Cleveland Browns 2011 Super Awesome In-Season Thread

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BR1986FB

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Dec 15, 2011 7:47 AM
IggyPride00;1015197 wrote:92.3 the Fan has been just savaging Holmgren and Shurmur most of the day.

The media is pissed at Holmgren for trying to tell them they should be cheerleading Pat Shurmur instead of pointing out how in over his head he is.

I think Mike is frustrated because he knows the hire is a disaster, but admitting so this early would be a huge stain on his reputation so he is trying anything he can to quell dissent in the hopes Shurmur someone becomes Vince Lombardi.

Shurmur is a good whipping boy for him, because if he lets him go the fingers will start pointing at Holmgren. As long as the media can focus on Shurmur's ineptitude, they won't notice the man behind the curtain. Unfortunately for him, the level of incompetence emanating from the head coach is so great that it has started to make the media ask how in the world he could have ever thought Pat was ready to be a head coach.
That idiot Booms on 92.3 is dead set convinced that yesterday's presser sealed Holmgren and this regimes fate and that they will be gone after THIS season. Dude is such an idiot. Does he REALLY think that Randy Lerner, who doesn't give a shit about this franchise, is going to fire the whole group? Get serious...
Dec 15, 2011 7:47am
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OhioStatePride2003

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Dec 15, 2011 1:47 PM
BR1986FB;1015542 wrote:That idiot Booms on 92.3 is dead set convinced that yesterday's presser sealed Holmgren and this regimes fate and that they will be gone after THIS season. Dude is such an idiot. Does he REALLY think that Randy Lerner, who doesn't give a **** about this franchise, is going to fire the whole group? Get serious...
Like it was said earlier, Holmgren has a reputation to up-hold. I think that if he thought there was a clear rules violation, then he would've stepped-up and said something. Did the club mishandle the entire situation? Absolutely. Should someone be held accountable? Absolutely. But if they really followed protocol, then I don't know what else they can do. Even if the staff didn't see the hit originally, though, they surely seen it on the replay. It was one of those, "Wow hits", and when the whole stadium goes makes that distinct sound after a big hit, EVERYone's reaction is too look-up and see what they missed. I just don't know what to make of it all I guess.

Again, with the reputation remarks, I know he said that Shurmur will be around for a long time, but I don't think that's necessarily true. If he does care about his reputation, then Holmgren will follow the trend and move-on after 2-3 years of the "Shurmur experiment". Maybe he keeps him as strictly an offensive coordinator at some point? I mean, if Shurmur fails (which all indications are that he will, at this point anyway) then what team is going to want a guy that wasn't successful as an OC, and fell apart under pressure as a HC? Maybe that's when Holmgren steps down to the sidelines, and moves Patty up in the box to call plays?

Just throwin' that out there.
Dec 15, 2011 1:47pm
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Dec 15, 2011 1:52 PM
McCoy is out this sunday. No big loss.
Dec 15, 2011 1:52pm
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Dec 15, 2011 1:58 PM
Commander of Awesome;1015986 wrote:McCoy is out this sunday. No big loss.
Will be interesting to see how Wallace does. My guess is not any better.
Dec 15, 2011 1:58pm
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OhioStatePride2003

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Dec 15, 2011 2:00 PM
Pick6;1015998 wrote:Will be interesting to see how Wallace does. My guess is not any better.
Well I tell you I was more impressed with the one throw Wallace made against Pitt, than any of the throws McCoy made.
Dec 15, 2011 2:00pm
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Dec 15, 2011 2:02 PM
OhioStatePride2003;1016004 wrote:Well I tell you I was more impressed with the one throw Wallace made against Pitt, than any of the throws McCoy made.
Agree, I would have liked to see what would have happened had he stayed in. My guess is the Browns would have had a better shot to win.
Dec 15, 2011 2:02pm
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Dec 15, 2011 2:08 PM
Commander of Awesome;1015986 wrote:McCoy is out this sunday. No big loss.
Pick6;1015998 wrote:Will be interesting to see how Wallace does. My guess is not any better.
My prediction is we will see the endzone a few times this week......
Dec 15, 2011 2:08pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 15, 2011 2:16 PM
(From the article)

First, let me say this first and I’ve said it and written it many times, I want McCoy to succeed and be the Browns’ franchise quarterback. However, with that said, I feel and think most people who follow the Browns on a regular basis would tell you that at this very moment Wallace gives the Browns a better chance to win than does McCoy.

http://cle.scout.com/2/1139155.html

I said before if it was about "winning", Wallace would have been starting long ago but it's about "evaluating" this year.
Dec 15, 2011 2:16pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 15, 2011 2:19 PM
Ben Watson is likely done for the year with his 3rd concussion.
Dec 15, 2011 2:19pm
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Wooball

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Dec 15, 2011 2:28 PM
What happens if Wallace shows something and actually moves the offense? Obviously this has no chance of happening because our receivers are never open, the line doesn't block anyone and the running backs are a joke.
Dec 15, 2011 2:28pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 15, 2011 2:32 PM
Wooball;1016073 wrote:What happens if Wallace shows something and actually moves the offense? Obviously this has no chance of happening because our receivers are never open, the line doesn't block anyone and the running backs are a joke.
If by some miracle this happens and he lights it up I'd think the regime might be asking "why the f#ck didn't McCoy do this with the same weapons?" I think he gives them a better chance to win immediately but that's not saying much. I'm not expecting much on Sunday with the fact that Arizona still has an outside shot to make the playoffs.
Dec 15, 2011 2:32pm
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Dec 15, 2011 2:35 PM
BR1986FB;1016060 wrote:Ben Watson is likely done for the year with his 3rd concussion.
Sad, I hope someone breaks the news easy to Wes. That being said, not like we threw to him anyways.
Dec 15, 2011 2:35pm
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Sonofanump

Dec 15, 2011 3:10 PM
Wooball;1016073 wrote:What happens if Wallace shows something and actually moves the offense?
Hopefully that means that Wallace will be second on the depth chart next year and McCoy third.
Dec 15, 2011 3:10pm
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IggyPride00

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Dec 15, 2011 4:32 PM
I wish someone in the local media had the balls to ask Holmgren what exactly he has seen from his career thus far that he makes the claim that Pat Shurmur is a good coach who will be here for a long time.

This is his 3rd season calling plays in the NFL His Offenses have finished:

2009: 29th
2010: 26th
2011: 29th

Why this blind faith that the guy is going to wake up one morning and be Bill Fucking Walsh when in 3 seasons controlling an NFL offense he has yet to see his team finish above the bottom 15% of NFL offenses.

At what point does Holmgren put 2 and 2 together and realize the guy is not an NFL caliber offensive mind, and that he is nothing more than a position coach masquerading as a head coach.

I know this is Cleveland and all, but how many more seasons of piss poor Shurmur led offenses does Holmgren need to see to know what the fans already know about Shurmur's capabilities as an NFL coach.

Then again you could ask why in the world we hired an offensive coordinator with that poor a track record, so I guess we don't want to open that can of worms.
Dec 15, 2011 4:32pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 15, 2011 4:49 PM
Sonofanump;1016142 wrote:Hopefully that means that Wallace will be second on the depth chart next year and McCoy third.
After Holmgren's comments yesterday, Heckert's comments in his presser today and D'Qwell Jackson's inadvertent throwing him (Colt) under the bus, I do believe that it's very possible that the Pittsburgh game may be the last time we see McCoy under center.

Many people believe that Colt can't be "evaluated" because of all of the drops and the less than stellar O-Line play. Heckert disagreed and said you can and wouldn't commit to McCoy beyond this season. In October Heckert said "McCoy will be the starter in week 1 of 2012." Meanwhile he said "DQ Jackson will DEFINITELY be back."

DQ when asked about the concussion said "Seneca is in there now. It's too bad what happened to Colt but maybe we need a spark. Maybe we needed a change."

Thought it was interesting that a caller called in to 92.3 and said that his best friend was a Steelers fan who said he (Steelers fan) was at the game and "the Browns had receivers wide open all night....McCoy was just missing them."
Dec 15, 2011 4:49pm
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Dec 15, 2011 4:58 PM
BR1986FB;1016293 wrote:After Holmgren's comments yesterday, Heckert's comments in his presser today and D'Qwell Jackson's inadvertent throwing him (Colt) under the bus, I do believe that it's very possible that the Pittsburgh game may be the last time we see McCoy under center.

Many people believe that Colt can't be "evaluated" because of all of the drops and the less than stellar O-Line play. Heckert disagreed and said you can and wouldn't commit to McCoy beyond this season. In October Heckert said "McCoy will be the starter in week 1 of 2012." Meanwhile he said "DQ Jackson will DEFINITELY be back."

DQ when asked about the concussion said "Seneca is in there now. It's too bad what happened to Colt but maybe we need a spark. Maybe we needed a change."

Thought it was interesting that a caller called in to 92.3 and said that his best friend was a Steelers fan who said he (Steelers fan) was at the game and "the Browns had receivers wide open all night....McCoy was just missing them."
Just curious....why do you focus so much on why McCoy isnt the right guy, but not on anybody else on the offense?
Dec 15, 2011 4:58pm
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BR1986FB

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Dec 15, 2011 5:05 PM
Pick6;1016302 wrote:Just curious....why do you focus so much on why McCoy isnt the right guy, but not on anybody else on the offense?
Riddle me this...what happens IF they decide to bring in a Blackmon, another WR and upgraded O-Line, PASS on the franchise QB, and McCoy STILL sucks? Let's say they "improve" to 6-10. They still suck, they miss out on a QB in the 2012 draft and they PASS on a QB in one of the best QB draft classes in awhile. We have to SUFFER with McCoy's shitty play for TWO MORE years until another potential blue chip QB comes around? BITE THE BULLET on the QB in THIS draft.

And I'll turn the question around on you and the McCoy "apologists." If a rookie like Pinkston gets scrutinized and rookie Little 'sucks" because of his drops why do you guys give McCoy a pass?

I never said his O-Line is stellar or his offensive weapons immaculate but he has had PLENTY of chances to shine and he's failed in those opportunities.
Dec 15, 2011 5:05pm
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Dec 15, 2011 5:23 PM
BR1986FB;1016312 wrote:Riddle me this...what happens IF they decide to bring in a Blackmon, another WR and upgraded O-Line, PASS on the franchise QB, and McCoy STILL sucks? Let's say they "improve" to 6-10. They still suck, they miss out on a QB in the 2012 draft and they PASS on a QB in one of the best QB draft classes in awhile. We have to SUFFER with McCoy's shitty play for TWO MORE years until another potential blue chip QB comes around? BITE THE BULLET on the QB in THIS draft.

And I'll turn the question around on you and the McCoy "apologists." If a rookie like Pinkston gets scrutinized and rookie Little 'sucks" because of his drops why do you guys give McCoy a pass?

I never said his O-Line is stellar or his offensive weapons immaculate but he has had PLENTY of chances to shine and he's failed in those opportunities.
I'm just not a fan of drafting a QB high. Too many busts. These same people that say this is one of the best QB classes in a long time are the ones saying Jamarcus Russel, David Carr, etc are worthy of very high picks. If anything, I'd rather the Browns go out and trade for a proven back up.

You don't need an elite QB to win in the league. I believe surrounding an average player with a good supporting cast is greater than a great player with a shitty supporting cast. Look at Joe Flacco, Matt Hasselback, Mark Sanchez, Rex Grossman (lol), Trent Dilfer, etc, etc. All of these guys have had teams that won games because they had a great supporting cast.

In contrast, I have only seen one QB, Peyton Manning, win with a shitty overall team. Maybe you could throw Kurt Warner in there.
Dec 15, 2011 5:23pm
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Dec 15, 2011 5:50 PM
Pick6;1016329 wrote:I'm just not a fan of drafting a QB high. Too many busts. These same people that say this is one of the best QB classes in a long time are the ones saying Jamarcus Russel, David Carr, etc are worthy of very high picks. If anything, I'd rather the Browns go out and trade for a proven back up.
Are you kidding me..... Trade for a PROVEN BACKUP!?!?! Why in the hell would we do that when we have Wallace who is a proven backup?
Pick6;1016329 wrote:You don't need an elite QB to win in the league. I believe surrounding an average player with a good supporting cast is greater than a great player with a shitty supporting cast. Look at Joe Flacco, Matt Hasselback, Mark Sanchez, Rex Grossman (lol), Trent Dilfer, etc, etc. All of these guys have had teams that won games because they had a great supporting cast.
That is somewhat true....but look at those Qb's, they all have top 5 defenses a great offensive line and running game....we don't have any of that.
Dec 15, 2011 5:50pm
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Dec 15, 2011 5:54 PM
OQB;1016348 wrote:Are you kidding me..... Trade for a PROVEN BACKUP!?!?! Why in the hell would we do that when we have Wallace who is a proven backup?



That is somewhat true....but look at those Qb's, they all have top 5 defenses a great offensive line and running game....we don't have any of that.
A young back up who has potential (Matt Schaub and Kevin Kolb are examples), not a career back up like Wallace.

Obviously, if you build around your average QB like I suggested, the theoretical idea is that you will have a good defense, oline, and running game, all around team.
Dec 15, 2011 5:54pm
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Dec 15, 2011 6:24 PM
I understand your point pick 6, but thats the minority. Most QBs in the league were first round picks it seems. QBs are like bigs in the NBA, worth their weight in gold and there simply isn't enough of them so they're over valued.
Dec 15, 2011 6:24pm
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Dec 15, 2011 6:36 PM
Wooball;1016073 wrote:What happens if Wallace shows something and actually moves the offense? Obviously this has no chance of happening because our receivers are never open, the line doesn't block anyone and the running backs are a joke.
If that happens, then people can get off Shurmur's back and focus on Colt not being the future.
Dec 15, 2011 6:36pm
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Dec 15, 2011 6:52 PM
bases_loaded;1016379 wrote:If that happens, then people can get off Shurmur's back and focus on Colt not being the future.
Lets remember that if this were to happen, it would be against the Cardinals. Not the Steelers or Ravens.
Dec 15, 2011 6:52pm
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Crimson streak

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Dec 15, 2011 7:17 PM
Ok then what if he does it against either of them? Then we can definitely say colt isn't our guy
Dec 15, 2011 7:17pm
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Dec 15, 2011 7:24 PM
Crimson streak;1016406 wrote:Ok then what if he does it against either of them? Then we can definitely say colt isn't our guy
Then I'd agree. I've never said that Colt is or isn't the guy.
Dec 15, 2011 7:24pm