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A-Roid

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G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Aug 3, 2010 10:08 AM
So if A-Rod one day breaks the homerun record, will you be happy to see the BS juiced mark left by Bonds? Or will you wait and hope Pujols breaks that one day as well?

A-Rod, of course, tested positive in 2003 and admitted to taking 'roids from 2001-2003. In my eyes the mark will be equally tainted.

Personally, I'd be a little surprised if Pujols never juiced.

Honestly, all these tests are a joke. My default assumption on most any pro athlete is they are taking some form of PED. Just too much money involved.
Aug 3, 2010 10:08am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Aug 3, 2010 10:37 AM
Count me in the group that doesn't care one way or another if they are juicing.
Aug 3, 2010 10:37am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Aug 3, 2010 10:48 AM
thedynasty1998;440058 wrote:Count me in the group that doesn't care one way or another if they are juicing.

I can respect that.....Haha, no one complains about fake tits, so why should we care if our athletes are enhanced?

In all seriousness though, I think attitudes might change considerably 20-30 years from now when we are all benefiting from these voluntarily experimenting with this stuff. I haven't read much on the research, but I do think steroids and HgH will become mainstream quality-of-living treatments for seniors in time.

I also think, if you hooked up the powers-that-be to a lie detector, that secretly they don't really want to prevent this but only make it look like they care. Bigger, stronger, faster sells and they want these guys on the field. I bet a fair amount of the use is just helping guys to get through the season, especially in the NFL.
Aug 3, 2010 10:48am
Firad's avatar

Firad

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1,525 posts
Aug 3, 2010 10:56 AM
thedynasty1998;440058 wrote:Count me in the group that doesn't care one way or another if they are juicing.

"Yes lets make pro baseball players taker Steraroids so scores for games wont be 1-0. Those games are boring. I want to see games with lots of HRs and scores like 60-42!" -- Sowing Season

If anyone remembers that guy from the Huddle.
Aug 3, 2010 10:56am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Aug 3, 2010 11:15 AM
Firad;440075 wrote:"Yes lets make pro baseball players taker Steraroids so scores for games wont be 1-0. Those games are boring. I want to see games with lots of HRs and scores like 60-42!" -- Sowing Season

If anyone remembers that guy from the Huddle.

Are you implying that I said that? Because I didn't.

However I would agree that I would rather watch a higher scoring game than a lower scoring game.

The thing with steroids is that they really only affect the individual using them. If an athlete wants to do that to his own body I really don't care. Although I think they should play within the given rules, there was a period when baseball was basically encouraging steroid use.
Aug 3, 2010 11:15am
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Aug 3, 2010 11:57 AM
Who is next? A-Rod? He juiced. After that? Pujols? He may have juiced? Honestly, anyone who played during this era is going to be questioned. Therefore, the significance of the record means even less.
Aug 3, 2010 11:57am
GOONx19's avatar

GOONx19

An exceptional poster.

7,147 posts
Aug 3, 2010 12:04 PM
Sowing Season was GOAT.
Aug 3, 2010 12:04pm
E

enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Aug 3, 2010 12:15 PM
I don't care who used and who didn't. Probably the coolest thing I've seen at a baseball game was sitting two rows back, looking up the third base line, watching McGwire launch a shot about 3450365 feet. No juice, it might've been just a ho-hum fly out to the warning track. Whatever.

If everyone wants baseball to be so pure, why are so many people tuning out now that it is "cleaned up"? Very few people were complaining about what baseball had become when they were watching McGwire and Sosa chase the record. But now we want to act like we are above what it did FOR the game. Not me, I loved the era. Compare the records however you want in your own mind. Try and pretend the guys at the top of the game didn't exist if it makes you feel better. Things you saw and numbers they accumulated still happened. And most of us enjoyed it.
Aug 3, 2010 12:15pm
ts1227's avatar

ts1227

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12,319 posts
Aug 3, 2010 12:45 PM
I just want Bonds to lose it, because through it all he was abrasive, in denial, and generally a huge asshole.

A-Rod has had his asshole moments, but he fessed up at least and is nowhere near as bad as Bonds ever was in terms of personality.
Aug 3, 2010 12:45pm
T

trep14

Senior Member

842 posts
Aug 3, 2010 1:53 PM
I'm not condoning the use of steroids, not would I say they were good for the game. However, I think there is some truth to what Enigmaax said. I love to see big offense in baseball. Nothing bores me more than a pitchers duel. Also, my college roommate and I were in a fantasy baseball league together and we started talking about how awesome it would have been to have Barry Bonds in fantasy baseball during his 2001 season. Seriously, a .328 avg and 73 homers? Nowadays you're lucky to get 73 home runs out of your first and second round pick combined. Boring.
Aug 3, 2010 1:53pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Aug 3, 2010 6:22 PM
I'll be just as interested in his chase for the all-time runs scored and RBI....not as tainted...especially the runs scored
Aug 3, 2010 6:22pm
darbypitcher22's avatar

darbypitcher22

Senior Member

8,000 posts
Aug 3, 2010 6:52 PM
like I've said numerous times... you still have to hit the baseball...

A-Rod can't even get to 600 right now because he's got a long ass swing. Until that changes he won't be hitting much of anything.
Aug 3, 2010 6:52pm
K

kayo

Senior Member

126 posts
Aug 3, 2010 10:51 PM
darbypitcher22;440648 wrote:like I've said numerous times... you still have to hit the baseball...

And like many others have said numerous times, there are plenty of guys that can 'hit the baseball', but the ones that illegally enhanced themselves were able to turn long fly balls into home runs.
Aug 3, 2010 10:51pm
Firad's avatar

Firad

Senior Member

1,525 posts
Aug 4, 2010 1:52 PM
thedynasty1998;440095 wrote:Are you implying that I said that? Because I didn't.

However I would agree that I would rather watch a higher scoring game than a lower scoring game.

The thing with steroids is that they really only affect the individual using them. If an athlete wants to do that to his own body I really don't care. Although I think they should play within the given rules, there was a period when baseball was basically encouraging steroid use.
That was just a joke that wasn't aimed at you dynasty, unless you were the dude named Sowing Season back on JJHuddle that would always go on rants about how Stararoids are good and they make baseball better.
Aug 4, 2010 1:52pm
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KnightRyder

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1,428 posts
Aug 4, 2010 4:34 PM
ts1227;440190 wrote:I just want Bonds to lose it, because through it all he was abrasive, in denial, and generally a huge asshole.

A-Rod has had his asshole moments, but he fessed up at least and is nowhere near as bad as Bonds ever was in terms of personality.

i actually met bonds once he signed a autograph for my nephew after bobby bonilla and andy van slyke all but told him to go piss in a lake. bonds seemed pretty cool. he just had no love for the media. and the media did their all to paint a bad picture of him.
Aug 4, 2010 4:34pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Aug 4, 2010 6:18 PM
The guy is naturally large and hit .356 at age 20......he was going to get 600 with or without roids...poor decision overall on his part
Aug 4, 2010 6:18pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Aug 4, 2010 7:52 PM
Ironman92;441882 wrote:The guy is naturally large and hit .356 at age 20......he was going to get 600 with or without roids...poor decision overall on his part

600, sure....But 700 or 800? And who's to say he didn't start taking 'roids in HS? McGwire came into the league as a big guy, too. Though I guess not as big as he ended up (but still a big frame).

I say 'roids added probably 150-200 to Bonds' career totals. At an age when most guys' numbers start to decline, Bonds power numbers surged off the charts...762....think about that - 38 a year (which is historically a solid number) for TWENTY years.
Aug 4, 2010 7:52pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Aug 4, 2010 7:54 PM
KnightRyder;441801 wrote:i actually met bonds once he signed a autograph for my nephew after bobby bonilla and andy van slyke all but told him to go piss in a lake. bonds seemed pretty cool. he just had no love for the media. and the media did their all to paint a bad picture of him.

I've heard a few stories from other people who also said he was a nice guy. I'd agree with you that he hated the media and was abrasive and they responded by painting him as the biggest dick ever....wouldn't be the first or last guy they've done that to.
Aug 4, 2010 7:54pm
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jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Aug 4, 2010 9:03 PM
Ironman92;441882 wrote:The guy is naturally large and hit .356 at age 20......he was going to get 600 with or without roids...poor decision overall on his part

I disagree. Bonds was always a great player, but from the start of his career until 1999 he averaged 32 home runs. Not earth shattering at all. On top of that he was always injury prone. I doubt he would have been able to continue that for as long as he did.

Bonds got a looooot of help
Aug 4, 2010 9:03pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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Aug 4, 2010 9:41 PM
This thread and my post is pertaining to Arod......regardless Bonds won 3 MVP before Roids and would without any doubt have been 500/500.......roids IMO cost him 3,000 hits and added 1000 walks to his career........not too mention it was a shot getting it out of his RF porch.
Aug 4, 2010 9:41pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Aug 4, 2010 9:52 PM
Back to Bonds....I can't let it go.

By age 33....

411 HR
1360 Runs
1217 RBI
1360 BB
440 SB
400 Doubles

3 MVP (without any doubt should've been 4 as Terry Pendleton was not as good of a choice as Bonds in 1991)
8 Gold Gloves


As for the games played....by age 33 he had 10 seasons where he missed fewer than 10 games.....during his believed to be roid years he only did that once.

Barry Bonds.......regardless of anyone's feelings on him was going to be one of THE very best players of our generation........roids or not....too bad he chose what he did
Aug 4, 2010 9:52pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Aug 4, 2010 10:01 PM
Ironman92;442067 wrote: Barry Bonds.......regardless of anyone's feelings on him was going to be one of THE very best players of our generation........roids or not....too bad he chose what he did

Yeah, I even said he was great. There's no getting around that. I also don't get bent out of shape about the 'roids. Everybody was doing it IMO, the playing field was mostly level. This isn't personal with Bonds.

My point was that despite his mix of average and power, I still doubt he hits 600 HRs. I never said he was a singles hitter before steroids. I just think they made him a much more prolific power hitter and I think it added years to his career
Aug 4, 2010 10:01pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Aug 4, 2010 10:19 PM
.......maybe years....but not many AB....Bonds lost 1,000 AB to walks during those years


Going by the Bonds stats above by age 33 (and those that recall the HR derby that fit Barry defeated ginormous McGwire figures Bonds wasn't roiding yet)......here is my guess to what he would've accomplished saying he played to age 40

Games 2800
Runs 1900
Hits I bet he would've stuck around to get 3,000......minus his power and walks and him hitting .285ish
RBI 1775
HR 550 (again.....he had 411 at age 33)
BB 1800 (maybe kill his 3,000 potential)
SB 550 (stopped stealing during roid mania.....had 440 at age 33)

3 MVP (shoulda been 4)
8 Gold Gloves

That is one high tier HOF player.......ass or not
Aug 4, 2010 10:19pm
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jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Aug 4, 2010 10:22 PM
Ironman92;442103 wrote:#1......maybe years....but not many AB....Bonds lost 1,000 AB to walks during those years


Going by the Bonds stats above by age 33 (and those that recall the HR derby that fit Barry defeated ginormous McGwire figures Bonds wasn't roiding yet)......here is my guess to what he would've accomplished saying he played to age 40

Games 2800
Runs 1900
Hits I bet he would've stuck around to get 3,000......minus his power and walks and him hitting .285ish
RBI 1775
HR 550 (again.....he had 411 at age 33)
BB 1800 (maybe kill his 3,000 potential)
SB 550 (stopped stealing during roid mania.....had 440 at age 33)

3 MVP (shoulda been 4)
8 Gold Gloves
#2. That is one high tier HOF player.......ass or not

1. Yeah but I'd argue without the roids he wouldn't have been getting walked/hitting 73 HRs. The walks were a result of juicing IMO
2. Agreed wholeheartedly. He was a great player.
Aug 4, 2010 10:22pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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49,363 posts
Aug 4, 2010 10:27 PM
I know....he never would've touched 50+ HR or walked over 130 times........but his doubles, hits and SB would've been higher at the end of his career.
Aug 4, 2010 10:27pm