OSU has a top 3-5 incoming class and returns a team (minus Evan Turner, and yes I know he was a 1st team AA) that went to the sweet 16. Are they really top 5 material, who knows, but given how we formulate most preseason polls, I have no problem with them that high. With today's game, there is so much turnover of rosters, teams that return a ton of experience combined with bringing in top recruiting classes are gong to generally be at the top of the polls. That's why you see Duke, Ohio State, Michigan State, Pittsburgh, Kansas State, Villanova and others there.

Overrated on this list:

Ohio State (slightly, worried about PG and just unsure how much they will really miss everything Turner did)
Missouri (I don't even see them as top 4 in the Big 12 when it's over (BU, KU, KSU and A&M better)
Washington (by a good amount, they got hot late and ran away in a very weak Pac 10...Isaiah Thomas is untrustworthy as a dominant leader)
Kentucky (until we know if Kanter is eligible, they are overrated)
Minnesota (not even in the top 25 IMO, especially in the Big Ten where they have struggled to establish themselves)
North Carolina (default overrated, but I have a feeling they will get here when all is said and done, but too much unknown for 12th)
Connecticut (Name only, they won't finish in the top 6 in the Big East)
Syracuse (people don't realize how important those 3 guys were to that system).
Tennessee (I think the Vols will be good, but they are replacing 3 amazing seniors, more talented but unknown still)

Underrated on this list:

Villanova (More Fisher/Wayns and others, less Reynolds = better, I see Nova as a heavy favorite in a down Big East)
Temple (the class of the A-10 easily, they will be able to grind it with anyone, Allen can dominate more than he's shown)
Georgia (3rd best SEC team IMO, better than Vanderbilt and Tennessee (close))
San Diego State (very young and far exceeded expectations last year, return everyone from a team that won the tough MWC)
St. Louis (Most A-10 fans know about them, came on very strong last year, will finish 2nd (ahead of UD, XU, Richmond and Charlotte)
Wichita State (all the talk was with UNI last year, but watch for Wichita to go where other MVC teams have gone in the past, AKA, a LONG way come March, they are right there with Murray)
Murray State (how this team that won over 30 games isn't preseason top 25 is beyond me, the best mid-major 2010 (I don't count Butler, Gonzaga or Xavier)
Georgetown (Losing Monroe was huge, but I don't see how JTT and that system doesn't again put them in the top 20 most of the year)
Florida (if Billy Donovan can't do it with this roster, he doesn't have it, make or break year for him)
Butler (Probably fair if you are ranking best teams, but Butler isn't going to lose games they shouldn't which means likely another unbeaten Horizon season and a ranking high than they deserve almost all year)

^^^^You forgot the list that has the teams that will have to take all the wins out of the record books due to recruiting violations.

From what we saw tonight, if Enes Kanter becomes eligible, I think Kentucky has the potential to be near the very top. Brandon Knight, Terrence Jones and even Doron Lamb are all very good. Add in two very solid veterans like Miller and Liggins and that group of 5 is as dangerous as any in the nation. The real question is on the inside where Josh Harrellson and Eloy Vargas just won't cut it. Vargas is a borderline starter but isn't a true 4 or 5, not at the college level, and he's limited athletically from what I've seen. Harrellson is a typical 6-8 MPG guy who can hit an occasional shot and grab a few boards, but he contributes next to nothing defensively and isn't athletic enough to go up and down and be effective without scoring. At other spots, depth shouldn't be an issue as Hood and Poole will be fine as the 6th and 7th wings, but even with Terrence Jones forced to play the 4, the Cats will be extremely thin without Kanter. If he isn't going to suit up, this team won't be able to go past the Sweet 16/Elite 8 (at best). We will see what Cal is made of as a coach with this squad though because although it's more tuned into his typical style, he's always had a very good big man at the college level to go to even if he lacked depth. Without Kanter, he's got nobody who is really starting quality. Vargas isn't even on the Joey Dorsey or Shawn Taggart level...

Cal's never had a point guard that can shoot like Brandon Knight. I knew he was good but he surprised me tonight.

I agree. Knight is going to be as good as Rose, Evans and Wall. College-wise, he's going to produce as much or more. He may not be the pro prospect those guys are (although he's a projected top 5-10 pick), but he's going to be dynamic in college.

Lets not go overborad here boys...it was an intra squad scrimmage with only 10 guys. Meaning they were playing against the bottom of the team. I am sure UK will be good, as well as Knight being good. But to compare him to the likes of Rose, Evans and Wall is a bit premature at this point. Getting off by watching an intra squad scrimmate is like OSU football fans getting off watching the Scarlet and Gray game. There are always a couple of "all star" scrimmage players who never end up seeing the field the following season. A bit of an exaggeration. But again, I wouldn't take too much of anything out of a scrimmage with only 10 players. I mean I have been hearing that Sullinger has been an absolute beast since last summer down at OSU. But i am going to wait and reserve my judgement until the season gets going.

centralbucksfan;534909 wrote:Getting off by watching an intra squad scrimmate is like OSU football fans getting off watching the Scarlet and Gray game.

Were you trying to justify their argument? OSU fans always get a little carried away after watching the Spring Game.

I was just making a statement. Rose shot 33.7% from outside the arc, Wall 32.5%, and Evans 27.4%. Knight will be the best shooter.

You might think I'm overblowing it, but Brandon Knight WILL be as good as those guys on the college level.

Azubuike24;535482 wrote:You might think I'm overblowing it, but Brandon Knight WILL be as good as those guys on the college level.

As a freshman? And maybe he will. But I think I'll let it play out a little bit before I would go out on a limb like that. On top of that your only as good as the talent around you. UK will be talented. But Wall had a TON of talent that helped him out. As did Rose. I dont' believe at this point, Knight has THAT much around him. Especially if Kanter isn't eligible. Without an inside presence, that will make it even more difficult.

Numbers' wise, he will match what Wall/Rose/Evans did, or very close. He will probably score more than both Rose and Wall, easily.

And unlike CBF, I see no problem with putting lofty expectations on these elite freshmen. You only have them for one year and you know enough about them from AAU and ratings services to know where they stack up. I absolutely expect Sullinger to be one of the best players in the Big 10. I don't fault CBF say claiming he doesn't have expectations, but most fans do. Nothing wrong with comparing an incoming freshman to those who came before them.

thedynasty1998;536141 wrote:And unlike CBF, I see no problem with putting lofty expectations on these elite freshmen. You only have them for one year and you know enough about them from AAU and ratings services to know where they stack up. I absolutely expect Sullinger to be one of the best players in the Big 10. I don't fault CBF say claiming he doesn't have expectations, but most fans do. Nothing wrong with comparing an incoming freshman to those who came before them.

Never said it was a problem. But all your doing is setting that player, and yourself up for failure. Then you'll be on here whinning about how he/they didn't turn out how "you" expected them to. Sorry, but this isn't D3. Its big time college basketball and its a huge adjustment for many players. I have seen more not live up to those expectations then those who have lived up. Thats the reality of it. As i said, in my life, I have seen many high school all americans, scrimmage all stars, summer AAU studs, turn into avg collge players. Unless I see them be successful against the best of the best on a regular basis...I'll temper my enthusiasm.
But please stop with the "right and wrong" bullshit. That i have never said. Do what you choose. But then don't come on here whinning when someone isn't doing what YOU think they should do. Your Deibler shit is old...very old.

centralbucksfan;536176 wrote:I have seen more not live up to those expectations then those who have lived up. Thats the reality of it.

Then you set the wrong expectations. I don't expect much from the other freshman at OSU, but from Sullinger, I expect much more. I expect Craft to not turn the ball over. I expect Weatherspoon to provide a spark off the bench. I have no expecations of Thomas because I haven't seen him enough.

thedynasty1998;536254 wrote:Then you set the wrong expectations. I don't expect much from the other freshman at OSU, but from Sullinger, I expect much more. I expect Craft to not turn the ball over. I expect Weatherspoon to provide a spark off the bench. I have no expecations of Thomas because I haven't seen him enough.

How can someone have wrong expectations when they have none at all? Is that difficult to understand?

Because this "big time college basketball" has become a sport dominated by youth. Almost every elite team has Freshman and Sophomore players starring or playing significant roles. In the past 5 years, the NPOY has been a Freshman 3 times...and the NBA draft has been dominated by Freshman. In today's game, these guys are recruited to come in, change the dynamic of the team and to become stars from the day they lace the shoes up. This is especially the case for the likes of Brandon Knight and Jared Sullinger. Both were consensus top 5 players, arguably the top at their position and will become starters immediately.

In Brandon Knight's case, given Calipari's history with Freshman PG's and given the role Knight has already assumed on this UK team, I absolutely expect him to be a star from day one, an All-SEC caliber player and team leader. Combine that with the talent he has and the talent around him, I expect him to become one of the better players in the country. To expect otherwise from Brandon Knight is naive. I'll bet you even his own coach feels the same way. To not feel that way is selling him short IMO.

The same is true to Josh Selby at Kansas. Harrison Barnes at North Carolina. Tobias Harris at Tennessee. And many others. For many of these guys, you will be able to almost directly attribute the overall success of their team's season with how good they are. If they take 2-3 years to "get it", then I'd bet you that their team is going to struggle.

Azubuike24;536879 wrote:Because this "big time college basketball" has become a sport dominated by youth. Almost every elite team has Freshman and Sophomore players starring or playing significant roles. In the past 5 years, the NPOY has been a Freshman 3 times...and the NBA draft has been dominated by Freshman. In today's game, these guys are recruited to come in, change the dynamic of the team and to become stars from the day they lace the shoes up. This is especially the case for the likes of Brandon Knight and Jared Sullinger. Both were consensus top 5 players, arguably the top at their position and will become starters immediately.

In Brandon Knight's case, given Calipari's history with Freshman PG's and given the role Knight has already assumed on this UK team, I absolutely expect him to be a star from day one, an All-SEC caliber player and team leader. Combine that with the talent he has and the talent around him, I expect him to become one of the better players in the country. To expect otherwise from Brandon Knight is naive. I'll bet you even his own coach feels the same way. To not feel that way is selling him short IMO.

The same is true to Josh Selby at Kansas. Harrison Barnes at North Carolina. Tobias Harris at Tennessee. And many others. For many of these guys, you will be able to almost directly attribute the overall success of their team's season with how good they are. If they take 2-3 years to "get it", then I'd bet you that their team is going to struggle.

And I dno't disagree. But to say he or anyone else is going to be as good as guys that are already studs in the NBA...its a bit much IMO. I mean, OSU is ranked in most top 5-10 rankings...which I happen to think is a stretch. They lost Turner, who was their all everything, including their PG. They added Sullinger...who is a completely different player. Who I happen to htink will be "good"...and hope even better. But as a 6'8" post player...I have my reservations. But no matter how good he is...he isn't NEAR what Turner was...nor is anyone on OSU or anyone coming in. They have quite a bit of returning players along with some good frosh coming in. So they will be talented and deeper. But still have some big questions. I wouldn't have them ranked in top 5, maybe not even top 10. I am they will be THAT good..but not expecting it.
And again, you ripped off some good stats. But again, your talking the top of the top. Which is maybe about 5-10 frosh a year out of how many 5 star ranked players?? It still ends up being a select few that turn out to be THAT good from the get go. For every John Wall...there are 3 or more BJ Mullens.
Rivals Top players in class of 2009 were Wall, Cousins and Favors. Wall and Cousins were dominate. Flavors at times. Avery Bradley, #4 on Rivals...had a solid year, not earch shattering. John Henson UNC, #5 rivals, did nothing. So, yes there are those select few who do what some expect. But there are more who end up "not living up" to the expectations of their rankings you could say.

Losing Rautins, Wes Johnson and Onuaku is rough but I'm looking forward to seeing Kris Joseph, Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Mookie Jones and company playing with frosh players Fab Melo, Dion Waiters, etc.

They definitely won't be as good as they were last season but I think they're top 4/5 in the Big East and an NCAA tourney team.

CBF, I think we agree more than you think, but in this case, we haven't discussed anyone who isn't a cream of the crop recruit. Knight, Sullinger, Selby, Barnes, Harris, all of these guys were top 10 talents. They are going to be expected to be good the day they step on campus, whether that's fair or not. For guys like Knight, Selby and Barnes, guards who will be needed to score, for their teams to achieve where people think they will and/or expect them to, they will have to be good. The same, IMO, goes for Sullinger, who will be the premier interior scoring prescence for Ohio State. I guess we'll see.