Little Danny;500279 wrote:

As to whether or not these coaches behavior or toughness made a team better there may be some debate. I played multiple sports and I can say that the coaches I listed above, where also the ones who could get the most out of their players and taught you could win with sheer hardwork, teamwork and discipline.

My first HS coach, who I believe was the culprit in both things I mentioned, was the one who I attribute my aggressive business nature to later in life...not the coach that came in my junior year and lead us to an undefeated playoff season my senior year.

I Wear Pants;500326 wrote:I'll buy the salt tablet thing. But withholding water is just as stupid then as it is now.

You seem (through your writing) that you were either a kid that did not get to play, or wasn't a part of a football team. We're smarter now, but to rave on, and on about how stupid these people were...

I had a baseball coach who was a real prick and thought he would improve the team by insulting and belittling players. He loved to pitch BP so he could throw at guys crowding the plate. he also loved mocking/belittling us whenever anyone made a mistake. I don't think it made the team better. If anything, it made us worse because everyone was scared of being humiliated by the guy. I must admit, I laughed when I heard a few years ago that he got what was coming to him.

On the flip side, our football coach was a tough guy but not a jerk. He expected us to work hard and excel, and he let us know when we screwed up. But he didn't personally insult anyone or belittle them. He was (is) a great coach and teacher. And, FWIW, his teams consistently had much greater success than the above-mentioned coach, even though both were pulling from the same pool of talent.

We also had a basketball coach who was very good, albeit demanding. When we had a game where we had breakdowns mentally, he scheduled a "mental toughness" practice. There were no basketballs, just trash cans at either end to puke in. We ran until we were sick. He was tough/demanding but not demeaning or insulting, and he also got great results from an under-talented and undersized group.

Moral of the story: It's fine for coaches to be hard on kids, make them run a lot, and expect them to work hard. Mental toughness is an integral part of the game, and having your guys work through tough situations results in team bonding. But needlessly torturing them or belittling them for your amusement doesn't motivate them to play better. If it did, the Iraqi national soccer team would win the world cup every time (i.e., they were told to win or they'd be tortured, but for whatever reason that didn't do the trick).

Good coaches instill discipline and respect by being fair-minded and reasonable, not by being jerks.

Our basketball coach was tough but was a great coach. Coming up my class saw how much of an ass he was when he lost so we just stopped losing. Finished with three regular season losses in four years.

I Wear Pants;500326 wrote:I'll buy the salt tablet thing. But withholding water is just as stupid then as it is now.

I sorta diasgree. it teaches people to know their breaking point. know the difference between being hydrated and dehydrated. you cant exactly call your own personal time out when its 4th and 1 with a few seconds left because you're a little thirsty. you have to know you can suck it up for one more play because ou have pushed it this far in practice.

The belief back in the 70's was that too much water would give you cramps. That was the reason for so few water breaks. Just as before my era in the 60's with the salt tablets, they thought what they were doing was right. It was not normally a punishment.
I still think being a hard ass gets better results. There is nothing wrong with the players being afraid of you, it builds character and teaches respect. I don't believe how often kids don't show up for practise because they just don't feel like going. And ever worse is the parents let them get away with it.
If you want to play a sport, give your coach 100% all of the time. If not, go back to your X-Box, your hurting the team.

I didn't play sports during the old school coaching era, however I wish it was still like the way it used to be. Yes, not giving water during practice is stupid, however I love how old school coaches don't put up with any bullshit. You don't have that now a days. You have coaches coddling their best athletes.

My assistant wrestling coach had some funny stories about his coach when he wrestled. He wrestled at Massillon Perry for the legendary coach Riggs (still coaching there). From his stories, I gathered that coach Riggs is one of those hard nose coaches that do not put up with any bullshit. Two stories that I thought were hilarious:

- Apparently the team was on their way to North Canton Hoover for their wrestling invitational. This tournament is in December, and apparently during this specific time it was snowing. Coach Riggs noticed one of his wrestlers was moving around in his seat bundled in a bunch of clothes. Riggs questioned the wrestler on what he was doing, and the wrestler confessed he is overweight and was trying to move around to sweat off some pounds. The bus was about 3 miles away from the school, and Riggs had the bus driver stop the bus. Once the bus stops, he makes the wrestler get off the bus and run the rest of the way to the school in order to lose weight.

- One of Riggs' middleweights had been fooling around with this girl. Keep in mind he is one of the guys on the team that no one really likes, including the coaches. It turns out this girl is the girlfriend of a specific All State linemen. The all state linemen finds out that the middleweight wrestler was fooling around with his girlfriend. So, before one practice the all state linemen comes in the wrestling locker room, and punches the middleweight in the nose about 5 times. There is blood everywhere, and the linemen leaves. Riggs comes in the locker room and is wondering why the hell there is blood all over the locker room. Riggs is informed about the whole situation, and he looks at his middleweight wrestler and says "you shouldn't have messed with his girlfriend." That was it, no suspensions or anything. That would definitely not happen now a days.

I Wear Pants;500326 wrote:I'll buy the salt tablet thing. But withholding water is just as stupid then as it is now.

Disagree. Just how bad the potential effects of dehydration are were not as well known a generation ago. Anyone who would withhold water today would have huge liability issues, and rightly so.

like_that;500410 wrote:I didn't play sports during the old school coaching era, however I wish it was still like the way it used to be. Yes, not giving water during practice is stupid, however I love how old school coaches don't put up with any bullshit. You don't have that now a days. You have coaches coddling their best athletes.

My assistant wrestling coach had some funny stories about his coach when he wrestled. He wrestled at Massillon Perry for the legendary coach Riggs (still coaching there). From his stories, I gathered that coach Riggs is one of those hard nose coaches that do not put up with any bullshit. Two stories that I thought were hilarious:

- Apparently the team was on their way to North Canton Hoover for their wrestling invitational. This tournament is in December, and apparently during this specific time it was snowing. Coach Riggs noticed one of his wrestlers was moving around in his seat bundled in a bunch of clothes. Riggs questioned the wrestler on what he was doing, and the wrestler confessed he is overweight and was trying to move around to sweat off some pounds. The bus was about 3 miles away from the school, and Riggs had the bus driver stop the bus. Once the bus stops, he makes the wrestler get off the bus and run the rest of the way to the school in order to lose weight.

- One of Riggs' middleweights had been fooling around with this girl. Keep in mind he is one of the guys on the team that no one really likes, including the coaches. It turns out this girl is the girlfriend of a specific All State linemen. The all state linemen finds out that the middleweight wrestler was fooling around with his girlfriend. So, before one practice the all state linemen comes in the wrestling locker room, and punches the middleweight in the nose about 5 times. There is blood everywhere, and the linemen leaves. Riggs comes in the locker room and is wondering why the hell there is blood all over the locker room. Riggs is informed about the whole situation, and he looks at his middleweight wrestler and says "you shouldn't have messed with his girlfriend." That was it, no suspensions or anything. That would definitely not happen now a days.

Awesome! Sounds exactly like my high school wrestling coach. Sadly, the biggest issue was not the change in kids per se, but in the parent. My parents and parents a generation ago woudl tell you to listen to your coach. If I were to tell my dad something my coach did my dad would say either I or my teammate deserved it. If I were to tell my dad my coach stopped the bus and made me run three miles, my dad would have laughed about it or tell me it was good for me.

The probably today is the parent. Ironically, the parent today (at least the dad) probably had a tough coach too. However, in this day and age of codling and wanting to be your kids friend instead of a parent, the parent would complain to the Principal or the school board if a coach even appeared to do something like they did in the past.

I know I will get some flack for saying this but a big problem is the role the father plays in their child's life today. The father is either physically absent and he is being raised by mom alone, or the couple is married and the wife wears the pants in the family and the husband never speaks up. Like with many problems in society today, until we correct this issue, things will continue to be screwed up.

like_that;500410 wrote:I didn't play sports during the old school coaching era, however I wish it was still like the way it used to be. Yes, not giving water during practice is stupid, however I love how old school coaches don't put up with any bullshit. You don't have that now a days. You have coaches coddling their best athletes.

My assistant wrestling coach had some funny stories about his coach when he wrestled. He wrestled at Massillon Perry for the legendary coach Riggs (still coaching there). From his stories, I gathered that coach Riggs is one of those hard nose coaches that do not put up with any bullshit. Two stories that I thought were hilarious:

- Apparently the team was on their way to North Canton Hoover for their wrestling invitational. This tournament is in December, and apparently during this specific time it was snowing. Coach Riggs noticed one of his wrestlers was moving around in his seat bundled in a bunch of clothes. Riggs questioned the wrestler on what he was doing, and the wrestler confessed he is overweight and was trying to move around to sweat off some pounds. The bus was about 3 miles away from the school, and Riggs had the bus driver stop the bus. Once the bus stops, he makes the wrestler get off the bus and run the rest of the way to the school in order to lose weight.

- One of Riggs' middleweights had been fooling around with this girl. Keep in mind he is one of the guys on the team that no one really likes, including the coaches. It turns out this girl is the girlfriend of a specific All State linemen. The all state linemen finds out that the middleweight wrestler was fooling around with his girlfriend. So, before one practice the all state linemen comes in the wrestling locker room, and punches the middleweight in the nose about 5 times. There is blood everywhere, and the linemen leaves. Riggs comes in the locker room and is wondering why the hell there is blood all over the locker room. Riggs is informed about the whole situation, and he looks at his middleweight wrestler and says "you shouldn't have messed with his girlfriend." That was it, no suspensions or anything. That would definitely not happen now a days.

That's awesome. I didn't play in the old school era, but I have heard tons of stories about those types of coaches and wish I would have played for one at some point. There is too much coddling and complaining by athletes and parents alike nowadays over stupid stuff. If you even look at a kid wrong you can expect a phone call

I guess maybe I lucked out but I had coaches that didn't coddle anyone. If you did something stupid/disrespectful then the team would likely get to have an exceptionally difficult workout that day. You didn't want to be that guy. I guess it depends on the school/coach you're competing for. None of my coaches took any crap. Hell, one of my golf coaches made us run laps around the course one day because someone mouthed off. Golf courses are pretty expansive.

I coach now and the worst thing that I do is throw footballs at kids when we are doing a "fun" conditioning exercise. The kids know it's coming, and we all laugh about it.

I'm only 24, but I came from a school that lived/died by football. The school/coach was allowed to be old school. We still had hazing (although not as bad as back in the day). Our rivals were the bulldogs, so upperclassmen (football players as well as regular students) would through underclassmen into a dog house made out of cardboard, make them bark, and eat dog biscuits. It was fun plain and simple.

As far as the coach went, he was (is) a hard S.O.B. Everyone respected the hell out of him but few liked him. I remember he grabbed our DE by the collar of his jersey, and threw/pinned him up against the all because he kept losing contain. That was out of line. However, the yelling, making us run A LOT EXTRA, 3-a-day practices, that all made us a better team.

karen lotz;500185 wrote:So you are somewhere in your mid 40s?? Wow.

Hey Lotzy can add! ... that fine ND education finally paid off.

Thought I would my two cents in. Had a varsity basketball coach that called me everything from a candy ass to a female genitalia! Problem was, I heard at home also! lol Talk about taking the brunt of all problems on our team, try sitting around the dinner table hearing about it from your dad the coach, while your mother is agreeing! My freshmen year of football, I lost contain and didnt run hard after the back went by. My coach ran 15 yards and form tackled me, hard! I told my dad about it later and he said, dont lose contain!

As for the comment from ts1227, I dont think disagreeing with a coach be it kid or parent is a bad thing. My problem is how the kid and parent go about questioning the authority! Dont yell during the game or practice, if either has a problem, be an adult and sit down with the coach. The difference was, years ago complaints to administration or board members werent handled like now. For instance, I am sitting in stands during varsity volleyball game with wife, kids and friend of wife who is the jr high vball coach. I am the AD now and when the ticket taker motioned for me to come get the money, the wife and I left. The jr high coach said, as soon as I hit the door, every parent started heckling the coach about her abilitites. They wouldnt do it in front of me! Thats what I am talking about.