Can't stand Jesse Jackson and agree with a lot of what was already said on this thread. However, I think he is exactly right about the mentality. Obviously LeBron James made a lot of money and the living conditions for slaves weren't comparable. But the sense of ownership is exactly the same - since Gilbert paid a big salary and since the fans came to watch, LeBron should have been forever indebted to each. LeBron didn't betray anyone by signing a free agent contract and most of Cleveland's (and especially Dan Gilbert's) reactions were just as idiotic as anything Jesse Jackson has ever said.

Do you think Rev. Jackson called Lebron up and asked him to recite "I am somebody."?

enigmaax;421087 wrote:Can't stand Jesse Jackson and agree with a lot of what was already said on this thread. However, I think he is exactly right about the mentality. Obviously LeBron James made a lot of money and the living conditions for slaves weren't comparable. But the sense of ownership is exactly the same - since Gilbert paid a big salary and since the fans came to watch, LeBron should have been forever indebted to each. LeBron didn't betray anyone by signing a free agent contract and most of Cleveland's (and especially Dan Gilbert's) reactions were just as idiotic as anything Jesse Jackson has ever said.

I think you are stretching it a bit here. If Greater Cleveland has not sucked in professional sports the past fifty years, this is is not a big deal. I think the fact Lebron being from here, being larger than life and bailing is the biggest issue. It would not matter whether Lebron was black, white or an Eskimo.

Wonder if Bron used the old underground railroad to get out of Dodge.

Sorry maax, I'm not buying it.

As merely a grotesquely overpaid entertainer, with an unknown skill set outside basketball, there hardly exists a valid comparison there anywhere. The problem again, lies in claiming to be a loyal native of ones hometown, and doing things as he did. I, nor anyone would have nearly the issue we do were he not to have claimed such loyalty over and over again. That's where the betrayal comes in.

Sorry Jesse but if Lebron was white, he'd be facing the same situation.

Here's an article from Jason Whitlock on this http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Jesse-Jackson-LeBron-James-Dan-Gilbert-slavery-comparison-071210

And burning his jersey is just like burning a cross - CLE fans are racist!!! Did The Rev pick-up on that one?

ytownfootball;421096 wrote:Sorry maax, I'm not buying it.

As merely a grotesquely overpaid entertainer, with an unknown skill set outside basketball, there hardly exists a valid comparison there anywhere. The problem again, lies in claiming to be a loyal native of ones hometown, and doing things as he did. I, nor anyone would have nearly the issue we do were he not to have claimed such loyalty over and over again. That's where the betrayal comes in.

This.

And I'll add one other note: when you've had a BUSINESS relationship with someone for seven years, one that has paid you millions of dollars, you should at least exit with a BUSINESS LIKE MANNER. Letting your former boss find out you are leaving by announcing it on national TV is self-serving, egotistical and poor form if you truly want to be seen as a great businessman (as well as athlete) some day.

Jesse, Obama and Democrats like them are why race will never stop being an issue in this country -- they take every opportunity to inject it into issues, even when it obviously doesn't belong there.

Race baiting pays off for these guys (in money, votes or both) so they're not going to stop doing it.

Writerbuckeye;421182 wrote:This.
Jesse, Obama and Democrats like them are why race will never stop being an issue in this country -- they take every opportunity to inject it into issues, even when it obviously doesn't belong there.

Like you just did to drive this thread straight over the political forum?

This thread is about Jesse's stupid ass, not any of the rest of it.

Writerbuckeye;421182 wrote: And I'll add one other note: when you've had a BUSINESS relationship with someone for seven years, one that has paid you millions of dollars, you should at least exit with a BUSINESS LIKE MANNER. Letting your former boss find out you are leaving by announcing it on national TV is self-serving, egotistical and poor form if you truly want to be seen as a great businessman (as well as athlete) some day.

For starters, LeBron's people contacted the Cavs prior to the show. You can let go of the "former boss found out on TV". It isn't true.

Little Danny;421091 wrote: I think you are stretching it a bit here. If Greater Cleveland has not sucked in professional sports the past fifty years, this is is not a big deal. I think the fact Lebron being from here, being larger than life and bailing is the biggest issue. It would not matter whether Lebron was black, white or an Eskimo.

Just to be clear, I don't see race as the big issue. The general sense that Gilbert acted like he owned LeBron, I completely agree with. Drawing a parallel to slavery is a bit extreme, but it is still a parallel. To simply say that there's nothing to the mentality because the guy was offered a hundred and however million dollars is weak - what was it that Marge Schott called her african american ballplayers? Gilbert acted like his money and the last seven years were some kind of ball-and-chain that should have kept LeBron in place.

And no, I don't buy the "it's how he did it" bullshit, at least in the case of Gilbert. There was much more deep venom in Gilbert's words and he made it clear that he hadn't just changed his mind about LeBron the person. He is pissed because his cash cow went to a greener pasture. Again, in that regard, LeBron was a possession of his, not a person.

^^^^HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Great analogy by Whitlock:

"You can argue James has the right to destroy his image. Man has the right to smoke cigarettes, too. It’s still stupid. And nonsmokers have the right to point out the stupidity of smoking."

No... If MLK were still around..... Jessie would be a NEVER WAS.....

Thread Bomber;421252 wrote:No... If MLK were still around..... Jessie would be a NEVER WAS.....

Sure about that?

What a piece of shit.

I have always tried very hard to be sensitive about the issue of race relations in our country because I realize what has happened in our history hasn't always been a very positive experience for minority populations. there has been violence, people have been murdered, people have been convicted of crimes based solely on their race,and there have been many other unfortunate and very sad stories about the way people's rights and freedoms have been violated and/or denied. Jesse Jackson however, is an agitator, pure and simple. His stock has lost value. He has lost the position as the center of the Black Movement and now he has become nothing more than a carnival side-show. It began for me when he showed up in Decatur, Illinois several years ago, days after a full scale riot had broken out in the stands of one of the local high schools, which was started by a group of thugs who were ultimately controlled and disciplined, but that wasn't how Jesse saw it. He went there and caused a big ruckus about unfair treatment. The citizens didn't want him, the situation had been properly controlled but no, Jesse had to get involved. The episode died as quickly as it had started but Jesse got involved. those who were there that day said that the situation was handled properly, and Jesse's visit was really nothing more than another opportunity for him to jump back into the picture. To say that Dan Gilbert acted like a slave owner is so ludicrous that it defies any notion of common sense. it is a very poor attempt to justify James running off and not telling the truth to anyone. Besides, if slaves get that kind of money, where do I sign up? Just out of curiosity, how many slaves do you think would have left the plantation if a 30 million plus offer had been extended to those who remained, not to mention a multi-billion dollar endorsement package? Jesse, I think it's past time for you to give it up. There was a time when you were relevant and respected. your time has passed.

enigmaax;421241 wrote:For starters, LeBron's people contacted the Cavs prior to the show. You can let go of the "former boss found out on TV". It isn't true.

I am not contesting the validity of this statement one bit. However, I find it strange that the Cavs would not have leaked this to their fanbase before the ESPN Primetime show debacle to save a city a ton of heartache. If they knew, why wouldn't they spill the beans? Unless it was told to them moments before the show, but if that is the case, is that really better than hearing it on TV?

I think the world would be a better place without this type of person.

BigAppleBuckeye;421322 wrote:I am not contesting the validity of this statement one bit. However, I find it strange that the Cavs would not have leaked this to their fanbase before the ESPN Primetime show debacle to save a city a ton of heartache. If they knew, why wouldn't they spill the beans? Unless it was told to them moments before the show, but if that is the case, is that really better than hearing it on TV?

So let's say he did tell the Cavs in advance ... and they leaked it. Would people be as irate at them for ruining LeBron's announcement? Would you trust a scorned former employer with a big secret?

Aside from that, to answer your question, YES, it is better than hearing it on TV. The whole pissy premise is that he didn't let them know - they had to watch the show just like everyone else. He gave the courtesy call. Doesn't matter when it is, that is the formality that everyone is bitching about. Your statement just highlights the whole point in this, Cleveland fans are gonna be pissed no matter what happened, so he might as well have done it his way. Didn't make it any better or any worse, regardless of how much the fans want to act like it does.

BigAppleBuckeye;421322 wrote:I am not contesting the validity of this statement one bit. However, I find it strange that the Cavs would not have leaked this to their fanbase before the ESPN Primetime show debacle to save a city a ton of heartache. If they knew, why wouldn't they spill the beans? Unless it was told to them moments before the show, but if that is the case, is that really better than hearing it on TV?

The stories are that one of LeBron's people called the Cavs just as the show was starting. LeBron has the choice to sign with whoever he wants. He should at least be a decent enough person to call all of the teams that came to meet with him, and say thanks for the offer but I'm going to take a different offer. Then, he could have a press conference in Miami to announce it to the media.

enigmaax;421241 wrote:


Just to be clear, I don't see race as the big issue. The general sense that Gilbert acted like he owned LeBron, I completely agree with. Drawing a parallel to slavery is a bit extreme, but it is still a parallel. To simply say that there's nothing to the mentality because the guy was offered a hundred and however million dollars is weak - what was it that Marge Schott called her african american ballplayers? Gilbert acted like his money and the last seven years were some kind of ball-and-chain that should have kept LeBron in place.

And no, I don't buy the "it's how he did it" bullshit, at least in the case of Gilbert. There was much more deep venom in Gilbert's words and he made it clear that he hadn't just changed his mind about LeBron the person. He is pissed because his cash cow went to a greener pasture. Again, in that regard, LeBron was a possession of his, not a person.

Oh so wrong. Gilbert acted like the rest of us fans who felt like they were promised a bill of goods that went undelivered. You can deny all you want about what he (LeBron) "promised" the fans of the Cavs, Danny Ferry, Dan Gilbert all you want, the fact remains he promised something and he failed to deliver. Now, you may take the stance that he "saw the writing on the wall" and decided that his best option was to bolt to achieve his desired goals, I don't have a problem with that until you throw in the "I'm so fuckin' loyal it'll make you puke" facade. Now you have a liar who can't look you in the eye telling you some bullshit. We as FANS know now LeBron just didn't have the stones. He's a great, great, player there's no question about that. Gilbert would, as well as any owner,have looked past those shortcomings in hopes that he would grow into what we all hoped and thought he could be, after all, he's only 25/26. But to somehow, Jesus H. fuckin' Christ, draw some tangent parallel, to a slave master and his slaves is just about as stupid as anything to be belched forth from a crystal meth addict, crack smokin' idiot as you can come. My God, be fuckin' serious and listen to what the fuck this idiot is saying. You're a hell of a poster, and I respect your opinions, but hit the smelling salts, Jesse lost credibility when Tawana Brawly climbed into the garbage bag herself.

I guess your perspective would be different were you a fan of the Cavaliers. Pick one of your favorite teams and apply the same scenario. I know your take on "fanhood" and how it applies to everyday life, so maybe it's not applicable, but to the fans of the Cavs its demoralizing, a kick in the nads. Dan Gilbert feels the same way as we do as fans, he wants a winner for Cleveland in much the same way we do. You and ESPN can vilify him all you want, in the end, neither you nor ESPN, or anyone will change how we feel as FANS. LeBron hosed us.

enigmaax;421334 wrote:So let's say he did tell the Cavs in advance ... and they leaked it. Would people be as irate at them for ruining LeBron's announcement? Would you trust a scorned former employer with a big secret?

Aside from that, to answer your question, YES, it is better than hearing it on TV. The whole pissy premise is that he didn't let them know - they had to watch the show just like everyone else. He gave the courtesy call. Doesn't matter when it is, that is the formality that everyone is bitching about. Your statement just highlights the whole point in this, Cleveland fans are gonna be pissed no matter what happened, so he might as well have done it his way. Didn't make it any better or any worse, regardless of how much the fans want to act like it does.

The whole premise is that he had one of his dudes call the Cavs either minutes before or just as the stupid circus show was starting. That is classless.

I Wear Pants;421347 wrote:The whole premise is that he had one of his dudes call the Cavs either minutes before or just as the stupid circus show was starting. That is classless.

So, what is protocol for free agents in notifying their old teams? I might agree it was a dick move if he's the only one who has his people handle his communications. I think he is probably not the only guy who doesn't make his own calls to owners when its about a contract. Prove that he did something no one else would've done in that regard and you might be onto something.

enigmaax;421358 wrote:So, what is protocol for free agents in notifying their old teams? I might agree it was a dick move if he's the only one who has his people handle his communications. I think he is probably not the only guy who doesn't make his own calls to owners when its about a contract. Prove that he did something no one else would've done in that regard and you might be onto something.

I don't even think that it was the fact he had his agent contact the Cavs, I'm more disappointed in the fact that he ignored Gilbert's calls leading up to the decision. At least have one of your associates answer the damn call.

Also, THIS (and other similar things) is what Cleveland fans are the most pissed about:



Looks like he went completely against his word. THAT is why Cavs fans feel a sense of entitlement: not because Lebron played here for 7 years, but because he said blah blah blah all these things about bringing Cleveland a title and the quitting and bailing on us.

ytownfootball;421344 wrote:Oh so wrong. Gilbert acted like the rest of us fans who felt like they were promised a bill of goods that went undelivered. You can deny all you want about what he (LeBron) "promised" the fans of the Cavs, Danny Ferry, Dan Gilbert all you want, the fact remains he promised something and he failed to deliver. Now, you may take the stance that he "saw the writing on the wall" and decided that his best option was to bolt to achieve his desired goals, I don't have a problem with that until you throw in the "I'm so fuckin' loyal it'll make you puke" facade. Now you have a liar who can't look you in the eye telling you some bullshit. We as FANS know now LeBron just didn't have the stones. He's a great, great, player there's no question about that. Gilbert would, as well as any owner,have looked past those shortcomings in hopes that he would grow into what we all hoped and thought he could be, after all, he's only 25/26. But to somehow, Jesus H. fuckin' Christ, draw some tangent parallel, to a slave master and his slaves is just about as stupid as anything to be belched forth from a crystal meth addict, crack smokin' idiot as you can come. My God, be fuckin' serious and listen to what the fuck this idiot is saying. You're a hell of a poster, and I respect your opinions, but hit the smelling salts, Jesse lost credibility when Tawana Brawly climbed into the garbage bag herself.

I guess your perspective would be different were you a fan of the Cavaliers. Pick one of your favorite teams and apply the same scenario. I know your take on "fanhood" and how it applies to everyday life, so maybe it's not applicable, but to the fans of the Cavs its demoralizing, a kick in the nads. Dan Gilbert feels the same way as we do as fans, he wants a winner for Cleveland in much the same way we do. You and ESPN can vilify him all you want, in the end, neither you nor ESPN, or anyone will change how we feel as FANS. LeBron hosed us.

Honestly, I don't entirely disagree with a lot of what you say. My one question would be, what did he promise? Surely you aren't talking about a title. Because if you are, how long are you going to give Dan Gilbert to fulfill that same promise? And really, what did you want him to say? "I can never win a title here, but I'm gonna do my best to make sure we have the best record in the regular season for a few years until I can go somewhere that has other players more my caliber."

I just never got the impression that LeBron wasn't genuine when he was trying to represent the city and the state, for that matter. I also thought he was fairly straightforward the last couple years when talk of free agency came up. He said for a long time he was going to explore his options.

The problem for fans is that they forget that things change. People's goals change. People's opportunities change. The fact that he left doesn't mean that he didn't mean or believe those things WHEN HE SAID THEM. You guys want to argue that his legacy will be tainted because he went somewhere else. But you would be perfectly willing to accept his legacy being less than what it could be if it meant he stayed on a team that would never give him the ultimate fulfillment. He's selfish and so are you. The only difference is that he is making his own decisions and you are depending on some dude you don't know for your livelihood. Yeah, I find that REALLY goofy.

To be sure, I DO understand the way Dan Gilbert feels. He has a real investment in all of this. At the same time, judging by his statements, he compromised his own principles by keeping a guy he knew wasn't as wholesome as he tried to sell around. For what? Oh, for his own bottom line. For his own glory. So basically, he used LeBron to get what he wanted and was willing to overlook his character flaws, but when LeBron went somewhere else he tried to tear down his character. Hurt feelings or not, he is a hypocrite and just as big of an asshole. But rally around him if it makes you feel better. What has he really done for you besides ride LeBron's talent for your entertainment?

What I agree with you on, despite not questioning LeBron's genuity, is that LeBron has always been a product. He's always shown that knack to want to be a spectacle and he never really proved himself. He's a great player. He isn't Kobe. Because Kobe is a winner. But you could never tell a Cavs fan that. You'd be a hater. Now you are all saying the same things. But back then, he needed pieces around him. Now, he goes and gets pieces but since it is somewhere else, he's got no balls? No, he is still the same great player who has yet to win a title and until he does he can never believe entirely that he is "the King". Which is pretty much all he's ever wanted (and the dollars to go with it). Sure, it would've made the story extra special if he'd done it in his "hometown", but he didn't ask for that burden. He just embraced it. While he could. And then when it became obvious that wasn't going to work, he did what any person with a goal would do. Put himself in the best position to accomplish it.