iclfan2;590087 wrote:Maybe when the mothers are home? My brother works in a terrible school district in SC (North Charleston) and if every kid there that deserved to be suspended was, they would have 0 kids in the school. The kids are late, say F you to the teachers, play on their cell phones, tell the teacher they wish they could hit them, need bribed to do homework, etc. The passing rate of whatever test it is that they take was 54%, and I think the graduation rate is around the same level. The problem with these kids is parenting at home, and the administration not sticking to actual punishments. These kids are literally the future criminals of America.

Does the school district do anything to ensure the parent/guardian is even aware of what goes on at school?

I know that the kids I work with are VERY serious about not getting in trouble, as their moms or grandmothers are unabashed about not sparing the rod, as it were. However, the school districts here are apathetic at best, and most teachers just don't care enough to even try to get the parents.

Our son is too young to discipline right now (4 mos.), but as he gets older, we don't plan to spank, though we do plan to discipline. The problem for many kids, I think, is not lack of spanking, but lack of discipline. I'm not opposed to spanking and don't intend to prevent anyone else from doing it, but far too often it's an impulse reaction or a cheap substitute for actually disciplining a kid with some thought. If applied correctly in certain situations, I think spanking can do a good deal of good. But it's often overused for the wrong reasons.

fan_from_texas;590172 wrote:Our son is too young to discipline right now (4 mos.), but as he gets older, we don't plan to spank, though we do plan to discipline. The problem for many kids, I think, is not lack of spanking, but lack of discipline. I'm not opposed to spanking and don't intend to prevent anyone else from doing it, but far too often it's an impulse reaction or a cheap substitute for actually disciplining a kid with some thought. If applied correctly in certain situations, I think spanking can do a good deal of good. But it's often overused for the wrong reasons.

What are some different ways you plan on disciplining? I truly am curious b/c my wife and I are at a crossroads right now with discipline.

ernest_t_bass;590205 wrote:What are some different ways you plan on disciplining? I truly am curious b/c my wife and I are at a crossroads right now with discipline.

Enforced timeouts. Taking away privileges. When they get older, grounding them.


Mrs. FFT is a marriage and family therapist who works a lot with kids. She's in a religious-based practice where virtually all of her clients practice spanking. But it's not like spanking suddenly fixes all the problem--it's fundamentally a lack of discipline, not the method of discipline, that makes the difference. A parent who spanks but applies inconsistent punishments and reactions tends to get worse behavior from kids than a parent who is firm but fair and doesn't spank but uses timeouts, etc.

It seems that many people think spanking is some panacea that will bring order back to society. Like I said, I'm not anti-spanking, I just generally don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be. Bad, lazy, temperamental parents who spank won't get better behaved kids than bad, lazy, temperamental parents who don't spank. They'll both end up with brats. The key is to apply consistent, reasonable discipline that the kid can understand. The actual method you follow isn't nearly as important as the fact that you're consistent and reasonable.

I was never against spanking but found it is less effective than grounding or removal of privledges (ie TV, cell phone, computer, sports participation). I guess I've been lucky because the three we've raised are turning out to be pretty good young men and women. Better behaved than I was with my own parents admittedly.

Another thing that we have learned through parenting is that we have to keep reminding ourselves that our 5 year old is FIVE YEARS OLD! We have to step back and realize some times that we almost expect her to act like an adult.

Tiernan;590238 wrote:I was never against spanking but found it is less effective than grounding or removal of privledges (ie TV, cell phone, computer, sports participation). I guess I've been lucky because the three we've raised are turning out to be pretty good young men and women. Better behaved than I was with my own parents admittedly.

I think that what I have found (in observing other kids, grown adults, etc.) is that the common denominator in people growing to be respectable adults is that they were shown love growing up. Part of that love is disciplining out of love... If that makes sense.

Wise words from a Ghey Unicorn...but sometimes its a crap shoot too. I have friends who have devoted tremendous love and understanding to kids that are the devil's spawn.

Tiernan;590254 wrote:Wise words from a Ghey Unicorn...but sometimes its a crap shoot too. I have friends who have devoted tremendous love and understanding to kids that are the devil's spawn.

Agreed. Good kids != good parents != good kids (and same on the negative side). Some kids are good or bad regardless of parenting.

Tiernan;590238 wrote:I was never against spanking but found it is less effective than grounding or removal of privledges (ie TV, cell phone, computer, sports participation). I guess I've been lucky because the three we've raised are turning out to be pretty good young men and women. Better behaved than I was with my own parents admittedly.

I agree with that too. When my son was younger, we did the spankings for discipline, obviously, a 4 or 5 year old isn't going to be bothered too much by taking things away. Now as he gets older, age 9, he rarely gets in trouble. But when he does, he gets things taken away from him instead of his ass busted. Seems to be working well.

I am not against spanking, we just never had to do much of it. I taught my children how to act right. It takes a little more effort but is worth it in the long run.

Tiernan;590238 wrote:I was never against spanking but found it is less effective than grounding or removal of privledges (ie TV, cell phone, computer, sports participation). I guess I've been lucky because the three we've raised are turning out to be pretty good young men and women. Better behaved than I was with my own parents admittedly.

THIS

We would occasionally have to whack the kids (bare hand ONLY on the butt) when they were in the 3- year old range - maybe a dozen times between the two kids I raised through that age. Beyond that age, I don't think spanking accomplishes very much - taking away privileges is usually much more effective and hurts worse. I yanked car privileges for one of the boys a week for the homecoming dance his junior year - you'd have honestly thought I was beating him with a whip to hear him yowling.

O-Trap - in our house the Playstation and computers were keep downstairs in the family room for just the reasons you mentioned - we went for the gulag effect.

ccrunner, you have to be careful, though. If the child is prone to ulcers, then it wouldn't be wise. Best to get that checked out before using it as a punishment.

CFF, sounds wise to me.

I never spanked my children. I did however grab them by the arm firmly letting them know that I could make things alot worse for them. After they understood that I mean business, my wife used me as the bad guy. "wait until your father gets home". I didn't like it at first, but I realized the time they spent dreading my arrival was much worse than any punishment I could have enforced. 90% of the time I never did anything to them.

I got my fathers belt across the ass and my mothers spatula across the knuckles quite frequently.

That being said, I learned real god damn fast that the spanking would hurt for five minutes, and then the pain would be gone and I could once again go about whatever I was doing.

FULL DISCLAIMER: I have no kids and do not plan on having any.

Parents, let me ask you a question. What happens if the behavior continues after you spank them? Where do you go from there? If you have to spank repeatedly, then clearly spanking isn't working.

When I was a kid this was the case, but I HATED time out. I would seriously take a beating any day of the week rather than have to sit in a chair facing the corner for 15 minutes.

I am very close with my dad, and I don't hold any "scarred childhood memories" over this, but I do recall on time that I yelled shut up at the TV and my dad who was in the other room thought I yelled it at my mom. When he walked into the room with belt in hand, I simply started to turn around, but he just swung and caught me right across the thigh. I had a mark for over a week. That being said, I also have my fathers occasional temper, and I know for sure that many people out there have a temper worse than his. As mentioned, too many people smack before they think.

As a teacher, I have seen several cases of over discipline. I even had a student tell me he doesn't care if lecture or yell at him since he always gets smacked around at home, why the hell would he care if I yelled at him? Too many people spank to often and in excessive amount. Those of you who have advocated socking your teenager are going way too far. What exactly are you trying to teach them? That violence is acceptable? If you think smacking a 15 year old actually works, you are A) abusive, and B) incorrect. Just last year I had students swapping stories about how their parents beat them the night before. Your logic of smacking a 15 year old may work on a four year old, but if you hit your teenager because they swear, it isn't going to stop them swearing.

Also, if you try and reason with a fist, children learn to use a fist. There are much better ways.

I am not against spanking if it is used by very responsible parent, but so few of those people exist. One, Two light smacks (obviously hard enough to get the point across), and as mentioned, hug them until they stop crying and talk with them before and after, tell them you love them, etc. And never out of anger.

By the way, that woman in the video is pathetic. She should be jailed, and I never could finish the video.

Oh thank God. I forced myself to finish the video to see if Doctor Phil made any comments. I am glad i did because the entire time I was thinking how in the hell the camera crew didn't jump in and stop her.

just throw them off the roof for all i care

This video STILL haunts me after several days now since I have watched it. I can't help but think how many times PREVIOUSLY this happened to this little boy. Auggggggggggggggh!!!!!!!

I know what you mean Scarlet Buckeye :mad:

Scarlet_Buckeye;592389 wrote:This video STILL haunts me after several days now since I have watched it. I can't help but think how many times PREVIOUSLY this happened to this little boy. Auggggggggggggggh!!!!!!!

This video is probably just a tiny snapshot into this boy's life.

Sad.

Scarlet_Buckeye;592389 wrote:This video STILL haunts me after several days now since I have watched it. I can't help but think how many times PREVIOUSLY this happened to this little boy. Auggggggggggggggh!!!!!!!

Sadly, I hear about much worse on a daily basis.

The other day, someone at a store in town read that a Methamphetamine lab had be found in an old fashion farmhouse in an adjoining county and asked this question, "Why didn't we have a drug problem when you and I were growing up?"

The other person replied, I had a drug problem when I was young: I was drug to church on Sunday mornings. I was drug to church for weddings and funerals. I was drug to family reunions and community social events no matter what the weather.

I was drug by my ears when I was disrespectful to adults. I was also drugged to the woodshed when I disobeyed my parents, told a lie, or brought home a bad report card, did not speak with respect, spoke ill of a teacher or preacher, or if I didn't put forth my best effort in everything that was asked of me.

I was drug to the kitchen sink to have my mouth washed out with soap if I uttered a profanity. I was drug out to pull weeds from my mothers flower garden. I was drug to the home of family, friends, and neighbors to help out some poor soul who had no one to mow the lawn, make a repair, or chop some firewood, and if my mother ever knew that I took a single dime as a tip for this kindness, she would have drugged me back to the woodshed.

Those drugs are still in my veins and they affect my behavior in everything I do, say, or think. They are stronger than cocaine, crack, or heroin; and if today's children had this kind of drug problem, this area and all America would be a much better place.