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Cavs vs Miami Heat

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hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Oct 5, 2010 11:05 PM
Speaking of the Cavs though, they looked pretty good tonight.

Tough defensively and played with a "showtime" flair on offense.

It was a total team effort, I haven't seen the ball move around on offense like that in 15 years or so lol.

Loved the new court and uni's as well.

Ramon Sessions is a TRUE PG.
Oct 5, 2010 11:05pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Oct 5, 2010 11:06 PM
hoops23;508830 wrote:Speaking of the Cavs though, they looked pretty good tonight.

Tough defensively and played with a "showtime" flair on offense.

It was a total team effort, I haven't seen the ball move around on offense like that in 15 years or so lol.

Loved the new court and uni's as well.

Ramon Sessions is a TRUE PG.

hmm....didn't know we still had a team.
Oct 5, 2010 11:06pm
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

Senior Member

4,317 posts
Oct 5, 2010 11:07 PM
hoops23;508830 wrote:Speaking of the Cavs though, they looked pretty good tonight.

Tough defensively and played with a "showtime" flair on offense.

It was a total team effort, I haven't seen the ball move around on offense like that in 15 years or so lol.

Loved the new court and uni's as well.

Ramon Sessions is a TRUE PG.


I didnt see any of it. I heard JJ and Boobie played a pretty solid game
Oct 5, 2010 11:07pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Oct 5, 2010 11:14 PM
JJ is definitely "stronger".. He's leaner and crashed the boards with authority. Boobie wasn't just a 3 point shooter today. He ran the offense efficiently and scored from all areas of the court. He attacked the basket as well.



Ryan Hollins is a very good post defender as well. Not too gifted offensively, but he is dangerous when rolling to the basket just because of his athleticism. We haven't had a 5 that athletic since Tractor... (I kid)...

I know you can;t take much from a preseason game, but from what I seen, this Cavs team will be just fine. Obviously not a title contender this year, but they could definitely contend for the playoffs.

It's been said Gilbert wants to build a team similar to the '04 Pistons. This team is a good foundation to build that mold of a team.
Oct 5, 2010 11:14pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Oct 6, 2010 12:43 AM
I'm waiting to see what Miami can get out of that Milo Babic dude before I comment further. He seems like a young Darko and you know that means he'll be a winner!
Oct 6, 2010 12:43am
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

Senior Pwner

23,151 posts
Oct 6, 2010 10:22 AM
Thanks for the updates, should be a very interesting year.
Oct 6, 2010 10:22am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Oct 6, 2010 11:30 AM
hoops23;508848 wrote:It's been said Gilbert wants to build a team similar to the '04 Pistons. This team is a good foundation to build that mold of a team.

He would be wise to do that. First off, because the crown would buy into that style of play and secondly because those are the type of guys that he can get to come to Cleveland. Don't go after the big name guys, because in all honesty they likely won't want to come to Cleveland and don't go and overpay for them. Get a solid nucleus of guys that play well together, buy into defense and just scrap out wins.

With that said, I don't think Jamison and Mo Williams fit into that style, and those are the two guys I would assume the Cavs plan on parting with anyways.
Oct 6, 2010 11:30am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Oct 6, 2010 12:19 PM
Good luck creating a team like that Pistons team. They were unheralded, but let's not kid ourselves, they were pretty darn good. In their heyday Wallace was a monster on the boards, Sheed was big guy who could stretch the court, and Billups and Rip Hamilton were very good players at their respective positions.

Players like Sheed and Wallace do not grow on trees. On top of all the individual skill they had, the guys busted their butts on defense and they were all a tough group of guys. Again, that sort of player isn't common in the NBA.
Oct 6, 2010 12:19pm
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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4,317 posts
Oct 6, 2010 12:54 PM
jordo212000;509194 wrote:Good luck creating a team like that Pistons team. They were unheralded, but let's not kid ourselves, they were pretty darn good. In their heyday Wallace was a monster on the boards, Sheed was big guy who could stretch the court, and Billups and Rip Hamilton were very good players at their respective positions.

Players like Sheed and Wallace do not grow on trees. On top of all the individual skill they had, the guys busted their butts on defense and they were all a tough group of guys. Again, that sort of player isn't common in the NBA.

Its not going to be easy, its not impossible though. Should the Cavs just give up and accept the fact that they are going to be cellar dwellers for the next decade? If the Pistons can do it I dont see any reason why the Cavs cant. They have an owner that is willing to do whatever it takes to win
Oct 6, 2010 12:54pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Oct 6, 2010 1:36 PM
KR1245;509231 wrote:Its not going to be easy, its not impossible though. Should the Cavs just give up and accept the fact that they are going to be cellar dwellers for the next decade? If the Pistons can do it I dont see any reason why the Cavs cant. They have an owner that is willing to do whatever it takes to win

First off, the "owner that is willing to do whatever it takes to win" argument really isn't proven. He was willing to spend money because he was making money. That's not a knock on Gilbert, I'm just saying we have to see how he spends money over the next 5 years to really judge him.

As for the Pistons, I think the NBA is more top heavy now and the Pistons peaked at a time when the NBA was weaker so they were very opportunistic in that regard. As for that style winning a championship, I don't think it's possible. But there is no shame in creating a team in that mold and being a mid tier playoff team and being something the fans enjoy watching and will pay to watch.

The Cavs TV deal expires after this year, or the next and attendance will likely to down over the next two years, so it will be interesting to see what Gilbert can do marketing wise and from a competitive standpoint to keep that revenue up, because no matter what anyone says, it's still about money.
Oct 6, 2010 1:36pm
bigdaddy2003's avatar

bigdaddy2003

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7,384 posts
Oct 6, 2010 1:55 PM
You think the Pistons team in '04 only won the title because the league was at a low period?
Oct 6, 2010 1:55pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Oct 6, 2010 2:01 PM
bigdaddy2003;509308 wrote:You think the Pistons team in '04 only won the title because the league was at a low period?

That's not what I said. I do think the league was down as a whole and the Pistons were opportunistic at the time. The Lakers of today are a lot better than the Pistons of '04.

I'm not trying to take anything away from them, just saying.
Oct 6, 2010 2:01pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Oct 6, 2010 2:06 PM
Damnit....my thread is ruined with all this 2010 nonsense.
Oct 6, 2010 2:06pm
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

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Oct 6, 2010 2:17 PM
thedynasty1998;509314 wrote:That's not what I said. I do think the league was down as a whole and the Pistons were opportunistic at the time. The Lakers of today are a lot better than the Pistons of '04.

I'm not trying to take anything away from them, just saying.

I would argue that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers that the Pistons beat were better than today's Lakers.
Oct 6, 2010 2:17pm
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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4,317 posts
Oct 6, 2010 3:19 PM
Y-Town Steelhound;509348 wrote:I would argue that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers that the Pistons beat were better than today's Lakers.

I would do the same. That 04 team was better than last years Lakers. Opportunistic or not, the Pistons still had to beat a hell of a team to win the finals.
Oct 6, 2010 3:19pm
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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4,317 posts
Oct 6, 2010 3:44 PM
thedynasty1998;509282 wrote:First off, the "owner that is willing to do whatever it takes to win" argument really isn't proven. He was willing to spend money because he was making money. That's not a knock on Gilbert, I'm just saying we have to see how he spends money over the next 5 years to really judge him.

As for the Pistons, I think the NBA is more top heavy now and the Pistons peaked at a time when the NBA was weaker so they were very opportunistic in that regard. As for that style winning a championship, I don't think it's possible. But there is no shame in creating a team in that mold and being a mid tier playoff team and being something the fans enjoy watching and will pay to watch.

The Cavs TV deal expires after this year, or the next and attendance will likely to down over the next two years, so it will be interesting to see what Gilbert can do marketing wise and from a competitive standpoint to keep that revenue up, because no matter what anyone says, it's still about money.


I have to disagree with this. Did you go to any Cavs games before Gilbert showed up? Compare that to the arena after he bought the team, its night and day. I think you're underestimating Dan Gilbert a little bit. I think the guy has proven that hes willing to do what it takes. I dont think thats going to change now that Lebron is gone.
Oct 6, 2010 3:44pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Oct 6, 2010 3:48 PM
Yea, but he came into a situation where he had Lebron. Time will tell what kind of owner he is. There really isn't a reason to think that he won't spend money, but the situation is a lot different now, so he has to prove it all over again, IMO.
Oct 6, 2010 3:48pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Oct 6, 2010 5:41 PM
Gilbert is a billionaire who will be even richer with his casinos now.

He's said that the way he owns the team will never change.
Oct 6, 2010 5:41pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Oct 6, 2010 9:27 PM
hoops23;509661 wrote:Gilbert is a billionaire who will be even richer with his casinos now.

He's said that the way he owns the team will never change.

There's a salary cap, it limits how much he can spend

The salary cap is changing to a hard cap, now he can't go over the cap

Other owners are rich too. I mean they're also businessmen...

Other rich owners have struggled to win consistently. You have to get lucky and get a top 10 talent on your team. Without a superstar, you are F'ed. The Cavs need to sandbag this season and hope Stern blesses them with another top 3 pick so that they can rebuild.
Oct 6, 2010 9:27pm
T

trep14

Senior Member

842 posts
Oct 6, 2010 9:35 PM
Y-Town Steelhound;509348 wrote:I would argue that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers that the Pistons beat were better than today's Lakers.

Shaq/Kobe Lakers were better than the Lakers of today in terms of talent, but that '04 Lakers team was an absolute trainwreck. There were feuds going on between everyone on that team, they literally all hated each other. There was Kobe's rape trial, Kobe's fight with Shaq, Kobe's fight with Karl Malone, Kobe fighting with Phil Jackson. I mean, it is still impressive what the Pistons were able to do, but the fact that the Eastern Conference was at an all-time weak period during that time period coupled with the Lakers melting down created a perfect storm for that Pistons team. There's a reason that they are like the only team to win an NBA championship in as long as I can remember that didn't have a consensus top tier player. And that is because it is nearly impossible to win an NBA championship without a consensus top tier player.
Oct 6, 2010 9:35pm
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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4,317 posts
Oct 6, 2010 10:37 PM
jordo212000;510042 wrote:There's a salary cap, it limits how much he can spend

The salary cap is changing to a hard cap, now he can't go over the cap

Other owners are rich too. I mean they're also businessmen...

Other rich owners have struggled to win consistently. You have to get lucky and get a top 10 talent on your team. Without a superstar, you are F'ed. The Cavs need to sandbag this season and hope Stern blesses them with another top 3 pick so that they can rebuild.


Alot of the other NBA owners dont have the desire to win the way that Gilbert does. You wont see the Cavs sit on their asses for a decade the way that teams like the T-Wolves, Kings etc.... There are plenty of NBA teams that seem perfectly happy with being average. I know that all NBA owners have money, they just arent all willing to spend it.
Oct 6, 2010 10:37pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Oct 6, 2010 11:23 PM
jordo212000;510042 wrote:There's a salary cap, it limits how much he can spend

The salary cap is changing to a hard cap, now he can't go over the cap

Other owners are rich too. I mean they're also businessmen...

Other rich owners have struggled to win consistently. You have to get lucky and get a top 10 talent on your team. Without a superstar, you are F'ed. The Cavs need to sandbag this season and hope Stern blesses them with another top 3 pick so that they can rebuild.

Wow, you honestly don't get it.

Obviously owners are rich, but that doesn't mean they all like to spend their money. It also doesn't mean they know how to build a team/winning organization.

Gilbert has been around the game and is a fan just as as much as he is an owner.
Oct 6, 2010 11:23pm
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

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23,151 posts
Oct 7, 2010 8:00 AM
hoops23;510191 wrote:Wow, you honestly don't get it.

Are you suprised considering the poster?
Oct 7, 2010 8:00am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Oct 7, 2010 8:01 AM
hoops23;510191 wrote: Gilbert has been around the game and is a fan just as as much as he is an owner.

How has that worked for Mavericks fans? Really well, right?
Oct 7, 2010 8:01am
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

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23,151 posts
Oct 7, 2010 8:03 AM
I would say so, in the playoffs every year, win a ton of games and have been to the finals/WCF. Every year they're one of the league's best team. I think thats pretty solid.

I didn't know OU students got up this early, or are you still up from the night before?
Oct 7, 2010 8:03am