Writerbuckeye;477176 wrote:Congrats on having a brain.

That puts you ahead of 99 percent of Democrats.

ha ha, thanks. I'm definitely not a Democrat, though.

Funny how Obama keeps talking about tax cuts for the middle class and not the upper end, but he's not giving us a TAX CUT!!! The rates remain the same for everyone as they are now, unless congress doesn't do something. Then it will be a TAX INCREASE.

He's screwed on this one....and the repubs need to hammer on that point.

Lower taxes are not the only means to economic growth.

Good point. It can't be a tax cut if the rates stay the same. More political bullshit slanting of the "truth".

QuakerOats;477221 wrote:Lower taxes are the ticket to economic growth; and it is only economic growth and reductions in government that can save the ship. The endless bantering over how much to soak the supposed 'rich' and all the class warfare thrown up by the left is meaningless. We either cut taxes to spur growth and systematically reduce the size of government, or we are finished as a great nation.

When will you stop with the rhetoric and look at the actual facts? Check the previous link...multiple authorities disagree with this...not just people repeating doctrine...direct aid to the states, extensions of unemployment benefits and tax credits for job creation, among other things, have all been estimated by multiple esteemed sources to contribute more economic growth in this recession dollar for dollar than extending the bush tax cuts which were already the lowest since before WWII with no increase in wages or higher paying jobs for most americans in the last 20 years.

To quote Isadore. "It's sad when you refuse to learn." And what do you know, your folks are going to get the Congress back and just mind-numbingly follow the accepted tax cut-paradise ideology rather than actual policy. It's a damn shame....flipping back and forth between the nosediving determined idiocy of the GOP and the mind-boggling, bumbling ineptitude of the democrats.

The former chair of W's Council of Economic Advisers Glen Hubbard and Peter Orzag, among others, have estimated that the tax cuts may have made the cost of investment more expensive and will in the future when our interest rates eventually rise.

I'm not sure what the answer is as I've suggested that extending the cuts may be a good idea...Some people don't fear that upward pressure on interest rates, etc;....but jees, you guys utter "cut taxes" like a mantra or a religion when it's not so cut and dry......

Mr. 300;477247 wrote:Funny how Obama keeps talking about tax cuts for the middle class and not the upper end, but he's not giving us a TAX CUT!!! The rates remain the same for everyone as they are now, unless congress doesn't do something. Then it will be a TAX INCREASE.

He's screwed on this one....and the repubs need to hammer on that point.

Most of the time I've heard it referred to as "an extension of the Bush Tax Cuts"....but that's just me

BoatShoes;477293 wrote:Most of the time I've heard it referred to as "an extension of the Bush Tax Cuts"....but that's just me

Just yesterday Bam said "I want to give all those making under 250K a tax cut," during an interview with Stephanopolous.

None of this matters anyway...half of his cronies in Congress don't have the stones to back him in this climate and are tossing him under the bus as we speak. Add in the fact that he wouldn't even issue a veto threat, and we can pretty much put this puppy to bed.

I Wear Pants;477252 wrote:Lower taxes are not the only means to economic growth.

Really; please expound on that.

They may not be the only means, but they sure as hell should be part of the package.

One thing we do know for sure: raising them in this environment will extend this misery by years, and probably make it even worse. FDR and his cronies found that out the hard way.

QuakerOats;477403 wrote:Really; please expound on that.

Tax cuts can work to help create growth but they are by no means the only way to create growth. And it's not as though lower taxes are automatically better.

I Wear Pants;477574 wrote:Tax cuts can work to help create growth but they are by no means the only way to create growth. And it's not as though lower taxes are automatically better.

Because it's our patriotic duty to pay taxes...right?

Listen...taxes are a necessary evil. Nobody denies that. Without taxation you cannot run an organized and orderly system of government; a government that provides services such as national defense, border security, a legal & judicial system for arbitration of disputes and criminal activity, public infrastructure, and so on.

Where we diverge from those necessities is the problem. A growing, intrusive government that creates a welfare/entitlement mentality based on redistribution of wealth accomplished by trampling on the liberties of others is why our tax rates are through the roof.

When unnecessary public spending is trimmed to realistic size and scope, come back to me and we'll discuss the need for tax increases.

It's very simple.....a combination of tax cuts and spending cuts can turn things around. However, the global economy is just as bad. Hopefully the UN will fix that after their luxury time spent in the Alps for a huge meeting paid for by whom???

Mr. 300;477629 wrote:It's very simple.....a combination of tax cuts and spending cuts can turn things around. However, the global economy is just as bad. Hopefully the UN will fix that after their luxury time spent in the Alps for a huge meeting paid for by whom???

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, I love that sarcasm. The day the UN fixes a single thing is the day I get hit by lightening holding the winning lottery jackpot number.

believer;477610 wrote:Because it's our patriotic duty to pay taxes...right?

Listen...taxes are a necessary evil. Nobody denies that. Without taxation you cannot run an organized and orderly system of government; a government that provides services such as national defense, border security, a legal & judicial system for arbitration of disputes and criminal activity, public infrastructure, and so on.

Where we diverge from those necessities is the problem. A growing, intrusive government that creates a welfare/entitlement mentality based on redistribution of wealth accomplished by trampling on the liberties of others is why our tax rates are through the roof.

When unnecessary public spending is trimmed to realistic size and scope, come back to me and we'll discuss the need for tax increases.

No because we have incredible deficits and without any taxes those don't go away. Of course, if we keep spending like assholes it doesn't really matter anyway.

This is a good reason to implement a flat tax/fair tax!

Writerbuckeye;477498 wrote:They may not be the only means, but they sure as hell should be part of the package.

1/3 of the porkulous package....reductions in tax liability.

Obama: "GOP is holding middle class tax cut hostage."


That was his repeated comment at the press conference today, and appears to be the new rallying cry you can expect to hear ad nauseam for the next 2 months.

it's not a tax cut, for god's sake. The rates will be the same as they are right now.

I was honestly shocked that no one called him out on referring to it as a "tax cut." :rolleyes:

It is an extension of a tax cut. But yes, making it seem like a new tax cut is disingenuous.

I Wear Pants;478669 wrote:It is an extension of a tax cut. But yes, making it seem like a new tax cut is disingenuous.

After 7 years, it's the tax rate.

No it isn't. If it was the tax rate then it wouldn't be expiring would it? It is certainly not a new tax cut but saying just because a tax cut was in effect for a while makes it the de facto rate isn't true.

Nobody is getting a tax cut...so extending the current rate is not going to give consumer spending a boost. Not extending it to certain income groups will decrease consumer spending. So what has been proposed will NOT help the struggling economy. Neither will it reduce the deficit because they are proposing even more government spending.

But don't expect anyone in the media to point that out to Obama.

Yes...incidentally I'm a 'redophile' too