DeyDurkie5;699037 wrote:how do we know that these bible guys actually went to heaven? I mean if followers of "god" don't get shown the afterlife, what makes you think you guys will? Please don't come at me with a bible verse(skyhook)

Faith. You would be amazed at how many times Faith affects your life DeyDurkie5 if you really thought about it.

Skyhook79;699097 wrote:Faith. You would be amazed at how many times Faith affects your life DeyDurkie5 if you really thought about it.

so you have no real conclusive evidence that these bible followers of jesus went to heaven, yet you guys say they went like you actually know. That makes no sense whatsoever

DeyDurkie5;699277 wrote:so you have no real conclusive evidence that these bible followers of jesus went to heaven, yet you guys say they went like you actually know. That makes no sense whatsoever

You, my friend, know nothing of the bible! It's obvious they aren't in heaven yet!
Acts 24:15
1 Corinthians 15:51 - 54
Duh!!
Death & decomposition ain't got nothing on god!

If you need a visual, it'll go something like this...
[video=youtube;sOnqjkJTMaA][/video]

Bigred1995;699283 wrote:You, my friend, know nothing of the bible! It's obvious they aren't in heaven yet!
Acts 24:15
1 Corinthians 15:51 - 54
Duh!!
Death & decomposition ain't got nothing on god!

If you need a visual, it'll go something like this...
[video=youtube;sOnqjkJTMaA][/video]

yeah, that didn't prove shit. I ask again, why claim all these guys went to heaven when they died yet you have no real conclusive evidence they did? Seems silly to me to act like you are right, when in reality you have no idea.

password;699033 wrote:Since some of you claim to be smart on here, I do need some advice from you regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

I don't claim to be smart, I don't thing, but I'm willing to take a crack.

password;699033 wrote:1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Should we pass a law that states that all women must say if they are menstrating or not when they enter a room?

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? (HUmmm...if the policeman does it, is he not working on the sabbath, and should be delt a death blow too?)

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by
Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyesterblend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy
considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can
help.

Most of these, of course, are tongue-in-cheek. However, they basically deal with Mosaic and Levitical Law.

Much of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are simply record of the Hebrew people's legal documentation from this time. So, how does one tell which applies today and which does not? I'd say there are two ways:

1. Is it mentioned outside the Levitical Law?
Much of what is mentioned in the Levitical Law (no peeing in the camp, no clothing made of a cotton-polyester blend, etc.) is never mentioned elsewhere.

2. Is it addressed with transcendent language?
If I tell my son, "Son, don't eat a cookie," that can be legitimately interpreted as, "Son, don't eat a cookie right now."

However, if I tell my son, "I am greatly upset with the eating of cookies," that language transcends context a lot more, and thus, cannot easily be interpreted with "right now" language.

There are other questions one can ask to determine if it was contextual or not. Did an author of a later book, who would have been very well versed in Levitical and Mosaic Laws, write something that assumes that the Law was for another time?

Now, in the spirit of having a little fun:

1. Because Canadians are worthless

2. Well, Jesus was sold for 30 pieces of silver. At that time, a single such piece would have been the wage for about three days of work, give or take.

Going by minimum wage ($7.25 I believe), when I extrapolate that out, it comes to $5,220.

So, you're working with a ceiling of about $5,219.99.

3. If they've been pissy for a couple days, just count on it. If they're pissy all the time, then just stay away as a rule, but for more reasons than being on the rag.

4. Nah, but you might want to talk to the homeowners' association. (By the way, such a sacrifice was only supposed to be done at the temple, so your neighbors wouldn't have had a "beef" with it ... pardon the pun. )

5. Wait a day, and then talk to Uncle Guido.

6. Compromise. Lesbians and bearded clams. Losing on both fronts.

7. Lasik or death. I get paid on referrals. Hit me up.

8. It doesn't say to kill them. Just point and laugh.

9. Today, aren't most footballs made of cow skin?

10. No, it must be the whole town. It's a great team-building exercise, and it strengthens the sense of community.

DeyDurkie5;699037 wrote:how do we know that these bible guys actually went to heaven? I mean if followers of "god" don't get shown the afterlife, what makes you think you guys will? Please don't come at me with a bible verse(skyhook)

Maybe they don't. Maybe what is described as "heaven" is something other than what we understand it to be.

I honestly hope "hell" or "sheol" is something other than what it's commonly perceived to be.

password;699058 wrote:So are you saying that ancient laws were wrong?

A "law" in and of itself cannot be "wrong" unless it conflicts with another law, really. Laws are what is permitted and what is not.

To answer the question, however, most of these laws were written to a specific group of people at a specific place in time. Even to borrow from one of your earlier questions, Leviticus 19, where it talks about hair trimming, if you go to the beginning of the contextual section, verses 1 and 2 say:

The LORD said to Moses, “Speak to the entire assembly of Israel ...

Beyond that come the commands, but as we are not "the assembly of Israel" (as that assembly doesn't exist in the same respect), this at the very least was not written directly to those outside that group.

password;699058 wrote:Is not the bible a book of ancient laws and beliefs that are still followed today by millions of people looking for someone to tell them how to live.

Actually, by and large, that's not at all what it is. The Bible is written, holistically, as a historical narrative. Any section from where people derive any "this is how we should live" instructions were written as "So-and-so told the people this is how they should live" language.

That's actually something I find a little fascinating about the Bible. If you read it through, beginning to end, the book never tells people what to do. It tells of someone telling someone else what to do, what is good, what they like, etc. It was not written to speak specifically to a timeless reader. Quite frankly, that's one of the biggest reasons I don't think it was written to control people. It's written as a historical narrative, and narratives don't tell people to do things.

password;699058 wrote:A question to think about, When an athiest dies what happens to them and where do they go? We have all been told that if you beleive in god you will go to heaven when you die.

I hope, with every ounce of my being, that they just cease to exist, exactly as they believe they will. Compared to the alternative view of "hell," that sounds peaceful.

Skyhook79;699097 wrote:Faith. You would be amazed at how many times Faith affects your life DeyDurkie5 if you really thought about it.

Eh, he's asking how to "know" something. Not how it will effect him.

The truth is, we are convinced that they went to heaven because the Bible says they did, and we believe the Bible is the inspiration of man by God.

DeyDurkie5;699277 wrote:so you have no real conclusive evidence that these bible followers of jesus went to heaven, yet you guys say they went like you actually know. That makes no sense whatsoever

I have no empirical evidence to suggested. I fully admit that.

DeyDurkie5;699296 wrote:yeah, that didn't prove shit. I ask again, why claim all these guys went to heaven when they died yet you have no real conclusive evidence they did? Seems silly to me to act like you are right, when in reality you have no idea.

He was being facetious. I don't believe BigRed1995 believes in anything non-physical.

not to mention what password posted is some of the dumbest shit in the world..what if i don't have 20/20 vision, will god still accept me? LOL

O-Trap;699313 wrote:I have no empirical evidence to suggested. I fully admit that.



He was being facetious. I don't believe BigRed1995 believes in anything non-physical.

ahh okay fair enough...and the fact you don't have evidence to this doesn't raise an alarm in your head?

DeyDurkie5;699320 wrote:not to mention what password posted is some of the dumbest shit in the world..what if i don't have 20/20 vision, will god still accept me? LOL

...that depends on your acceptance of Jesus Christ.

DeyDurkie5;699321 wrote:ahh okay fair enough...and the fact you don't have evidence to this doesn't raise an alarm in your head?

Empiricism isn't the only kind of reason I accept. The believe stems from other beliefs which, at their base, have what I consider to be a logical base.

Think of it like a giant series of If/Then statements, where each subsequent "If" is merely the previous statement's "Then."

But as I said, I reserve the right to be wrong somewhere along the way.

Con_Alma;699330 wrote:...that depends on your acceptance of Jesus Christ.

dumb

O-Trap;699313 wrote:I have no empirical evidence to suggested. I fully admit that.



He was being facetious. I don't believe BigRed1995 believes in anything non-physical.

That may not be entirely true...are Neutrinos considered non-physical?

From this scripture we have not advanced far enough in the medical field if you consider that god was performing major surgery from the begining of time and we still can't cure a common cold.Was god performing research on cloning when he created a woman with only a rib from a man.Someone please explain this one to me.

"And the Lord God said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet [a counterpart, fully compatible and complementary in every way] for him' . . . . And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof: and the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, 'This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man'" (Genesis 2:18, 21-23).

Bigred1995;699336 wrote:That may not be entirely true...are Neutrinos considered non-physical?

Admittedly, I don't know much about them. However, Wikipedia suggests that they have a non-zero rest mass.

So I would still think they'd be physical, since their mass can be quantified.

What is and isn't part of the physical universe ... can open ... worms everywhere.

DeyDurkie5;699335 wrote:dumb

Maybe but then again it being dumb or not doesn't change the determinant of God's acceptance of one into Heaven.

DeyDurkie5;699320 wrote:not to mention what password posted is some of the dumbest shit in the world..what if i don't have 20/20 vision, will god still accept me? LOL

I don't think your vision is the main reason that god will not accept your calls.I am pretty sure that after he reads all your post on this site, he will show you a sign when it is your time and you have to take that last vacation."NO VACANCY"

O-Trap;699343 wrote:Admittedly, I don't know much about them. However, Wikipedia suggests that they have a non-zero rest mass.

So I would still think they'd be physical, since their mass can be quantified.

What is and isn't part of the physical universe ... can open ... worms everywhere.

I guess anything that contains any sort of particle would be considered physical, and I can't currently think of anything that do not have some sort of particle, so I guess your statement is true!
Wait! LOVE!! I believe in love! Does that count?

Bigred1995;699349 wrote:I guess anything that contains any sort of particle would be considered physical, and I can't currently think of anything that do not have some sort of particle, so I guess your statement is true!
Wait! LOVE!! I believe in love! Does that count?

Funny you should ask.

"And now these three remain: faith,hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Cor 13:13.

It is also the greatest Commandment but I do not want to get DeyDurkie too upset with me so I will not post the Bible verse.

btw; DeyDurkie, do you ever make plans to do something like weeks or days in advance?

O-Trap;698917 wrote:When I wasn't a believer, this was the biggest reason I didn't like many Christians. I could live with what I perceived as their lack of a logical worldview. However, even if I tried to be kind in our discussion, it seemed that many were self-righteous, arrogant pricks about our disagreement.

I rarely saw much "speaking [of] the truth in love."

Well, that may be true but that happens just as much if not more from the non-believers. I understand as a Christian we should hold ourselves to the higher standard and be different than the world in this but a lot depends on one's own Christian maturity level and understanding of God's word. Humans are flawed, for sure, otherwise we wouldn't have needed a Savior and God's grace. It's a process and God prunes us along the way showing us and disciplining us through circumstances so that we may bear a sweeter,richer fruit.

It also reminds of the bumper sticker i saw the other day:

"God's Grace has already calculated my stupidity into my Destiny"

Bigred1995;699349 wrote:I guess anything that contains any sort of particle would be considered physical, and I can't currently think of anything that do not have some sort of particle, so I guess your statement is true!
Wait! LOVE!! I believe in love! Does that count?

Nah. It's just a chemical process in the brain.

Plus, how could you believe in love? There is no empirical evidence of its existence!!!

Here's a fun one: Do you believe in the inherency of "good" and "bad?"

Skyhook79;699394 wrote:Well, that may be true but that happens just as much if not more from the non-believers.

Yes, but it doesn't make them seem hypocritical.

Skyhook79;699394 wrote:I understand as a Christian we should hold ourselves to the higher standard and be different than the world in this but a lot depends on one's own Christian maturity level and understanding of God's word.

Of course, but one of the primary characteristics of a Christian, even the defining characteristic according to the New Testament, is that of love. When that foundation is not visible, it's pretty easy to assume that there is nothin built on top of it.

Skyhook79;699394 wrote:Humans are flawed, for sure, otherwise we wouldn't have needed a Savior and God's grace. It's a process and God prunes us along the way showing us and disciplining us through circumstances so that we may bear a sweeter,richer fruit.

I don't disagree. Our fallenness is no justification for our actions, though. If our primary purpose is to be ambassadors on earth, then we ought to act like it. If we rarely act like it, the world has every reason to believe we're lying.

Skyhook79;699394 wrote:It also reminds of the bumper sticker i saw the other day:

"God's Grace has already calculated my stupidity into my Destiny"

I like that.

"Yes, but it doesn't make them seem hypocritical."


Well...it does when they chastise Christian for it.



"I don't disagree. Our fallenness is no justification for our actions, though. If our primary purpose is to be ambassadors on earth, then we ought to act like it. If we rarely act like it, the world has every reason to believe we're lying."


Not trying to justify it and I agree however Christians are going to mess up,not do the right thing all the time. Repenting and asking for Forgiveness are also part of the process.
John Piper gave a very good sermon on Salvation and our path to being Christians. Essentially he says "sometimes we get it backwards, we think we have to change our ways our hearts before we submit ourselves to Christ and desire to lead a life as a true follower of Christ. Instead, Jesus says "come as you are" and then he will work with us to remove and peel away those things, one by one that separate us from God's will and his plan for us. I would be more than happy to share the link to his sermon, it is a 4 min clip if you are interested.


I apologize in advance for not knowing how to use the quote feature.

Skyhook79;699394 wrote:Well, that may be true but that happens just as much if not more from the non-believers. I understand as a Christian we should hold ourselves to the higher standard and be different than the world in this but a lot depends on one's own Christian maturity level and understanding of God's word. Humans are flawed, for sure, otherwise we wouldn't have needed a Savior and God's grace. It's a process and God prunes us along the way showing us and disciplining us through circumstances so that we may bear a sweeter,richer fruit.

It also reminds of the bumper sticker i saw the other day:

"God's Grace has already calculated my stupidity into my Destiny"

lol humans are flawed because no one is perfect. It has nothing to do with god guiding them, if that was true, the crackhead on the street that believes in jesus is being guided to a terrible life.

DeyDurkie5;699517 wrote:lol humans are flawed because no one is perfect. It has nothing to do with god guiding them, if that was true, the crackhead on the street that believes in jesus is being guided to a terrible life.

here I'll answer it for you skyhook..

"and jesus said everyone is flawed, follow me and you are shown the light" Bullshit 13:13

deydurkie, you just need faith and the bible and jesus will guide you.

DeyDurkie5;699517 wrote:lol humans are flawed because no one is perfect. It has nothing to do with god guiding them, if that was true, the crackhead on the street that believes in jesus is being guided to a terrible life.

or he is being led on a path to redemption...

Skyhook79;699533 wrote:or he is being led on a path to redemption...

I can't even drub up a response to this