KnightRyder;767690 wrote: then packaging them as AAA-rated investments

Banks didn't rate the securities, they found the loophole where if you had enough prime mortgages you could toss some shitters in there and the rating agencies would still give it a AAA rating. This was not done by people like Kasich, it was more or less backroom analysts in NYC who where paid to bundle the cheapest cost/highest return/highest rating packages they could. People like Kasich merely just believed the products that they were selling were flawless, they never cared as to what the truth was on what was contained in them. It was definitely duping people by omission, but not as devious as people want to make it out to be on the shoulders as people such as Kasich.

LJ;769794 wrote:Banks didn't rate the securities, they found the loophole where if you had enough prime mortgages you could toss some shitters in there and the rating agencies would still give it a AAA rating. This was not done by people like Kasich, it was more or less backroom analysts in NYC who where paid to bundle the cheapest cost/highest return/highest rating packages they could. People like Kasich merely just believed the products that they were selling were flawless, they never cared as to what the truth was on what was contained in them. It was definitely duping people by omission, but not as devious as people want to make it out to be on the shoulders as people such as Kasich.

So you are saying Kasich was too stupid to know they were junk? I think we can agree on this one for a change

I love the continuing attempt to tie Kasich to Lehman is some sinister way.

It just isn't there, folks.

It's like blaming the guy at the local gas station for high gas prices -- that's about as much influence as Kasich had in the economic meltdown that happened.

You'd be better served to focus that anger on the REAL culprits: you know, the people in the Carter, Clinton and Bush administrations that continued to push subprime mortgages when people clearly couldn't afford them -- just so the pols could claim how they helped more Americans get into home ownership. It didn't matter that those folks never BELONGED in a home and couldn't afford it.

Then blame Congress for failing to oversee Freddie and Fannie, and blatantly lying and ignoring efforts under the Bush administration to reign in those two behemoths. Now we continue to be on the hook for billions of dollars in unstable mortgages that keep feeding a very, very unstable housing market...even under THIS administration.

You have to be beyond a partisan hack not to see where the real culprits are in all of this, how it started and then grew like a fat tick as the greediest fuckers from BOTH sides of aisle packaged and sold these mortgages in about as fraudulent a manner as possible, just to make their pound of flesh before the body began rotting from the inside out.

Bigdogg;770098 wrote:So you are saying Kasich was too stupid to know they were junk? I think we can agree on this one for a change

Never implied that nor said that. The regional and district branches are nothing more than sales and sales managers.

Wait, wat???

You say Kasich had some ties to Lehman Bros. or some such shenanigans?

Wow...that's the first I've heard of that....crazy shit right there. :rolleyes:



Seriously...someone is in danger of throwing a hip out of socket humping that old horse so hard.

LJ;770140 wrote:Never implied that nor said that. The regional and district branches are nothing more than sales and sales managers.

Right, wow you are sad and naive.

Bigdogg;771003 wrote:Right, wow you are sad and naive.

Sad and naive huh? Weren't you the one trying to say that 12,000 thousand is not 12,000,000? Are you now trying to tell me how regional sales offices with a company such as the defunct Lehman Brothers works? If you think that a managing director that made $600k in 2 years had ANY say in how these securities were put together, you are more clueless than I ever thought. Get your head out of your ass with your hatred for Kasich and take a look at the real world, you may learn something. Your partisan hackery and blind hatred without even understanding how things work is really starting to get old.

Originally Posted by Bigdogg
Bill Cunningham on WLW right now blasting Kasich.


Where was he and where were you and other liberal radicals when Dick Celeste and the union-machine democrats rammed collective bargaining down the throats of Ohioans in 1983, breaking the back of middle class taxpayers, and bankrupting the state, cities, and school districts in just 25 years?

Please, answer me that.




Still waiting for the answer.

LJ;771015 wrote:Sad and naive huh? Weren't you the one trying to say that 12,000 thousand is not 12,000,000? Are you now trying to tell me how regional sales offices with a company such as the defunct Lehman Brothers works? If you think that a managing director that made $600k in 2 years had ANY say in how these securities were put together, you are more clueless than I ever thought. Get your head out of your ass with your hatred for Kasich and take a look at the real world, you may learn something. Your partisan hackery and blind hatred without even understanding how things work is really starting to get old.

Meanwhile back home at the ranch, congratulations goes out to American Greetings’ CEO Zev Weiss. He got himself a 19% raise for getting Kasich to hand deliver a potentially $93.5 million over 15 years in State taxpayer assistance to “stay in Ohio” when it had pretty much already committed to do so before Kasich took office. This is a company that Governor Kasich says a City of Brooklyn's .5% payroll tax increase (a tax that is passed on to its employees) was going to force the company to move to Illinois to stay competitive despite its $883 million in profits last year.

Nobody said Kasich had anything to do with putting together those junk funds. You are truly clueless. I am not going to kiss your ass just because someone appointed you moderator of a discussion board. Go ahead and pout like you always do. The only thing that's getting old is watching you go off when someone dares to disagree with you. BOO WHO!


http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/american_greetings_ceo_zev_wei_1.html

Bigdogg;771294 wrote: Nobody said Kasich had anything to do with putting together those junk funds. You are truly clueless. I am not going to kiss your ass just because someone appointed you moderator of a discussion board. Go ahead and pout like you always do. The only thing that's getting old is watching you go off when someone dares to disagree with you. BOO WHO!


http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/american_greetings_ceo_zev_wei_1.html

Don't you mean "boo hoo"? I never asked you to do any ass kissing, just know WTF you are talking about instead of just slinging insults at posters when you don't like the facts. Kasich merely sold and managed people who were selling funds that were rated AAA by the worlds top rating agencies. The fraud was comitted at the top and in the backrooms. To say that Kasich had ANY knowledge of fraud or that he made his living be defrauding people is nothing but horseshit.

As for pouting? Tell me, what the fuck am I pouting about? the fact that you think you proved me wrong on something I was CLEARLY right about by posting an article that had nothing to do with what I said. Thinking you proved me wrong again when I am CLEARLY right by posting ANOTHER article that has nothing to do with what I said then personally attacking me?

Your partisan hackery is getting old.

Don't you think Kasich, like anyone else selling this particular bill of goods, had an obligation to know what the hell he was selling? I understand he wasn't the only one, and wasn't the architect of it, but the "I didn't know what it was" defense is a little lame, especially from one who is now the Governor of Ohio.

You better go ahead and indict the whole system then, louie because Kasich wasn't the only one duped by these crooks. When you've got so-called independent rating "experts" the whole world relies on telling you that things are okay -- you're supposed to not believe it?

If everyone did that for everything that takes some modicum of trust, not one minute of business would get done anywhere in the world.

Yet somehow Kasich is responsible?

SMH

stlouiedipalma;771472 wrote:Don't you think Kasich, like anyone else selling this particular bill of goods, had an obligation to know what the hell he was selling? I understand he wasn't the only one, and wasn't the architect of it, but the "I didn't know what it was" defense is a little lame, especially from one who is now the Governor of Ohio.

They don't know every mortgage bundled in a package. All they know is that it is a bundle of mortgages with x type of returns, x rating and POSSIBLY property addresses. That's all the information they would know. With a AAA rating, and possibly a sprinkling of subprimes, there was no reason to ever think that what would happen, did. The fact is, the people who were pulling the funny stuff had nothing to do with sales. He knew what the MBS were, he just didn't know "oh this one is a fraud, oh this one is ok" or "this one will survive, this one is gonna crash". To imply that he did is absolutely asinine.

LJ;771520 wrote:They don't know every mortgage bundled in a package. All they know is that it is a bundle of mortgages with x type of returns, x rating and POSSIBLY property addresses. That's all the information they would know. With a AAA rating, and possibly a sprinkling of subprimes, there was no reason to ever think that what would happen, did. The fact is, the people who were pulling the funny stuff had nothing to do with sales. He knew what the MBS were, he just didn't know "oh this one is a fraud, oh this one is ok" or "this one will survive, this one is gonna crash". To imply that he did is absolutely asinine.

I have lots of friends in the financial investment business. They are paid to know what investments they are selling, at least the ones are that I do business with. Ever heard of due diligence LJ? You are a joke, there where and still are lots of financial services company's that did not sell these types of investments.

LJ;771520 wrote:They don't know every mortgage bundled in a package. All they know is that it is a bundle of mortgages with x type of returns, x rating and POSSIBLY property addresses. That's all the information they would know. With a AAA rating, and possibly a sprinkling of subprimes, there was no reason to ever think that what would happen, did. The fact is, the people who were pulling the funny stuff had nothing to do with sales. He knew what the MBS were, he just didn't know "oh this one is a fraud, oh this one is ok" or "this one will survive, this one is gonna crash". To imply that he did is absolutely asinine.

LJ, master of the BS! It is easy to claim ignorance right LJ?

Bigdogg;771599 wrote:I have lots of friends in the financial investment business. They are paid to know what investments they are selling, at least the ones are that I do business with. Ever heard of due diligence LJ? You are a joke, there where and still are lots of financial services company's that did not sell these types of investments.

Your "friends in the financial investment business" probably don't even understand the games the analysts were playing with MBS. I don't think you do either. You are asking a car salesman to tell you what brand of wrench the guy who put the door together used. You are talking about a $300k man. A $300k man knows nothing. I explained what they knew about these products. They know what they are, they know the rating, they know where the mortgages came from, they know the returns. To think that they knew that the analyst that put the security together knew how to scam S&P and so on and was doing so on a regular basis is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I would like you to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage-backed_security#Securitization.

Here is an example of what info a managing director would have on a MBS

amt rate mat weight
Loan 1 $200,000 6.00% 300 22.22%
Loan 2 $400,000 6.25% 260 44.44%
Loan 3 $300,000 6.50% 280 33.33%
Overall Pool $900,000 WAC: 6.277% WAM: 275.55 100%

Then they have the rate of return over the past 2 years (since the return is IMPOSSIBLE to know in advance).
Then they would have the credit worthiness rating from some company like S&P giving it a AAA rating
Then they may know where the mortgages are located and so on.

Now tell me, with the information that is provided, what more due diligence do you want?
BTW call me a name one more time and you are getting banned from this thread for good.

Bigdogg;771606 wrote:LJ, master of the facts! I say it is easy to ignore reality.

FIFY

Last warning

LJ;771627 wrote:FIFY

Last warning

What name did I call you? Did I hurt your little feelings?

LJ;771623 wrote:Your "friends in the financial investment business" probably don't even understand the games the analysts were playing with MBS. I don't think you do either. You are asking a car salesman to tell you what brand of wrench the guy who put the door together used. You are talking about a $300k man. A $300k man knows nothing. I explained what they knew about these products. They know what they are, they know the rating, they know where the mortgages came from, they know the returns. To think that they knew that the analyst that put the security together knew how to scam S&P and so on and was doing so on a regular basis is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I would like you to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage-backed_security#Securitization.

Here is an example of what info a managing director would have on a MBS

amt rate mat weight
Loan 1 $200,000 6.00% 300 22.22%
Loan 2 $400,000 6.25% 260 44.44%
Loan 3 $300,000 6.50% 280 33.33%
Overall Pool $900,000 WAC: 6.277% WAM: 275.55 100%

Then they have the rate of return over the past 2 years (since the return is IMPOSSIBLE to know in advance).
Then they would have the credit worthiness rating from some company like S&P giving it a AAA rating
Then they may know where the mortgages are located and so on.

Now tell me, with the information that is provided, what more due diligence do you want?
BTW call me a name one more time and you are getting banned from this thread for good.

Unlike you, I don't claim to know everything about every topic on here. I can tell you that some investment firms were more aware of the risks then others and some firms did not recommend these types of investments. The firms that did, one of being the one our Governor use to work for, are now out of business. You can argue want you want, make fun of my investment friends or not. Fact is I personally followed their advice and did not invest in any of the high risk funds. Here is a good article that explains how banks bundled bad debit then bet against it. They made millions before it all came crashing down and yet nobody is in jail.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/banks-bundled-bad-debt-bet-against-it-and-won/

Bigdogg;771880 wrote:Unlike you, I don't claim to know everything about every topic on here.

If you don't like or respect my knowledge, don't post on topics that I happen to know a lot about. The mortgage crisis affected me in many ways, more than just securitized investments. My family has been in real estate for over 50 years. This crisis has affected myself and my family in not only security investments, but real property investments. This has been a daily part of my life for years now.

I can tell you that some investment firms were more aware of the risks then others and some firms did not recommend these types of investments. The firms that did, one of being the one our Governor use to work for, are now out of business. You can argue want you want, make fun of my investment friends or not. Fact is I personally followed their advice and did not invest in any of the high risk funds. Here is a good article that explains how banks bundled bad debit then bet against it. They made millions before it all came crashing down and yet nobody is in jail.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/banks-bundled-bad-debt-bet-against-it-and-won/

You notice that these were mainly institutional trades and that they were dealt with by traders?

Basically, you are trying to say that because Kasich worked for a company as someone who managed sales, a $300k man, he played some major role in a scheme to defraud the American public. It's laughable. Every vehicle has risk, some more than others. Good for you for staying away from high risk, but selling high risk investments is not a crime. What the TRADERS did is very shady, but someone who is merely selling consumer funds and so on... please.

LJ;771912 wrote:If you don't like or respect my knowledge, don't post on topics that I happen to know a lot about. The mortgage crisis affected me in many ways, more than just securitized investments. My family has been in real estate for over 50 years. This crisis has affected myself and my family in not only security investments, but real property investments. This has been a daily part of my life for years now.

You notice that these were mainly institutional trades and that they were dealt with by traders?

Basically, you are trying to say that because Kasich worked for a company as someone who managed sales, a $300k man, he played some major role in a scheme to defraud the American public. It's laughable. Every vehicle has risk, some more than others. Good for you for staying away from high risk, but selling high risk investments is not a crime. What the TRADERS did is very shady, but someone who is merely selling consumer funds and so on... please.

It's sad that you were duped by these shady people who committed fraud. With that being said those things that get mailed to you are called prospectus. Yes I do know that some firms did not fully reveal the default swaps and repackaging. The bottom line that I learned a long time ago is that if it sounds too good to be true, then it is not. One of my hobbies I work with a loan officer with a small local bank. He told me before all the shit hit the fan about all the fraud that was happening in the mortgage industry. If someone like him would have a clue you would think someone like John Kasich SHOULD have had an idea.

It is no secret that I have zero respect for Kasich and think he is as bad as Taft was. He has done nothing to change my mind and from the looks of the most recent polls, the majority of Ohioans agree. Call me a partisan hack if you want, but the clowns on here that blindly support him are in the minority. You might want to think about why this is true for a minute before you start labeling people.

Bigdogg;772788 wrote:Call me a partisan hack if you want, but the clowns on here that blindly support him are in the minority. You might want to think about why this is true for a minute before you start labeling people.

Pot meet kettle.

http://rethinkecon.org/2011/03/07/john-kasich-and-the-temple-of-state-pension-funds/

we actually could have lost more money than we did

Gblock;773865 wrote:http://rethinkecon.org/2011/03/07/john-kasich-and-the-temple-of-state-pension-funds/

we actually could have lost more money than we did

Sorry, but that is a junk website. Just on their first article on the front page alone they quoted a blatently false article from HuffPo about people being maced at the JP Morgan Shareholders meeting, which is not true at all.

LJ;773891 wrote:Sorry, but that is a junk website. Just on their first article on the front page alone they quoted a blatently false article from HuffPo about people being maced at the JP Morgan Shareholders meeting, which is not true at all.

You were there LJ? You are everywhere man! You ever work or being a "moderator" your job? By the way it's blatantly I know how misspelling drives you crazy. Looks like it IS true! But WHO cares!

http://www.moneynews.com/FinanceNews/JPMorganAnnualMeetingBringsMortgageApology/2011/05/17/id/396720