedule?
They can do whatever they want. Unlikely they would schedule 4 FCS teams as they want more cash from the regular season and they would want to boost their potential seeding in the tournament.
And perhaps the most important question...how are you going to get the presidents of the universities making millions of dollars off the current BCS system to okay this playoff system?
Ask Cuban.
Apr 6, 2011 5:56pm
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Apr 6, 2011 5:58 PM
SportsAndLady;734659 wrote:Because only <15% of teams achieve an at-large bid.
Right, so the rest better have a good regular season!
SportsAndLady;734659 wrote: Because the national champions don't need a good regular season (unlike cff)
Hmm, so the national champion can be 10-22 in the regular season?
SportsAndLady;734659 wrote:
Because to win a title, you don't need to be good during the reg. season, you need to just get hot at the right time--post-regular season
But you first have to have a good regular season to get into the tournament.
Apr 6, 2011 5:58pm
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Apr 6, 2011 6:01 PM
SportsAndLady;734759 wrote:And perhaps the most important question...how are you going to get the presidents of the universities making millions of dollars off the current BCS system to okay this playoff system?
I honestly don't think it should be up to the presidents. You want to play NCAA FBS football, you play by the rules established. That's how the other football divisions and other sports work.
Apr 6, 2011 6:01pm
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Apr 6, 2011 6:07 PM
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:So what is Notre Dame going to do? How will the independents obtain a spot in the playoffs?
Be ranked in the top 8 (or 16 or whatever).
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:
What if the two best teams in the country are from the same conference?
They most likely would have played already or had a conference championship to settle that. Otherwise, who cares? If they are, they are.
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:
How will institutions react to having to play a potential 16 game season?
They can handle it. Poor excuse. And only 2 teams would play 16. And my guess is they would be more than willing if it meant a shot at the NC.
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:
What is the point of having the winner of the Sun Belt conference play the winner of the SEC?
How do you know that Sun Belt team isn't better than the SEC team?
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:
What is the point in being in a top conference? Ohio State should just join the MAC, so they can be in the playoff every year, right?
I assume you are assuming conference champions make the playoff? First, the MAC shouldn't get an automatic bid. 2nd, even they don't get an automatic, OSU would not rank high enough by playing in the MAC.
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:
How will seedings be appropriated?
Final season ranking, either by current BCS or another similar method.
SportsAndLady;734758 wrote:How will this effect OOC scheduling? Is Ohio State going to schedule 4 FCS teams every year for their OOC schedule?
Again, you still have to be ranked in the top 8 at the end of the season. Would OSU playing 4 FCS schools get them in the top 8? Nope.
Apr 6, 2011 6:07pm
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Apr 6, 2011 6:16 PM
You guys act like I'm some anti-playoff person lol I'm not. I'm just saying there will be issues no matter what happens. Why not just keep the current system? It's been very good at determining the two best teams.
Apr 6, 2011 6:16pm