Big East Approves Expansion to Ten Teams

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Little Danny

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Nov 2, 2010 8:46 PM
You guys are forgetting that the Big East Network will be an all-sports channel. Basketball is huge in the northeast. Villanova packs over 25K a game to watch the Wildcats. They will pay to watch BE Network package which will include basketball. Football will only be part of the equation.
Nov 2, 2010 8:46pm
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sjmvsfscs08

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Nov 2, 2010 8:48 PM
And thus they wouldn't need to add Villanova, because they will already be apart of the Big East in basketball.
Nov 2, 2010 8:48pm
Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

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Nov 2, 2010 8:54 PM
^^^ Villanova is no shoo in. If Villanova does come in, it is for one of two reasons:

1) it is a compromise to the non-football playing schools and the old guard of the BE who do not want to see them go away from their northeastern roots. and/or
2) The BE would not have to share their revenue with an extra team, thus meaning more money in the other teams pockets.
Nov 2, 2010 8:54pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 9:03 PM
"Basketball is huge in the northeast."

Yes, the Knicks and the Celtics.

"Villanova packs over 25K a game to watch the Wildcats."

No they don't. Their on-campus stadium is smaller than Duke's. When they have really big games they play at the 76'ers stadium, but it is just a few games a year.
Nov 2, 2010 9:03pm
Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

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Nov 2, 2010 9:14 PM
Actually we were both wrong, I looked it up, VU only played half of their games at the Wachovia Center last year. That being said, it looked like they were able to sell out the joint most of the time. You are right though their on campus arena is small.

I know you live or have lived on the east coast. I am sure you are not going to argue with me that there is interest in Big East Basketball in the northeast. There is a reason why ESPN pays big bucks to showcase Syracuse, UCONN, Georgetown, ND (yes midwest but huge # of alums in the northeast), Villanova, etc.
Nov 2, 2010 9:14pm
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Speedofsand

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Nov 2, 2010 9:19 PM
UCF was turned down last time the Big East expanded. They now have new stadium and arena, Donnie Jones, Michael Jordan's boys and new shoes. They are in a top 20 media market, 56,000 students - 3rd in the nation. Travel is not an issue like it is for some other school locations. I don't know who else will join, but I'm pretty sure UCF will.
Nov 2, 2010 9:19pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 9:21 PM
There is interest, but it is a pro sports region. People that live in Ohio may follow the Reds, or Indians, or Browns or Bengals....but they breathe Ohio St. People in the northeast might follow BC, or 'Cuse or UConn, but they breathe Red Sox and Yankees. There is actually a pretty good (and typically smug) NYT article that explained this phenonmenon by Vescey a few years ago....of course it is because people in the Northeast are smarter to root for pro teams, and folks in the midwest and south are dumb to follow college teams.
Nov 2, 2010 9:21pm
Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

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Nov 2, 2010 9:23 PM
Speedofsand, are you in the Orlando area? Correct me if I am wrong but I have heard stories that UCF is #2 in Orlando behind the Gators as far as fan base and coverage. Also, is it true USF and the BE currently get very little media/coverage in Orlando also? I know the UCF guys on the BE Board constantly harp on this and state adding Orlando is penetrating into a market the Big East currently has little to no play in.
Nov 2, 2010 9:23pm
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krambman

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Nov 2, 2010 10:05 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;542752 wrote:" Villanova is a logical choice because they are in Philadelphia (4th largest TV market)."

There are maybe 58 people in the Philly market that care about Villanova. There isn't a market there, and to the extent there is one it is people watching PSU.

Villanova is already in the Big East for basketball. This is one of the reasons that Villanova would be a logical choice to be added if they make the jump to D-1A in football, since they are already a Big East school in basketball (and I assume everything else). Also, just like with the rational behind adding Rutgers to the Big Ten, it doesn't matter how many people watch the ream in the local market, the network would be on basic cable, so people would be paying for it whether they want it or not.
enigmaax;542751 wrote:I thought the remaining Big XII teams were pretty much anti-championship game anyway. Doubt that one is going to change because what is the point of a championship game when you can/do play a round robin?

Whether the members want a championship game or not they will agree to it if it will make them more money and if Texas wants it, because what Texas wants Texas gets. Also, you wouldn't play a round robin schedule if you had a championship game. With playing a nine game round robin conference schedule you lose a home game every other year and play one less non-conference game, which means one or two less gates a year where you make money for having a home game. Every team would increase revenue by playing seven or eight conference games (as opposed to nine) and by having a conference championship game. Again, it all comes down to money.
Nov 2, 2010 10:05pm
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jordo212000

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Nov 2, 2010 10:06 PM
I think some of you are wrong to focus on the basketball aspect of this. At this point all the conference expansion has focused on football first, and then they worry about basketball later.

Nebraska- sucks at basketball
Colorado- sucks at basketball
Utah- okay at basketball... some tradition there, but not lately.
Boise State (to Mtn West)- sucks at basketball

I know I am missing some of the other schools that have moved, but my point is that nobody really gives a crap about basketball in the grand scheme of things just because football revenues dwarf college basketball's. Of course I could be wrong, but that's just my $0.02
Nov 2, 2010 10:06pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 10:16 PM
"Also, just like with the rational behind adding Rutgers to the Big Ten, it doesn't matter how many people watch the ream in the local market, the network would be on basic cable, so people would be paying for it whether they want it or not."

That's assuming you believe that rationale. If the Big 10 muckety-mucks believe it, they can. I can tell you Rutgers doesn't have a following in that market, and if Cablevision can piss off Fox for the World Series, it won't hesitate to piss off the Big 10 network because the 14 people that care about Rutgers football don't get the game. It isn't a college football market, no more than Paris, Shanghai or Singapore. To the extent people want to watch games, they go to the bars that cater to the teams.
Nov 2, 2010 10:16pm
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fan_from_texas

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Nov 3, 2010 10:44 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;542920 wrote:"Also, just like with the rational behind adding Rutgers to the Big Ten, it doesn't matter how many people watch the ream in the local market, the network would be on basic cable, so people would be paying for it whether they want it or not."

That's assuming you believe that rationale. If the Big 10 muckety-mucks believe it, they can. I can tell you Rutgers doesn't have a following in that market, and if Cablevision can piss off Fox for the World Series, it won't hesitate to piss off the Big 10 network because the 14 people that care about Rutgers football don't get the game. It isn't a college football market, no more than Paris, Shanghai or Singapore. To the extent people want to watch games, they go to the bars that cater to the teams.

+1.
Nov 3, 2010 10:44am
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FairwoodKing

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Nov 4, 2010 2:00 AM
bo shemmy3337;542453 wrote:Notre dame is going no where as they make too much money on their own and have the best chance in the nation to get to a BCS game IMO. As dumb as it sounds a team like Kent State would be a good fit. KSU is a very large school and would have a big time following if they could win some games. Now they are so bad that there is no way they even get looked at but a school that big with that much space where Dix Stadium is located is ideal for expansion if ever needed. Also Akron would be a solid choice as they have proven to bring in fans if the team is good. There new stadium is nice but really has no room for expansion if ever needed. Remember we are talking about the big east here and they are desperate IMO so any thing is possible.

Kent State is not ready for the Big East, but we may be in a few years. We just got a new AD who is determined to improve the football program. I hope the first thing he does is to get rid of Doug Martin. Martin has failed to do anything at Kent despite having been there quite a few years. Martin is so bad he couldn't even hang onto Zach Collaros after Zach verballed to Kent. We will just have to wait and see what happens.
Nov 4, 2010 2:00am
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goosebumps

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Nov 4, 2010 2:37 AM
The big east won't even look at any of the MAC teams, they aren't in any desirable markets. The Big East wants to launch a network in a couple of years and no one in the MAC brings anything to the table in terms of location or talent. I love watching MAC football, but they just don't fit into what the Big East is or is looking for.

TCU obviously doesn't make since distance wise, but the Ft. Worth area is a major selling point if a network is ever launched and they add a lot to the talent level on the football side. I'd really like them to join. The competition in the BE is well above what they see in the MWC week to week, I don't think they can go through a BE season unscathed.
Nov 4, 2010 2:37am
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krambman

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Nov 4, 2010 9:51 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;542920 wrote:That's assuming you believe that rationale. If the Big 10 muckety-mucks believe it, they can. I can tell you Rutgers doesn't have a following in that market, and if Cablevision can piss off Fox for the World Series, it won't hesitate to piss off the Big 10 network because the 14 people that care about Rutgers football don't get the game. It isn't a college football market, no more than Paris, Shanghai or Singapore. To the extent people want to watch games, they go to the bars that cater to the teams.

I'm assuming that Cablevision is a cable provider in the New York market. If Rutgers were added the BTN would not just be added to cable in NYC but likely in the entire states of New York and New Jersey. I'm also going to assume that Cablevision isn't the only cable provider in New York/New Jersey. If Time Warner and Comcast are there as well the network would be easily added since those providers already carry the network in the Midwest. If those providers are there as well and do carry it Cablevision would likely eventually give in. Make no mistake about it, if Rutgers joined the Big Ten the BTN would end up on basic cable in New York/New Jersey. Now, the Big Ten may not get as much per subscriber as they would like, but a deal would eventually be reached. And even if it isn't as much per subscriber as the Big Ten wants it's won't matter much because of the huge population there.
Nov 4, 2010 9:51am
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Speedofsand

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Nov 4, 2010 12:25 PM
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/os-diaz-ucf-big-east-football-20101103,0,6430654.column
It's the easy way out for the Big East. Just offer an upgrade to somebody who already is in the family, incestuous as that may be.
Temple and TCU are also in the mix, but with a "football only" caveat.
UCF comes next in the pecking order, presumably with a "football only" caveat as well.
Already a super power in hoops, the Big East has no interest in expanding beyond 16 teams. UCF simply gets squeezed out because of convenience/logistics.
Since AD Keith Tribble has said numerous times that he has no interest in moving to a bigger conference unless it is a package deal, my guess is that the Knights stay put in Conference USA, doomed to further irrelevance.
Nov 4, 2010 12:25pm
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jordo212000

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Nov 4, 2010 12:30 PM
If they don't add TCU, there is no reason to expand. Adding another crappy school in a nice market will get you on more tvs but it also might hasten their exit from AQ status by watering down the product even more
Nov 4, 2010 12:30pm
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FairwoodKing

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Nov 4, 2010 4:28 PM
goosebumps;544585 wrote:The big east won't even look at any of the MAC teams, they aren't in any desirable markets. The Big East wants to launch a network in a couple of years and no one in the MAC brings anything to the table in terms of location or talent. I love watching MAC football, but they just don't fit into what the Big East is or is looking for.

TCU obviously doesn't make since distance wise, but the Ft. Worth area is a major selling point if a network is ever launched and they add a lot to the talent level on the football side. I'd really like them to join. The competition in the BE is well above what they see in the MWC week to week, I don't think they can go through a BE season unscathed.

I think the BE would look at Temple. Temple is only in the MAC for football. They are located in a big market and they play in a pro stadium. Switching to the Big East would be a very easy move for them.
Nov 4, 2010 4:28pm
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gorocks99

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Nov 4, 2010 4:31 PM
The Big East kicked Temple out 6 years ago! No way do they invite them back so soon, regardless of what Al Golden is doing.
Nov 4, 2010 4:31pm
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enigmaax

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Nov 4, 2010 5:24 PM
jordo212000;544830 wrote:If they don't add TCU, there is no reason to expand. Adding another crappy school in a nice market will get you on more tvs but it also might hasten their exit from AQ status by watering down the product even more

Yeah, thats why I'm wondering exactly what the goal is here. I suppose we'll see the angle when they actually reveal who they are interested in, but a good market with a low rent team isn't necessarily going to be a good long term move. Also still don't understand why they only want to go to 10 teams if they're thinking this is going to better market a TV deal or generate more revenue.

And is the following article for real? I would think they would have at least put out feelers before announcing a decision to expand. So are Houston and UCF lying or is the Big East really not interested in either (bringing us back to Villanova and TCU)?

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-bigeastexpansion-houston
Nov 4, 2010 5:24pm