Buford looked a lot like a 1st rounder during the stretch run, but in the Kentucky game, he sort of got exposed. I think he'll probably return but I could be wrong.

centralbucksfan;727064 wrote:Who cares if he does or doesn't. It hasn't hurt them the past two years. If you have it, and they are ready...its a great option. If not, and your still winning...who cares. Its certainly nice to have, but a bit overrated as well IMO.

Its obviously not a strength if he doesnt use it is all im saying. Thats why im curious as to why you guys keep bringing up depth as a selling point on this team knowing your head coach doesnt make use of it

Has anyone heard for sure Buford announced he is returning? Someone on my FB just posted "I find it absolutely hilarious that william Buford felt he needed to announce that he was returning for his senior year...."as if!"

Check that... I am retarded! Guess I should have read the first page and I would have seen the article posted from the Toledo Blade. Anyway that's good news for Buckeye fans!

Hb31187;727169 wrote:Its obviously not a strength if he doesnt use it is all im saying. Thats why im curious as to why you guys keep bringing up depth as a selling point on this team knowing your head coach doesnt make use of it

I think IF he had it, he would use it. I don't think he has had the depth since being at OSU. And I think if you really look across the country, most coaches go with the guys that got them there more then people realize. Give me 2/3 guys on a bench..and I'd be happy. After that, there really isn't enough minutes. People were complaininga about Buford and saying Matta should have pulled him vs UK. Which IMO, is a ridiculous thought. You don't just do something like that after 35 games to a guy that carried OSU pretty damn well down the stretch.
Again, I think if you have the depth, AND the coach is confident in using it...than it is a bonus. Will OSU have that next year? Based on the guys he had this year, Sibert, Smith and Weatherspoon...Matta should have more depth. Will they improve enough to EARN time? We'll see.....

Matta will use it if he thinks he has it. He went 9 deep in 2006/07
and 8/9 deep in 2008/09

Good assessment, Prescott. It was encouraging to hear Satch Sullinger's comments on Wall to Wall Sports last night. He made the point that Jared played primarily the 5 position out of necessity and expects his son to play more at the 4 with Amir Williams coming in next year. He says Jared needs to lose weight and focus more on his face up game. I know Matta is a big fan of the 4 outside/1 big man lineup and it has obviously been effective over the last two seasons (63-11, Two Big Ten Regular Season and Tourney Championships), but it has also been a liability I think in our two NCAA tourney losses. I hope Williams (or Ravenal) and Sully are on the court together quite a bit more than Lauderdale and Sullinger were this year.

I do not think it is possible to have better leadership and team chemistry than this past team had. But I expect Sullinger and Craft to pick up the slack for the departure of three of the classiest, hardest working players I have seen in an OSU uniform (Lighty, Diebler, and Lauderdale). Craft and Sullinger seem way more composed and mature than you would think possible for a pair of Freshmen.

As far as the bench is concerned, I would have loved to have seen Deshaun Thomas get some more consistent minutes and Sibert actually be part of the rotation even if it was only 5-10 minutes a game, but it never materialized. It's hard to knock Matta too much because we did win 34 of 37 games and the three losses were nothing to be ashamed of. But let's not forget that Matta used his bench pretty liberally in his first 3-4 seasons at OSU, even with the Conley-Oden team. I think he had no choice to stick with his starters two seasons ago as we possibly had the worst bench talent in the entire country (PJ Hill, Simmons, and Madsen).

I still think Sullinger, Craft, and Buford will play 30-36 minutes every game, but I hope that he rotates the other two positions quite a bit amongst 5-6 players (Amir Williams, Thomas, Sibert, Shannon Scott, Ravenal, Smith Jr., etc.). As long as major injuries and/or transfers happen, Matta will have 8 scholarship players watching the starters play from the bench. He has only had 4 or 5 of those the last couple of years and I think we can all agree that the bench a couple of years ago was MAC level talent at best. I really think we will see an 8-9 man rotation next year, even though it's hard to imagine given how the past two seasons have played out.

I don't think I will ever enjoy watching a team more than this last one, but there is definitely reason to be optimistic for next season. Hopefully we can get over the Sweet 16 hump and we will playing in New Orleans the first weekend in April. The talent is there to do it.

I'm really hopin' to see alot of the pick and roll or pick and pop game w/ Craft an Sully next year. Sully can definitely step out and hit the 15-18 footer consistently.

Also, Bob Baptist has mentioned playing Craft off the ball some w/ Scott running the point. That could be interesting.

mward31;727218 wrote:As far as the bench is concerned, I would have loved to have seen Deshaun Thomas get some more consistent minutes and Sibert actually be part of the rotation even if it was only 5-10 minutes a game, but it never materialized. It's hard to knock Matta too much because we did win 34 of 37 games and the three losses were nothing to be ashamed of. But let's not forget that Matta used his bench pretty liberally in his first 3-4 seasons at OSU, even with the Conley-Oden team. I think he had no choice to stick with his starters two seasons ago as we possibly had the worst bench talent in the entire country (PJ Hill, Simmons, and Madsen).

Good assessment on the bench. There is an old saying "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it". I think last season he really had no choice but to go with a 6 man rotation. He tried giving Hill and Simmons decent minutes, but they just weren't getting the job done. I believe it was the West Virginia game where Ohio State got up Big early (8-0) but once the reserve got in the game, the lead slipped away and Ohio State lost a close one. If I am correct, it was after that game Matta started using the bench less. And he had some success with it. The Bucks ended up winning 15 of their next 16 games. So he carried over that short rotation mindset into this year and again had success. But just like just about everything in life, you have to adjust. Because there is also a saying "Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expect different results." Bouncing out of the tournament two straight season in the Sweet 16 makes you think about changing the system up. Thad probably realizes that though the team have had success in the regular season with a short rotation, he had better success when he had a big (2007 went 9 deep). So I fully expect him to use his bench a lot in 2011-2012. Then again I can't read his mind lol.

If Sullinger comes back (and no I won't believe he's coming back until the deadline passes, he's a top 5 pick this year and probably won't be next year), he definitely needs to lose some weight and get quicker. He really needs to play the 4, but he will have to be able to guard the smaller 4s he will see playing college ball. He also needs a face up game and some post moves other than lowering his shoulder and throwing it up at the rim. Hopefully this Williams kid is worth a damn at center. Craft needs to get better and finding open guys off the dribble, especially in the paint. Hopefully a couple of these guys can shoot it from the outside and also get to the rim off the bounce and finish. And Matta needs to get all the young kids to defend.

mallymal614;727408 wrote:Good assessment on the bench. There is an old saying "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it". I think last season he really had no choice but to go with a 6 man rotation. He tried giving Hill and Simmons decent minutes, but they just weren't getting the job done. I believe it was the West Virginia game where Ohio State got up Big early (8-0) but once the reserve got in the game, the lead slipped away and Ohio State lost a close one. If I am correct, it was after that game Matta started using the bench less. And he had some success with it. The Bucks ended up winning 15 of their next 16 games. So he carried over that short rotation mindset into this year and again had success. But just like just about everything in life, you have to adjust. Because there is also a saying "Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expect different results." Bouncing out of the tournament two straight season in the Sweet 16 makes you think about changing the system up. Thad probably realizes that though the team have had success in the regular season with a short rotation, he had better success when he had a big (2007 went 9 deep). So I fully expect him to use his bench a lot in 2011-2012. Then again I can't read his mind lol.

I wouldn't read too much into Matta using the bench because OSU lost in the sweet 16 two years in a row. I think the bench had little to do with that to be honest. Thomas improved during the season, but the UK game was a defensive struggle/slugfest. When Thomas was in there, he immediately gave up points. Points were difficult to come buy, and Matta couldn't afford defensive breakdowns in this game. Thus, Thomas back to the bench. It was as simple as that. Again, I think if OSU has a bench, and if these guys buy into the system, they will get some time. I mean, if coaches make "changes" because of A SINGLE loss in the NCAA...then it looks as though 67 coaches will be making some changes. No #1 or #2 seeds make it to Final Four. Using the bench or not had no affect on the UK game. Bottom line, OSU shot poorly in the game. Some due to UK defense, some due to poor shot selection, some just didn't fall. I mean shit, how many easy layup bunnies did they miss? A handful..something they didn't do all season long. It was frustrating to watch....but It happens. Matta will play his best 5 next season. If there are more than 5..they will EARN their minutes.

Whats this depth for next year? Who is better than Thomas this year (who couldnt see the floor)? I mean, Thomas was a top 5 kid and didnt get used, so why are the freshman this year going to automatically be used. Matta has always had deep talent and he just doesnt seem to use it.

Last year OSU lost Turner and got better...they also had 4 key pieces who were going to be upper-classmen. This year they lose 3 SRs, and only return 1 player who will be an upper-classmen. The progression and impact of Lighty, and Diebler had a lot to do with their age and experience. I just dont see a team with only 1 upper-classman running through the Big Ten and most big games with ease to the tune of 34-2 and the #1 overall seed.

Laley23;727457 wrote:Whats this depth for next year? Who is better than Thomas this year (who couldnt see the floor)? I mean, Thomas was a top 5 kid and didnt get used, so why are the freshman this year going to automatically be used. Matta has always had deep talent and he just doesnt seem to use it.

Last year OSU lost Turner and got better...they also had 4 key pieces who were going to be upper-classmen. This year they lose 3 SRs, and only return 1 player who will be an upper-classmen. The progression and impact of Lighty, and Diebler had a lot to do with their age and experience. I just dont see a team with only 1 upper-classman running through the Big Ten and most big games with ease to the tune of 34-2 and the #1 overall seed.

I think Sully and Craft are mature beyond their years, I don't worry about them playing like underclassmen next year.

Also, it might be worth the price of admission to watch Weatherspoon and Thompson have a dunk contest!

Excellent post Prescott and MWard.
I believe Sully will have a Blake Griffin (OU) type of soph year. That will go a long way to winning another Big Ten and being ranked in the top 5 next season.

Here is my list of Bucks from #1 on down according to team value/ talent.
1)Sully
2)Buford- maybe 17ppg
3)Craft
4)Thomas- maybe 15ppg
5)A.Williams -stud center
6)Sibert - breakout soph year
7)S.Scott- Maybe Craft like frosh year
8)L.Ross
9)Smith Jr.
10)S.Thompson
I think all 10 of these guys will get playing time. Hopefully Matta redshirts one or two of the others. It will pay off for the Bucks 2-3 years from now.

MrOH1O

RT @Satch_Sully: My son going pro? News to me... I wish him luck!<--- I know man! He didn't even tell us! We had to find out on here!!!

lol

MrOH1O is JJ

Laley23;727457 wrote:Matta has always had deep talent and he just doesnt seem to use it.

Such a false notion
2004/05 8
2005/06 9
2006/07 9
2007/08 7
2008/09 8
2009/10 6
2010/11 7

Averages close to 8 at OSU

Matta used 8 at Xavier all 3 years


That's 30% of his coaching career. I'd say that him going 8+ deep is more likely rather than 6 or 7

Ok, I just spent some time watching Amir Williams highlights, and I really hope I'm wrong, but he doesn't look ready to be a contributor @ OSU.

Laley23;727457 wrote:. Matta has always had deep talent and he just doesnt seem to use it.

.

Always? He had to deal with limited scholarships due to O'Brien shit for a few years. I respect your opinions as much as anyone, but this above statement is simply not true. And even at that,who are you, me or anyone to determine what the actual depth is or if they are actually good enough to play? Is Thomas talented? Absolutely. But he is/was horrid on defense. Matta was not going to take a chance with him in certain games where he knew Thomas would be exposed defensively. UK knew this, as soon as Thomas came in, they went right at him and scored. Talent doesn't always equate to playing time. D. Cook was another example. Extremely talented. But didn't buy into the system, didn't want to play defense so his time was limited. Say what you will, but Matta doesn't just play guys because of talent. They have to earn their time.

Just as important as the depth the incoming guys add is the LENGTH. 6-9, 6-9, 6-8 (although the Ross kid looks like he weights about 170 pounds) ... the one I'm unsure of is Ravenal, as far as talent, but the Buckeyes will have some serious depth and, instead of Sully and four guards, it'll be a different story in 11-12.
You know Craft will be working like crazy on his shooting, Sully will have another yr of OSU strength and conditioning, Spoon appears to have his head on right, Buford, when he's on, is a tough cover ... Sibert and Smith will definitely want to be a bigger part ...
Lord, OSU is now a basketball school. lol
But in all seriousness, I agree with what was said above: I enjoyed watching this year's team more than any in awhile (although they've all been fine under Thad) ... the chemistry, unselfishness (97% of the time), and class, in particular the seniors ... and the four departing players all take diplomas with them.

centralbucksfan;727574 wrote:Always? He had to deal with limited scholarships due to O'Brien shit for a few years. I respect your opinions as much as anyone, but this above statement is simply not true. And even at that,who are you, me or anyone to determine what the actual depth is or if they are actually good enough to play? Is Thomas talented? Absolutely. But he is/was horrid on defense. Matta was not going to take a chance with him in certain games where he knew Thomas would be exposed defensively. UK knew this, as soon as Thomas came in, they went right at him and scored. Talent doesn't always equate to playing time. D. Cook was another example. Extremely talented. But didn't buy into the system, didn't want to play defense so his time was limited. Say what you will, but Matta doesn't just play guys because of talent. They have to earn their time.

Yet the freshman next year are going to play and help the team....makes sense. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. Why are you all assuming these freshmen are even going. To see the court next season?

LJ;727499 wrote:Such a false notion
2004/05 8
2005/06 9
2006/07 9
2007/08 7
2008/09 8
2009/10 6
2010/11 7

Averages close to 8 at OSU

Matta used 8 at Xavier all 3 years


That's 30% of his coaching career. I'd say that him going 8+ deep is more likely rather than 6 or 7

I'm on an iPad, but id like to see the average minutes versus teams not considered shit. Cant look it up easy at all from this thing.

Laley23;727737 wrote:I'm on an iPad, but id like to see the average minutes versus teams not considered shit. Cant look it up easy at all from this thing.

Those were the number of players who played at least 8ish minutes in almost every game

Laley23;727736 wrote:Yet the freshman next year are going to play and help the team....makes sense. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. Why are you all assuming these freshmen are even going. To see the court next season?

I am not. I am just saying its a possibility. I mean, we are talking about a couple of McDonalds All Americans. Another who was ranked the #1 player in the country as a 10th grader. I think its pretty much a done deal, that at least 3 of the incoming will see significant time. Then add in the players on the current roster like Sibert and Smith Jr. They have a years experience, along with the next few months to get better. They will both see time IMO. All of that is why I believe OSU will in fact be deeper and Matta will play more players. Its not like this year or last when he had upper classman vs freshman.

se-alum;727501 wrote:Ok, I just spent some time watching Amir Williams highlights, and I really hope I'm wrong, but he doesn't look ready to be a contributor @ OSU.

I hate watching highlight videos of high school big men. For the most part, they all seem like they are lazy on defense and just try to block every shot and on offense all they do is dunk. From what i can gather from reading reports, watching highlights and watching some of his state game last weekend is that he is long, athletic and can run the floor. Its to be seen if he has any post moves and how he defends players his own size, questions that pretty much come with all young post players.

Also, I expect Shannon Scott to be our best PG next year. I know people love Craft and what he did this year, but from what I have seen, Scott is going to be a real player from the start.