Big East Approves Expansion to Ten Teams

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krambman

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Nov 2, 2010 3:37 PM
Just saw this on Twitter.

The Big East presidents have voted unanimously to begin pursuing expansion to 10 teams for football. Currently they have eight teams. Outside of Notre Dame who could they reasonably go after? Obviously they aren't going to get anyone to leave the Big Ten (not enough money) and they won't steal anyone from the ACC (who they lost three schools to a few years ago). My guess is that Villanova will make the jump to D-1A soon and will be one of the two schools they they add. If Notre Dame refuses to join (which is likely) who would they go after? I assume that Temple is the most likely target.

I certainly understand why they are doing this but at the same time, if I'm a school like Rutgers or Syracuse who thinks I may still get a chance to join the Big Ten in a few years I wouldn't be too eager to add other teams to our conference if we think we may leave soon.
Nov 2, 2010 3:37pm
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gorocks99

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Nov 2, 2010 3:41 PM
The already kicked Temple out. Not sure how willing they'd be to go back to them.
Nov 2, 2010 3:41pm
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OneBuckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 3:44 PM
They are scramblilng IMO so the joke of a confrence won't lose their automatic BCS bid.
Nov 2, 2010 3:44pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 3:46 PM
krambman;542333 wrote:Just saw this on Twitter.

The Big East presidents have voted unanimously to begin pursuing expansion to 10 teams for football. Currently they have eight teams. Outside of Notre Dame who could they reasonably go after? Obviously they aren't going to get anyone to leave the Big Ten (not enough money) and they won't steal anyone from the ACC (who they lost three schools to a few years ago). My guess is that Villanova will make the jump to D-1A soon and will be one of the two schools they they add. If Notre Dame refuses to join (which is likely) who would they go after? I assume that Temple is the most likely target.

I certainly understand why they are doing this but at the same time, if I'm a school like Rutgers or Syracuse who thinks I may still get a chance to join the Big Ten in a few years I wouldn't be too eager to add other teams to our conference if we think we may leave soon.

Reasonably? No one. Temple is an urban campus that won't embrace football and Golden is likely gone soon. 'Nova is a milquetoast basketball school, that at its peak would be about the relevance of Wake Forest. And again that's the peak. What's the point of expansion if you're adding negative talent?

This could be a panic move to deal with the possible Big 12 collapse, and the SEC and/or Big 10 expanding from the aftershock, which would cause the ACC to possibly look into Big East teams. I can see Syracuse and UConn being somewhat attractive to the ACC - Pitt is more of a Big 10 school. WVU isn't attractive due to academics/demographics, and Rutgers just doesn't have the support of the athletic program.
Nov 2, 2010 3:46pm
W

wkfan

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Nov 2, 2010 4:02 PM
Notre Dame would be a good fit........

Irrelevant program in a sucky conference......
Nov 2, 2010 4:02pm
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enigmaax

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Nov 2, 2010 4:28 PM
They've already floated the idea of Villanova moving up and there were reports of interest in TCU.

I still say Memphis is going to try and get it on it as they've expressed the desire to move into a BCS conference and who else is going to take them?

Others that have been speculated here and elsewhere: Houston if TCU is a go; UCF, East Carolina...any other CUSA rejects?

How about Navy?

Wait, what the hell is the point of going to 10 teams? What benefit does that offer unless they pick up a HUGE commodity (or at least a major market - TCU/Dallas/Fort Worth.....I guess)?
Nov 2, 2010 4:28pm
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bo shemmy3337

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Nov 2, 2010 4:29 PM
Notre dame is going no where as they make too much money on their own and have the best chance in the nation to get to a BCS game IMO. As dumb as it sounds a team like Kent State would be a good fit. KSU is a very large school and would have a big time following if they could win some games. Now they are so bad that there is no way they even get looked at but a school that big with that much space where Dix Stadium is located is ideal for expansion if ever needed. Also Akron would be a solid choice as they have proven to bring in fans if the team is good. There new stadium is nice but really has no room for expansion if ever needed. Remember we are talking about the big east here and they are desperate IMO so any thing is possible.
Nov 2, 2010 4:29pm
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Fly4Fun

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Nov 2, 2010 4:54 PM
Best thing for non-AQ schools was the Big 10 and Pac 10 picking up schools. It has left the other AQ schools scrambling to either pick up schools currently not in AQ conferences but looking to enter one or schools looking to jump their current AQ conference.

I'm think that 1 of the AQ conferences is eventually going to lose it's status... whether it's the BE or the ACC who knows. Both have had pretty terrible years lately... the BE is just worse at the moment.
Nov 2, 2010 4:54pm
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sleeper

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Nov 2, 2010 5:02 PM
The only D1 school garbage enough to join that conference would be Notre Dame, but they are content with going 6-6 and losing their bowl game year in year out as an independent so I don't see them joining.
Nov 2, 2010 5:02pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 5:09 PM
"... whether it's the BE or the ACC who knows."

Money matters. And the ACC has it. F$U, Miami, UNC, UCA, UVA, BC, Maryland has some cash. Much more so than the South Florida's and Louisville's (unless Papa John steps up!).
Nov 2, 2010 5:09pm
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Fly4Fun

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Nov 2, 2010 5:14 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;542527 wrote:"... whether it's the BE or the ACC who knows."

Money matters. And the ACC has it. F$U, Miami, UNC, UCA, UVA, BC, Maryland has some cash. Much more so than the South Florida's and Louisville's (unless Papa John steps up!).

I can't argue with that. The ACC does seem more credible than the Big East.
Nov 2, 2010 5:14pm
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believer

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Nov 2, 2010 5:15 PM
bo shemmy3337;542453 wrote:Notre dame is going no where as they make too much money on their own and have the best chance in the nation to get to a BCS game IMO. As dumb as it sounds a team like Kent State would be a good fit. KSU is a very large school and would have a big time following if they could win some games. Now they are so bad that there is no way they even get looked at but a school that big with that much space where Dix Stadium is located is ideal for expansion if ever needed. Also Akron would be a solid choice as they have proven to bring in fans if the team is good. There new stadium is nice but really has no room for expansion if ever needed. Remember we are talking about the big east here and they are desperate IMO so any thing is possible.
Kent or Akron? Naw. Temple, Buffalo, Miami (OH), Ball State, or Central Michigan maybe. Miami is too close to Cincinnati to make that one viable though.

If anything the Big East will tap into C-USA before looking at anyone from the MAC.
Nov 2, 2010 5:15pm
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sjmvsfscs08

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Nov 2, 2010 5:19 PM
Central Florida, East Carolina, Memphis would be good additions. Navy would be awesome but won't happen.

Notre Dame isn't good enough to compete in the Big East.
Nov 2, 2010 5:19pm
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believer

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Nov 2, 2010 5:22 PM
I could even see an Appalachian State moving from 1-AA to 1-A and going to the Big East...ya never know!

Why not both Army and Navy?
Nov 2, 2010 5:22pm
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Fly4Fun

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Nov 2, 2010 5:27 PM
believer;542554 wrote:I could even see an Appalachian State moving from 1-AA to 1-A and going to the Big East...ya never know!

Why not both Army and Navy?

Bringing in either Army or Navy into the Big East would be a quick way to lose their AQ status. The service academies always emphasize academics and their military training over athletics... as they should. Having those schools in the conference would have no positive impact on the "strength" of the conference.
Nov 2, 2010 5:27pm
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darbypitcher22

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Nov 2, 2010 5:50 PM
I think Navy and Vilanova for football would be a good fit
Nov 2, 2010 5:50pm
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jordo212000

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Nov 2, 2010 5:52 PM
Go balls out and add TCU and Houston. Two schools that will improve the quality of the football aspect of the conference. The basketball remains the issue though. They already have too many schools. TCU and Houston will need to play basketball as well (their conference they're in now will not be allowing them to stick around in all other sports).

Ideally they need to cut some dead weight in the conference. (DePaul anybody?)
Nov 2, 2010 5:52pm
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enigmaax

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Nov 2, 2010 6:09 PM
jordo212000;542591 wrote:Go balls out and add TCU and Houston. Two schools that will improve the quality of the football aspect of the conference. The basketball remains the issue though. They already have too many schools. TCU and Houston will need to play basketball as well (their conference they're in now will not be allowing them to stick around in all other sports).

Ideally they need to cut some dead weight in the conference. (DePaul anybody?)

I don't see how any other options are going to "strengthen" the conference. I mean, who cares if Villanova moves up...or how does that help?...instead of raiding a second rate conference (CUSA) for new teams, they gotta go hunting lower divisions? Doesn't legitimize them at all.

Pretty much they're left with trying to get the next group of "best 2nd tier" teams, kinda like when Louisville was hot (and we see how that worked out). And that pretty much leaves you with TCU. All Houston really does is give them a reasonable geographic rival.

I wonder how schools like that would impact basketball - would they cut DePaul and Providence types who aren't really spectacular in basketball and don't benefit them in football? Or just keep adding on to the already ridiculous number of basketball teams (probably wouldn't make much difference either way at this point).
Nov 2, 2010 6:09pm
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goosebumps

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Nov 2, 2010 6:19 PM
This could bring about much more change than most realize. Bringing in just one more team that sponsors football means there would be 9 football teams and 8 basketball only teams. Don't be surprised if they end up dropping depaul, marquette, or some other perenial bottom feeder.

TCU and UCF would give the Big East two new large markets, they already have some of the biggest markets in the country (thats why the big ten wants a piece). Paul Tagliabue and co. are working hard on a Big East network that would come out in 2012 or 2013. Adding in a couple of new markets and using basketball as bargaining chip with cable companies could net the schools some serious cash that they are missing. They would catch up with the ACC very very quickly.
Nov 2, 2010 6:19pm
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sjmvsfscs08

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Nov 2, 2010 7:09 PM
jordo212000;542591 wrote:Go balls out and add TCU and Houston.

I can definitely see TCU, and Houston. I think their wish list:

1- Notre Dame
2- Texas Christian
3- Houston
4- Central Florida
5- East Carolina
6- Memphis
7- Navy


The thing about this expansion is they are fighting to stay relevant, not just generate cashflow via new television markets.
Nov 2, 2010 7:09pm
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Little Danny

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Nov 2, 2010 7:22 PM
Army and Navy will not join the BE. Army joined C-USA a decade ago and it set their athletic department back big time. Despite what many of you believe, there is a major difference between the level and depth of athletes at these schools compared to what Army (in particular) could muster. Army frequently was undermanned by 100 pounds a man in the trenches. Sure they can win some of those games but asking them to win 8-9 of them a year is too much. Another issue with Army/Navy is that their current situation is perfect already. Play a couple games against the big schools a year, play the other service academies and the MAC and you are destined for a 6-6/7-5 type season without really trying that hard.

From what I have gathered in appears any combination of TCU, Houston, UCF, along with (eventually) Villanova or Temple will be the new Big East. The key issue for the BE is their attempts to form a Big East Network (BEN), much in the same vein as the Big Ten Network. The teams in the Big East are already located in the largest media markets in the country. They don't necessarily need to have people watching them, but if they could swing a deal so that people in New York, NJ, Chicago, Tampa, Orlando, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Houston, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington DC, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, have a few cents added to the cable to broadcast the BEN, that would be a lot of $$$. And as we all know, $$$ is what makes the world go around.
Nov 2, 2010 7:22pm
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krambman

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Nov 2, 2010 7:59 PM
There's one reason and one reason only to expand: MONEY. They will only add teams that they believe will benefit everyone financially. This means teams in major media markets and presumably schools that are at least half-way decent in football. Villanova is a logical choice because they are in Philadelphia (4th largest TV market). Notre Dame is another logical choice because of the Chicago market (third largest). I could see the Big East entering into negotiations with NBC to become the TV partner of the conference is ND was added. There would also have to be unequal revenue distribution (like the Big XII) where Notre Dame gets at least as much as they are getting now if not more (and definitely more than the rest of the schools in the conference). Even then I still don't think that ND is ready or willing to join a conference in football yet.

I also think that we might see the Big East, Big XII, and possibly the MWC jointly petition the NCAA to allow a conference title game for conferences with 10 teams to get that extra revenue. If these there conferences petitioned together they would probably win.
Nov 2, 2010 7:59pm
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enigmaax

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Nov 2, 2010 8:28 PM
krambman;542728 wrote:There's one reason and one reason only to expand: MONEY. They will only add teams that they believe will benefit everyone financially. This means teams in major media markets and presumably schools that are at least half-way decent in football. Villanova is a logical choice because they are in Philadelphia (4th largest TV market). Notre Dame is another logical choice because of the Chicago market (third largest). I could see the Big East entering into negotiations with NBC to become the TV partner of the conference is ND was added. There would also have to be unequal revenue distribution (like the Big XII) where Notre Dame gets at least as much as they are getting now if not more (and definitely more than the rest of the schools in the conference). Even then I still don't think that ND is ready or willing to join a conference in football yet.

I also think that we might see the Big East, Big XII, and possibly the MWC jointly petition the NCAA to allow a conference title game for conferences with 10 teams to get that extra revenue. If these there conferences petitioned together they would probably win.

I thought the remaining Big XII teams were pretty much anti-championship game anyway. Doubt that one is going to change because what is the point of a championship game when you can/do play a round robin?

So, I get the major market thing and I understand that just getting a TV deal where there's a certain number of households to pay for the network would generate more cash. My question is, are teams like Villanova and even TCU to an extent going to bring enough to the table to basically force cable companies to pay for a Big East network? Does the Big East really have that great of marketing potential other than simply being a BCS conference for the moment?
Nov 2, 2010 8:28pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 2, 2010 8:31 PM
" Villanova is a logical choice because they are in Philadelphia (4th largest TV market)."

There are maybe 58 people in the Philly market that care about Villanova. There isn't a market there, and to the extent there is one it is people watching PSU.
Nov 2, 2010 8:31pm
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sjmvsfscs08

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Nov 2, 2010 8:36 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;542752 wrote:" Villanova is a logical choice because they are in Philadelphia (4th largest TV market)."

There are maybe 58 people in the Philly market that care about Villanova. There isn't a market there, and to the extent there is one it is people watching PSU.

Doesn't matter if they watch or not, it would be on their cable and it would give the Big East money.
Nov 2, 2010 8:36pm