Netanyahu will talk tough, but behind the scenes he will toe the line as much as he can. He knows that Israel cannot exist without our support.

stlouiedipalma;775008 wrote:Netanyahu will talk tough, but behind the scenes he will toe the line as much as he can. He knows that Israel cannot exist without our support.

What support? Obama has been the most anti-Israel POTUS that I can recall. His siding with the Palestinians will only harden Bebe, not make him acquiesce.

Lest we forget the last time Netanyahu visited the White House . . .

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7076431.ece

And now he gets a big ol slap to the face minutes before he and his staff depart for DC. If you want to bring up the '67 borders thingy during a private meeting, fine. But for Obama to throw that out the way he did was childish, and frankly not surprising.

stlouiedipalma;775008 wrote:Netanyahu will talk tough, but behind the scenes he will toe the line as much as he can. He knows that Israel cannot exist without our support.

With "support" like that, who needs enemies?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/20/us-obama-mideast-netanyahu-idUSTRE74I7L720110520

BGFalcons82;775100 wrote:What support? Obama has been the most anti-Israel POTUS that I can recall. His siding with the Palestinians will only harden Bebe, not make him acquiesce.

And why do we have a responsibility to prop up Istrael? I want to hear no bitching about foreign aid costs from anyone who thinks that we should support Israel the way we do.

I Wear Pants;775202 wrote:And why do we have a responsibility to prop up Istrael? I want to hear no bitching about foreign aid costs from anyone who thinks that we should support Israel the way we do.

Perhaps because...until Iraq and Afghanistan underwent change, it was the only Democratic and friendly country in the region. That made/makes it extremely important strategically in all types of ways.

Until we saw actual voting in Iraq happen, NOBODY in that part of the world had seen Muslims able to go to the polls and actually have a real voice in determining the elected government. The only place with free elections was the country most consider their worst enemy.

Now we have not one, but three (semi) function Democracies in the region...and I don't think it's a coincidence that we've now also seen uprisings throughout the Arab world as people struggle to gain more freedoms in their own countries, often at the cost of violence and death.

So there are lots of very good reasons to continue supporting Israel if the US wants to even hope for grassroots changes that may help eventually lead to more democracies forming, but a lessening of the influence of Islamofacism as people begin to have a taste of freedoms and see their neighbors (both friendly and not) enjoying what they aspire to.

If Israel was really about being a shining beacon of democracy then they'd either allow Palestine to be their own state or give Palestinians citizenship.

Israel has to protect its borders and its own interests in the same way the US does...and not everyone is going to agree with how they do it (in either case). That doesn't make them any less of a "shining example" than anyone else.

I Wear Pants;775219 wrote:If Israel was really about being a shining beacon of democracy then they'd either allow Palestine to be their own state or give Palestinians citizenship.

The federal government did not grant the American Indians full citizenship rights until 1924. It took us about a 150yrs. These things take time. After decades of fighting and killing each other there is a lot of bad blood. You don't just sit down one day and join hands and sing Kumbaya.

majorspark;775242 wrote:The federal government did not grant the American Indians full citizenship rights until 1924. It took us about a 150yrs. These things take time. After decades of fighting and killing each other there is a lot of bad blood. You don't just sit down one day and join hands and sing Kumbaya.

The federal government was very, very wrong in that regard.

I Wear Pants;775277 wrote:The federal government was very, very wrong in that regard.

True. But it goes both ways. It takes time to heal wounds. Lets say a foreign people start moving into your land. Conflict erupts and over the next couple of decades they beat your ass, kill some of your family, and drive you from your home. After you realize the futility of continuing on the fight and that you have lost your land and sovereignty to this group, how excited are you to become a fellow citizen of this nation of people?

More excited than I am to continue to be oppressed and treated as worthless.

jhay78;775173 wrote:Lest we forget the last time Netanyahu visited the White House . . .

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7076431.ece

And now he gets a big ol slap to the face minutes before he and his staff depart for DC. If you want to bring up the '67 borders thingy during a private meeting, fine. But for Obama to throw that out the way he did was childish, and frankly not surprising.

Childish? Why? I am so sick and tired of the American media hiding the bellicose and brutal activity of Israel. As for Obama....he didn't go nearly far enough. But kudos to him in saying fuck you to the Israeli invade and claim land bullshit. 9-11 never happens if it weren't for the US support of this country that has shown no respect towards us. Spying in our country...accepting 3 billion of our money per year, when they are are 27th richest per capita nation.

Here is a great article by Philip Geraldi. "Ten questions to ask Bibi..".

http://mycatbirdseat.com/?p=18014

Footwedge;775337 wrote:Childish? Why? I am so sick and tired of the American media hiding the bellicose and brutal activity of Israel. As for Obama....he didn't go nearly far enough. But kudos to him in saying fuck you to the Israeli invade and claim land bullshit. 9-11 never happens if it weren't for the US support of this country that has shown no respect towards us. Spying in our country...accepting 3 billion of our money per year, when they are are 27th richest per capita nation.

Guess we deserved 9/11 for supporting them darn Jews.

Footwedge;775337 wrote:Here is a great article by Philip Geraldi. "Ten questions to ask Bibi..".

http://mycatbirdseat.com/?p=18014

Wow this guy is an idiot and a kook. He thinks the Israelis had foreknowledge of 9/11. His ten questions are not questions but unfounded accusations. He has no credible sources to back up his claims. What a putz.

majorspark;775370 wrote:What a putz.

....and a shmuck

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM170_110515_battlegroundfullresults.html

http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=10715

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_US_0511424.pdf

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/05/obamas-post-bin-laden-bounce-gone/1

Footwedge;775337 wrote:Childish? Why? I am so sick and tired of the American media hiding the bellicose and brutal activity of Israel.

Nothing says "bellicose and brutal" like allowing the free exercise of any religion within Israel's borders, something that can't be said for any nation within a 1000-mile radius of Jerusalem.

As for Obama....he didn't go nearly far enough. But kudos to him in saying fuck you to the Israeli invade and claim land bullshit. 9-11 never happens if it weren't for the US support of this country that has shown no respect towards us. Spying in our country...accepting 3 billion of our money per year, when they are are 27th richest per capita nation.

Here is a great article by Philip Geraldi. "Ten questions to ask Bibi..".

[url]http://mycatbirdseat.com/?p=18014[/url

I nearly forgot about all the nations Israel invaded, causing the 1967 war.

Writerbuckeye;775502 wrote:http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/05/obamas-post-bin-laden-bounce-gone/1

Hey writer....did you catch the part in the PPP one where he is garnering double digit Republican support?

I Wear Pants;775327 wrote:More excited than I am to continue to be oppressed and treated as worthless.

Say the Israelis annex the West Bank and give all natural born inhabitants full citizenship. How do you think the Palestinians living in the West Bank react?

Probably about the same as they are now. Though it'd still be the right thing to do if allowing them to establish their own state isn't an option.

Here is a radical and risky idea that the Israelis should try. They should act on it unilaterally if necessary.

Allowing a full sovereign state in the West Bank is virtually impossible. Too many intermingled communities and Israel will not cede control of the border with Jordan nor the West Bank's air space. Jewish communities that have flourished over decades can not be dismantled. They will not be driven from their only known home without the use of force. The present physical situation on the ground in the West Bank can't be overlooked.

The Israelis have already removed all Jewish presence from the Gaza Strip. The most radical Palestinian elements are concentrated in Gaza. Concede full sovereignty to Gaza. Let them control their air space and coastline and borders as any sovereign state. Let Gaza become a full sovereign state. It will not be the first hostile state to border Israel.

Coinciding with Israels major concession to Gaza they should formally annex the West Bank. Offer full citizenship to all natural born inhabitants of the West Bank. Give them a reasonable time to apply for citizenship if they desire. Those that refuse and fall outside the time frame are subject to forced deportation. With Gaza out of the mix Israel with the West Bank would still enjoy a healthy Jewish majority although they would have to contend with a sizable and more powerful Arab minority.

Right of return is a fantasy. Time has past. The die is cast. It will never happen without the force of arms. Many of those that fled the fighting have passed on. Their homes have long since been destroyed and new structures and communities have replaced them.

Forced deportation seems like it would cause more trouble than benefit.

jhay78;775507 wrote:Nothing says "bellicose and brutal" like allowing the free exercise of any religion within Israel's borders, something that can't be said for any nation within a 1000-mile radius of Jerusalem.

Your statement here is so innaccurate it doesn't really warrant a response. People that practice religion in Israel that differs from their national religion are blatantly discriminated against. Some if not all are not allowed to vote. Pretty strange for a so called democracy, don't you think?

And secondly, you might want to google "Jews who live in Iran" or Syria, or Lybia for that matter. Not only are they free to live their religion, they have flipped off Bibi when he has asked them to come "home". Like I said, your innaccurate staement doesn't deserve a response.

I nearly forgot about all the nations Israel invaded, causing the 1967 war.

Did you also conveniently forget all the countries Israel has invaded post 1967? Or all the terrorist acts committed by Israelites pre 1948?