cbus4life;537538 wrote:Well said, pretty much sums up how i feel.

The Juan Williams firing was absolutely ridiculous, but, for the most part, NPR does a damn fine job, and is a pretty darn good source for the news, all things considered.

Ha...I see what you did there.

That was pretty funny.

Being a believer that actions speak much louder than words -- the act of firing Williams says a lot about NPR that people on here say isn't true, and NPR themselves probably would deny. But when it came right down to it, they listened to the liberal side of their brains and acted accordingly. It was probably so instinctual for them, they don't have a clue why anyone might be upset. The liberal ideal of diversity was threatened by an honest statement -- so Juan had to go. I say liberal ideal, because if Juan had somehow insulted Christians, he'd still be getting an NPR paycheck.

I bet he'd have lost his job if he made a remark about being scared everytime he was walking near an abortion center and saw some Christians.

Writerbuckeye;537826 wrote:Being a believer that actions speak much louder than words -- the act of firing Williams says a lot about NPR that people on here say isn't true, and NPR themselves probably would deny. But when it came right down to it, they listened to the liberal side of their brains and acted accordingly. It was probably so instinctual for them, they don't have a clue why anyone might be upset. The liberal ideal of diversity was threatened by an honest statement -- so Juan had to go. I say liberal ideal, because if Juan had somehow insulted Christians, he'd still be getting an NPR paycheck.

I agree. Ptown posted a link to a Washington Post article earlier on in the thread. In that article was a video link to a interview with Juan by George Stephanopoulos.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/22/AR2010102206616.html?wpisrc=nl_headline

I found it interesting for a couple of reasons:

1. Jaun Williams basically admits to a left wing NPR bias. He states he always thought it was the right wing who were intolerant, but now Jaun struggles as he is a recipient of the same intolerance from the leftist management at NPR. He also says that his affiliation with Fox News and appearing on their programs was something the current management at NPR was clearly antagonistic to. I wonder why? Clearly it is not for competitive reasons as NPR is a government subsidized non-profit organization.

2. The irony of Jaun Williams not understanding why he finds himself emphatically saying, "I am not a bigot". Yet he has leveled the same unfounded claims against others. Quoting Juan Williams, “When I go to a Tea Party rally and see the signs, there are some signs there that just look to me like racism.” He added, “You have to say to yourself, why is this group so overwhelmingly of one color in such a diverse country?”
[url]http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...king-on-fox-2/[/url]

I Wear Pants;538137 wrote:I bet he'd have lost his job if he made a remark about being scared everytime he was walking near an abortion center and saw some Christians.

I would not bet the farm on that.

Non-profit doesn't mean you don't have competition and it doesn't mean you don't want to keep your talent with you.

And has anyone considered tha they fired Williams because he continually made insulting remarks to people of all walks? The Tea Party, Muslims, probably more.

I Wear Pants;538159 wrote:Non-profit doesn't mean you don't have competition and it doesn't mean you don't want to keep your talent with you.

And has anyone considered tha they fired Williams because he continually made insulting remarks to people of all walks? The Tea Party, Muslims, probably more.

Are you saying Jaun Williams is not talented? Sometimes I agree with him most times I do not. Whether you agree with him or not he is a respected journalist. NPR journalists are no strangers to voicing their own personal thoughts and making insulting remarks. There have been many through out the years.

How about Nina Totenberg. I believe she has work for NPR since the 70's.
[video=youtube;mA41P41lJH4][/video]

Pants,

I know that you're most likely just enjoying the debating going on here. But I feel like I have to say that you're starting to get a little Gibby-esque here LOL!

CenterBHSFan;538270 wrote:Pants,

I know that you're most likely just enjoying the debating going on here. But I feel like I have to say that you're starting to get a little Gibby-esque here LOL!

Yeah but to IWP's credit he's a bit more coherent about it!

Victor Davis Hanson has an interesting article in today's Dispatch - http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/10/30/too-many-subjects-are-considered-taboo.html?sid=101

To summarize, he believes Americans have developed "groupspeak" in order to maintain political correctness across the board. No one wants to be publicly castigated for saying they feel a little worried when they see muslims on their flight. He contrasts this against the personal feelings of Americans, wherein they can admit to themselves their fears. He tackles other subjects, but since this is the Juan Willams' thread, I just mentioned this one. He states at the end that the anger in this country is the private feelings overtaking "groupspeak" or political correctness. Interesting viewpoint.

I guess I just don't get the fuss over "offending" Muslims. There's little if any of the same PC crap when it comes to offending Jews or Christians. I mean come on....when an entire religion gets collective assclench over someone drawing a farking cartoon of your "prophet," ya kinda have to wonder about them. Just sayin.

fish82;538397 wrote:I guess I just don't get the fuss over "offending" Muslims. There's little if any of the same PC crap when it comes to offending Jews or Christians. I mean come on....when an entire religion gets collective assclench over someone drawing a farking cartoon of your "prophet," ya kinda have to wonder about them. Just sayin.

+ Bazillionty

fish82;538397 wrote:I guess I just don't get the fuss over "offending" Muslims. There's little if any of the same PC crap when it comes to offending Jews or Christians. I mean come on....when an entire religion gets collective assclench over someone drawing a farking cartoon of your "prophet," ya kinda have to wonder about them. Just sayin.

C'mon...we're talking about the "religion of peace" here. What don't you understand?

majorspark;538191 wrote:Are you saying Jaun Williams is not talented? Sometimes I agree with him most times I do not. Whether you agree with him or not he is a respected journalist. NPR journalists are no strangers to voicing their own personal thoughts and making insulting remarks. There have been many through out the years.

How about Nina Totenberg. I believe she has work for NPR since the 70's.
[video=youtube;mA41P41lJH4][/video]

No, I was saying he does have talent. I was saying that NPR is upset at Juan being at Fox because they wanted to protect what they thought was their talent.

CenterBHSFan;538270 wrote:Pants,

I know that you're most likely just enjoying the debating going on here. But I feel like I have to say that you're starting to get a little Gibby-esque here LOL!

You're pretty spot on here. I had had a crabby few days (insert STD joke here) and when I get in those moods I enjoy provoking a bit of internet animosity. I try to be somewhat reasonable when I do it. Most of the time they are what I feel legitimate arguing points even though they may be small or petty or I might not agree with them.

Sometimes you just got to argue something because it's there to be argued. I'm probably not particularly good at it because I honestly don't follow this stuff as closely as a lot of you guys (Ptown, etc). I mostly try to read the posts of everyone on here (in particular those that I think I disagree with) so that I can get a feel of where I actually stand.

Hopefully that made some sense.

I've defended NPR as "non-biased" in this thread. But, let me be clear. Yes, NPR are hypocrites because they haven't fired someone like Nina Totenberg. Yes, I doubt they would have fired Juan Williams had he said "When I see I white christian on a plane, I get scared." I think it's stupid that they fired him for this. He made a true claim about an honest feeling he experiences that he even admits is probably unjustified when he sees a Muslim, but it is a fact that he feels it. And, personally, I think it may be a good thing for race relations if we can take a step back, realize and examine these kinds of thoughts, and put them on the table and talk about them.

But, I personally am not a big believer in the offense principle as justification for actions such as these and I think a chain of causation would be difficult to establish to say that remarks such as Mr. Williams actually harm Muslims.

I fully believe that this is evidence of a legit double standard. The world is overly sensitive towards Islam right now IMO. It is true, that white anglo-saxon protestants can get bashed or harassed and the same standard of conduct is not required, it seems to me. And I think that I agree that it is not right. To me, this is another example of what sometimes (perhaps often times?) brings down liberalism...people, meaning well, not wanting to offend equally well meaning Muslims fire a well-meaning and albeit honest liberal for expressing a true thought about Muslims.

I agree with Fish here...It's pretty fucked up if you might genuinely have to fear for your life if you draw an offensive cartoon, etc. You don't see baptists actually wanting to murder atheists, etc. But at the same time...I don't think this is a nail in the coffin for NPR being a secret communist propaganda machine....just another one of many organizations very caught up in the political correctness in vogue towards Islam. I'm not saying that it's right...I'm just saying that's what I think.

BoatShoes;539344 wrote:I don't think this is a nail in the coffin for NPR being a secret communist propaganda machine....just another one of many organizations very caught up in the political correctness in vogue towards Islam.

No one is claiming NPR is a "secret communist propaganda machine."

The organization is, however, chock full hypocrites. NPR gets the best of both worlds. It gets its funding from both private and public sponsors. Taxpayer-funded NPR needs to jettison the incessant hypocritical political correctness and become the true "fair and balanced" network. If it insists on going down the path to the left on the taxpayer dime, I sincerely hope the life-line is unplugged.

believer;539365 wrote:No one is claiming NPR is a "secret communist propaganda machine."

The organization is, however, chock full hypocrites. NPR gets the best of both worlds. It gets its funding from both private and public sponsors. Taxpayer-funded NPR needs to jettison the incessant hypocritical political correctness and become the true "fair and balanced" network. If it insists on going down the path to the left on the taxpayer dime, I sincerely hope the life-line is unplugged.

Thanks ............. although I could probably be persuaded to define them as a "communist propaganda machine".





GO QUAKERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BoatShoes;539344 wrote:I've defended NPR as "non-biased" in this thread. But, let me be clear. Yes, NPR are hypocrites because they haven't fired someone like Nina Totenberg. Yes, I doubt they would have fired Juan Williams had he said "When I see I white christian on a plane, I get scared." I think it's stupid that they fired him for this. He made a true claim about an honest feeling he experiences that he even admits is probably unjustified when he sees a Muslim, but it is a fact that he feels it. And, personally, I think it may be a good thing for race relations if we can take a step back, realize and examine these kinds of thoughts, and put them on the table and talk about them.

But, I personally am not a big believer in the offense principle as justification for actions such as these and I think a chain of causation would be difficult to establish to say that remarks such as Mr. Williams actually harm Muslims.

I fully believe that this is evidence of a legit double standard. The world is overly sensitive towards Islam right now IMO. It is true, that white anglo-saxon protestants can get bashed or harassed and the same standard of conduct is not required, it seems to me. And I think that I agree that it is not right. To me, this is another example of what sometimes (perhaps often times?) brings down liberalism...people, meaning well, not wanting to offend equally well meaning Muslims fire a well-meaning and albeit honest liberal for expressing a true thought about Muslims.

I agree with Fish here...It's pretty fucked up if you might genuinely have to fear for your life if you draw an offensive cartoon, etc. You don't see baptists actually wanting to murder atheists, etc. But at the same time...I don't think this is a nail in the coffin for NPR being a secret communist propaganda machine....just another one of many organizations very caught up in the political correctness in vogue towards Islam. I'm not saying that it's right...I'm just saying that's what I think.

Good post- I agree with most of that.