hmmmmmm.....not surprising most of these, teachers number 2
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/the-worst-paying-college_n_566518.html#s88543&title=undefined

Not suprised.

I really don't believe that. I know so many teachers who make $60,000+ a year.

Tobias Fünke;645526 wrote:I really don't believe that. I know so many teachers who make $60,000+ a year.

I don't believe it either...we have been talking about it here in the office.

We have been looking at some of the smaller states and what they pay (South Dakota, Montana, North Dakota, Wyoming, for example). There's no way that is right. They say $33,000 for elementary education degrees...everything we've seen is that those states are roughly $6,000 more with those degrees. Keep in mind, it is elementary education, so don't lump all teachers into it. The figures we've seen is elementary education pays better than middle school...and a lot more than preschool, can't say about high school (don't remember).

Some figures for example, California averages $61,000 for elementary education teachers and Minnesota averages $51,000 for elementary education. Texas averages $47,000, Nebraska averages $36,000, North Dakota is around $39,000, South Dakota is around $36,000ish, Kansas averages $39,000, and Arkansas averages $40,000. There's no way that many other states would bring down this average of these states to $33,000 -- also...these averages are just for teachers in general, elementary education has paid better in EVERY state than the average salaries.

Elementary teachers are paid the same as all teachers in every district I have worked for or been acquainted with

My father is a pastor (third worst in pay) and he got his undergrad degree in theatre (sixth worst) so he's screwed twice, and my mother is an elementary schools teacher (second worst). It's amazing they were able to put my sister and I though college.

Honestly though, most pastors are extremely underpaid. My father works full time as a pastor (which means about 40 hours a week at the church, that doesn't include all of the church work he does in his free time such as hospital visits, counseling, meetings, community outreach, etc.). He is the senior pastor and his church employs a full time youth pastor and secretary, a part time worship pastor, children's ministry director, preschool director, after-school director, and several part time teachers. He had to go through three years of full-time graduate work in seminary to become a pastor, and he also went through three more years to get his doctorate. So my father has a master and doctorate, has been in his field for 25 years, and works in a large church and barely makes $50,000 annually.

Working in ministry may not be the lowest paying job out there, but since it was the only one on the list that requires a masters degree, it definitely has the worst return on investment in any career field.

As a teacher, I was thinking about this, and comparing my profession to a Doctor. I want my doctor to make six digits b/c not everyone can be a doctor. I think ANYONE can be a teacher. Now, that doesn't mean ANYONE can be a good teacher, but I think ANYONE can be a teacher. I'm OK with having a low paying job (up front) b/c I enjoy what I do. Teachers don't deserve to get paid as much as doctors.

ernest_t_bass;645624 wrote: Teachers don't deserve to get paid as much as doctors.

They don't.

I would argue that pastors get paid just fine. This is coming from a Bible/Theology: Pre-Seminary major.

In my hometown, my pastor received nearly $60,000, a parsonage, utilities paid (I believe), and retirement. The average income of the county is $33,000. The county is consistently in the top 5 poorest counties in Ohio, top 5 in unemployment, and I could go on. So a pastor is getting almost twice the average income of the county...not much "sacrifice" there.

There is a reason why churches come under so much scrutiny. You listed them all, senior pastor, youth pastor, secretary, worship pastor, children's ministry director, preschool director, after-school director, and part-time teachers...that doesn't even list all the random jobs that are created within churches for people to do. With all of those, you are racking up well over $200,000 just for staffing. That is awful, in my opinion. People are supposed to "fund" a person's livelihood of "service" by "tithing." When in fact, tithing is only mentioned once in the New Testament -- and nothing about people "supposed" to tithe either. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some pastors that do a lot, like you mentioned (hospital visits, counseling, meetings, etc.). But there are much better ways to do it, in my opinion (and also of several others). Why should one person be in charge of visiting someone in the hospital, or for community outreach, or for learning? I thought it was the ekklesia? There's a reason why there are references to the body being made up of several parts, the hand, the foot, etc. The pastor isn't the heart or brain of the ekklesia like we've made it. Everyone who calls themselves a believer should be responsible for visiting the sick, feeding the poor, teaching others, etc.

Ministry doesn't actually require a Master's degree either. It will if one enters the United Methodist charges, for example. But there are MANY churches; I'd say well over 75-80% of churches probably have ministers that barely have a Bachelor's degree. And why would they do that? There's nothing that says ANYONE who is a believer needs to be this "well-educated," $100,000+ in student loans, person to lead "the flock." There's a reason why the Catholic church and the United Methodist church has taken hits...and that's the requirements they put on their ministers for this education. And rightfully so.

Dont' EVEN get me started about teacher's salaries. OMG. Look at the previous thread about the fantastic salaries teacher's make that are public record.

Tobias Fünke;645526 wrote:I really don't believe that. I know so many teachers who make $60,000+ a year.

I think the numbers listed in the link are entry level averages.

Someone can't willingly go into a profession knowing what it pays and then whine about not being paid enough. Pretty much a text-book example of supply and demand. Obviously if you went to 4 years of school for it the pay must be sufficient.

ernest_t_bass;645624 wrote:As a teacher, I was thinking about this, and comparing my profession to a Doctor. I want my doctor to make six digits b/c not everyone can be a doctor. I think ANYONE can be a teacher. Now, that doesn't mean ANYONE can be a good teacher, but I think ANYONE can be a teacher. I'm OK with having a low paying job (up front) b/c I enjoy what I do. Teachers don't deserve to get paid as much as doctors.

I was a Teacher for 7 year after college .....
Special Education: Teaching Students with Behavioral/Emotional Disorders
Started with the Elementary kids, developed a program incorporationg classroom learning and physical events.
Was ask then to develop a Jr. High program based on the same concept.... loved that job and the kids.... some of the great kids ever but some of the most messed up parent you ever want to meet.

Yes that right people belly the educator

When I was taking graduate classes at OSU, some of them were PhD/MD classes. The MD students needed to get a 60% or 65% to pass and the PhD students needed an 83%. I always thought that was strange. PhD needs to know 18% - 23% more, be qualified to teach MD classes and get paid 1/4 to 1/3 of a doctors salary.

gut;645724 wrote:Someone can't willingly go into a profession knowing what it pays and then whine about not being paid enough.

I completely agree. I am an elementary teacher (am well below national average), but I knew this going into it. I do it because I love what I do, not for the pay.

ernest_t_bass;645624 wrote:As a teacher, I was thinking about this, and comparing my profession to a Doctor. I want my doctor to make six digits b/c not everyone can be a doctor. I think ANYONE can be a teacher. Now, that doesn't mean ANYONE can be a good teacher, but I think ANYONE can be a teacher. I'm OK with having a low paying job (up front) b/c I enjoy what I do. Teachers don't deserve to get paid as much as doctors.

I've stated it on the politics forum, but I think math and science teachers should be paid more than their counterparts. Math and science are simply more important.

Moms been a teacher for close to 20 years. Makes 26k a year.

Luckily my father is a partner at a Law Firm, so she never really cared about how much she makes because she loves what she does and love the vacation time. But teachers are certainly not paid well, despite what some people posted on that other thread. There are outliers to every profession.

mella;645788 wrote:When I was taking graduate classes at OSU, some of them were PhD/MD classes. The MD students needed to get a 60% or 65% to pass and the PhD students needed an 83%. I always thought that was strange. PhD needs to know 18% - 23% more, be qualified to teach MD classes and get paid 1/4 to 1/3 of a doctors salary.

It was the same in my MBA program (not OSU). But I'm not sure they get 1/4 to 1/3 the salary of a doctor. Professors who teach graduate/PhD classes do quite well with tenure, anywhere from $250-$500k, not counting money they get from books/texts they've written or published research (and many also do some consulting on the side). Plus, they're not getting bent over with malpractice insurance.

Damn it Gut, why didn't you tell me this 15 years ago!?

Wife and I both have degrees in that list.

And we both have incomes lower than any average on there.

Awesome.

that elementary teacher was pretty hot.

Laley23;645807 wrote:Moms been a teacher for close to 20 years. Makes 26k a year.

Luckily my father is a partner at a Law Firm, so she never really cared about how much she makes because she loves what she does and love the vacation time. But teachers are certainly not paid well, despite what some people posted on that other thread. There are outliers to every profession.

Your mom is the outlier. $10 says your mom also works for a small private religious affiliated school, which always get paid less.

"Working in ministry may not be the lowest paying job out there, but since it was the only one on the list that requires a masters degree, it definitely has the worst return on investment in any career field."



I couldn't disagree more.

mella;645813 wrote:Damn it Gut, why didn't you tell me this 15 years ago!?

Looks like I was about on point.....OSU is a decent business school (maybe better than its medical program?) but only the top B-schools are paying that to their profs. Still, you see the PhD's teaching the MD programs are well-compensated. I don't know if some of these are actually practicing physicians at a teaching hospital, though.
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/databases/salaries/ohio-state-university-2010

Wow, check out UM law school! I guess if you want top minds to teach at top schools you have to pay them pretty darn well to get them to leave/avoid the private sector:
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/databases/salaries/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor-2009

sleeper;645848 wrote:Your mom is the outlier. $10 says your mom also works for a small private religious affiliated school, which always get paid less.

This has to be correct. When I applied to college my Dad had about 20 years in, his salary was just under $40K (I know because of the FAFSA), and that was close to 20 years ago - and this not an incredibly high paying school district. I don't see how any public school teacher makes $26K in 2011 with 20 years experience, unless there are some seriously mitigating circumstances.

"Wow, check out UM law school! I guess if you want top minds to teach at top schools you have to pay them pretty darn well to get them to leave/avoid the private sector:
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/datab...ann-arbor-2009"

Read that earlier, complete scam how well paid law professors are. Some of those salaries are absolutely shocking, and the administrative assistants get paid more than many paralegals at V-5 firms. You know who is paying for this? Current students with outrageous loans and eventually us taxpayers when they start to default. There is no *$&%ing way in holy hell that most of these professors would get anything near this in the private sector. The education bubble is simply outrageous right now.