Gblock;691791 wrote:in the private sector maybe but it doesnt translate the same to schools...parts of the analogy work but not exactly the same. its not that i dont get what your saying

Explain why it won't work? I've dealt with a public Union before, and I just don't see it.

LJ;691793 wrote:Explain why it won't work? I've dealt with a public Union before, and I just don't see it.

in a school or a business?

centralbucksfan;691756 wrote:I find it comical, that the best arguement we hear against unions, is that it protects bad teachers. What % of teacher do you suspect are bad? Do you not think there are bad workers in the private sector? Bad doctors? Bad dentists? Bad bankers? They are protected as well, don't kid yourself. But in reality, we are talking about a SMALL percentage here. So lets not exaggerate something that really means nothing in the big picture here. And if this is the single biggest arguement against unions, its a very weak one at that.
Again, this union busting is nothing but an agenda by the REP against the DEMS. That was PROVEN the other day with the prank call to Gov. Walker...he was in fact, EXPOSED for what he is. And KaSUCK is right by his side. All one in the same.

The biggest argument is we can't afford it. Who do you think pays teachers? If I'm dissatisfied with a private sector vendor I can fire them. I can't not pay taxes.

Gblock;691794 wrote:in a school or a business?

AFGE, they had preschool teachers, who I heard horror stories about. But both essentially.

LJ;691735 wrote:So you are saying "fuck the taxpayers, fuck the state that is losing money I'm gonna get MINE"

Real nice. So much for your Greater Good huh? Congrats on forcing the state into bankruptcy, and I hope you enjoy all of your layoffs due to your Union.

LOL. Oh LJ. That is a poor tactic of debate.

Me: "I'm OK with abortion, if the woman is raped."
Other: "So, you don't think life is important? You're OK with murder? You're a murderer then!?"

LJ;691796 wrote:AFGE, they had preschool teachers, who I heard horror stories about. But both essentially.

in business you set a price and they can afford it or not...if your business works then you make money if not you go out of business obviously. kids have to go to school and be educated so the school isnt going anywhere anytime soon. according to posters here you are starting the negotiation by saying that you cant afford to pay me what you pay me now. so my options are to take less pay or get a new job. how is that negotiating? im like three years from the top of the pay scale so odds are im done getting raises till i retire at 65...no way this bill would change that... i already said im willing to make concessions the fact that people are so staunch that i have to leave the union to do it doesnt make sense. i dont trust any politicians repub or dems and i feel this bill will turn schools into pawns of the govt whether you're talking local or state govt. i think their crooked and dont trust them. i dont have any reason to trust them, i dont see them do anything right hardly

ernest_t_bass;691806 wrote:LOL. Oh LJ. That is a poor tactic of debate.

Me: "I'm OK with abortion, if the woman is raped."
Other: "So, you don't think life is important? You're OK with murder? You're a murderer then!?"

Not really, but ok.

LJ;691814 wrote:Not really, but ok.

How is that not the same thing? We say one thing, you say, "OH, so you say fuck the taxpayers, well OK then!"

LJ;691735 wrote:So you are saying "fuck the taxpayers, fuck the state that is losing money I'm gonna get MINE"

Real nice. So much for your Greater Good huh? Congrats on forcing the state into bankruptcy, and I hope you enjoy all of your layoffs due to your Union.

No, LJ, its about the children. Do you not care about the children? If we don't pay teachers, they will not try and our children will suffer. That's what this bill is REALLY about, the children.

Gblock;691808 wrote:in business you set a price and they can afford it or not...if your business works then you make money if not you go out of business obviously. kids have to go to school and be educated so the school isnt going anywhere anytime soon. according to posters here you are starting the negotiation by saying that you cant afford to pay me what you pay me now. so my options are to take less pay or get a new job. how is that negotiating? im like three years from the top of the pay scale so odds are im done getting raises till i retire at 65...no way this bill would change that... i already said im willing to make concessions the fact that people are so staunch that i have to leave the union to do it doesnt make sense. i dont trust any politicians repub or dems and i feel this bill will turn schools into pawns of the govt whether you're talking local or state govt. i think their crooked and dont trust them. i dont have any reason to trust them, i dont see them do anything right hardly

And the gov't only has so much money to give. Business and Gov't both have budgets.

ernest_t_bass;691817 wrote:How is that not the same thing? We say one thing, you say, "OH, so you say fuck the taxpayers, well OK then!"

Because that is what he said

"obviously our situation is not going to be as good so why the suprise that we wouldnt like to self negotiate. that is really not fair...most of you would feel the exact same way.... and this is more about me personally....i already spent years with low salary"

Who pays his salary? taxpayers
Who is he mainly looking out for? merely himself.

Fuck the taxpayers, I'm gonna get mine.

were the taxpayers worried about me when i was making 24000 doing the same job?? where were you then..


also ill say it again i pay just as much taxes as you, probably more

i dont see anyone else here taking part of their check and donating it to balance the budget.

Gblock;691823 wrote:were the taxpayers worried about me when i was making 24000 doing the same job?? where were you then..


also ill say it again i pay just as much taxes as you, probably more

more? doubtful.

EVERYONE starts out at a lower salary. So what?

Gblock;691723 wrote:look back through the posts...no positive experiences posted about self promotion...only gripes about benefits, salary and hours worked...plenty of posts saying that we should look forward to negotiate as an indivdual and also posts painting us as scared

Who has said something bad about self promotion? I've had a great experience with self promotion, talked myself into a 30% raise when moving from one company to another.

Gblock;691734 wrote:well then why is it hard to understand that i wouldnt want to get into all that.. our schools arent in it to make a profit they arent businesses we are here to educate...i dont want to have to get a night job to have to live...i just look thru posts where were compared to petulant children etc....obviously our situation is not going to be as good so why the suprise that we wouldnt like to self negotiate. that is really not fair...most of you would feel the exact same way.... and this is more about me personally....i already spent years with low salary...i couldve used this bill 15 years ago

this post is the epitome of what's wrong currently...you think you're entitled to something just because of time served. Guess what? Seniority D.N.E. Merit. And to sit here and tell us you don't give a shit about the state going bankrupt because you don't want to have to work extra or take a cut is ridiculous. I fucking hope you don't teach math.

and how do you not get the concept that it is beneficial for you if you're above avg to do your own negotiating? You're basically admitting you suck as a teacher or you're stupid (meaning you probably suck as a teacher)

LJ;691830 wrote:more? doubtful.

EVERYONE starts out at a lower salary. So what?

Nevermind... i could probably have typed so what to every person on here who said comments about what they make or things about their job in the heavenly ground of the "private sector" SMH....HHP at its finest

centralbucksfan;691756 wrote:I find it comical, that the best arguement we hear against unions, is that it protects bad teachers. What % of teacher do you suspect are bad? Do you not think there are bad workers in the private sector? Bad doctors? Bad dentists? Bad bankers? They are protected as well, don't kid yourself. But in reality, we are talking about a SMALL percentage here. So lets not exaggerate something that really means nothing in the big picture here. And if this is the single biggest arguement against unions, its a very weak one at that.
Again, this union busting is nothing but an agenda by the REP against the DEMS. That was PROVEN the other day with the prank call to Gov. Walker...he was in fact, EXPOSED for what he is. And KaSUCK is right by his side. All one in the same.

If you think bad employees in a non-union private sector job are "protected" against being fired like those in unions, you are way out of touch with reality.

Gblock;691842 wrote:Nevermind... i could probably have typed so what to every person on here who said comments about what they make or things about their job in the heavenly ground of the "private sector" SMH....HHP at its finest

you're in your own little world.

derek bomar;691835 wrote:this post is the epitome of what's wrong currently...you think you're entitled to something just because of time served. Guess what? Seniority D.N.E. Merit. And to sit here and tell us you don't give a shit about the state going bankrupt because you don't want to have to work extra or take a cut is ridiculous. I fucking hope you don't teach math.

thats not why the state is going bankrupt

derek bomar;691841 wrote:and how do you not get the concept that it is beneficial for you if you're above avg to do your own negotiating? You're basically admitting you suck as a teacher or you're stupid (meaning you probably suck as a teacher)

if you had to guess what would you estimate that the most a the best teachers in ohio could make in a year negotiating alone what would you say?

Gblock;691783 wrote:again why do i have to be ostracized or portrayed as being scared? it is more beneficial to me to do it collectively. as you and so many others have pointed out in the "Real World" where you live it sucks to bargain by yourself. and again if the bill is to save money by definition we would be paid less or it wouldnt save any money. secondly saving money is a long way from as you say balancing the budget.

It sucks to bargin for yourself if you suck as a worker, if you are a good worker it is GREAT to bargain for yourself, period. Learn the difference.

Gblock;691852 wrote:if you had to guess what would you estimate that the most a the best teachers in ohio could make in a year negotiating alone what would you say?

~$100k in an affluent neighborhood and teaches AP classes and such

jmog;691854 wrote:It sucks to bargin for yourself if you suck as a worker, if you are a good worker it is GREAT to bargain for yourself, period. Learn the difference.

well there must be no good workers on here because everyone pretty much sounds like it sucks....who has it worked for on any of these posts