2quik4u;405873 wrote:dont matta La still winning it

Maybe. I've learned you can't bet against Kobe and the Lakers. With that being said, I want to see if Phil Jackson comes back and what they do with their role players in the offseason (who they let walk, who they bring back, and who they replace the guys who leave with)

wes_mantooth;405540 wrote:I would sperm if Bosh and Lebron ended up here....but I just cannot see it happening. Other teams have better situations for a sign and trade and a better cap situation. I think they end up in Chitown.

It doesn't matter. If Bosh tells Toronto he wants to go to Cleveland, then they have to grant that wish because ultimately, Bosh has to sign the contract to get the deal done. I mean, yeah, Toronto can just let him walk, but why not get something for him? Toronto and it's fan base doesn't have the connection to Bosh that Cleveland does to LeBron, so it's a different situation.

If Toronto could get Andy and JJ (Two players they LOVE, they've been after Andy since he first was an RFA) and a couple of expiring contracts, why wouldn't they?

Let's face it, while Delonte is a nice expiring, a team like Toronto may choose to keep him for the year anyway, simply because he's a good player. However, if they choose to do so, they could cut him by August 3rd and only pay 500k of his contract.

This is why many of the logical people think Cleveland (as long as LeBron comes back) is the frontrunner to get Bosh.

If Bosh tells Toronto he wants to go to Cleveland, then they have to grant that wish because ultimately, Bosh has to sign the contract to get the deal done. I mean, yeah, Toronto can just let him walk, but why not get something for him? Toronto and it's fan base doesn't have the connection to Bosh that Cleveland does to LeBron, so it's a different situation.

And what if Toronto tells Bosh that they have a better basketball offer that helps them more from a team like Houston (who has better pieces than the Cavs to offer and who wants him bad...he is from Dallas) and that he either has to take the deal to sign there or he loses 30+ million?

Toronto is going to open the bidding for Bosh up, and I can guarantee you that if a team other than the Cavs makes a better offer they are going to let Bosh walk before they take a second rate deal to help Bosh make his extra $30 million.

You ignoring that Toronto will have alot of cap room for next season if they let Bosh walk and don't take back any bad deals. That is why while they have said they would like to do a sign and trade, they aren't desperate enough to make a bad deal just to get it done because htey have cap space on the horizon in 11-12.

If I'm Toronto I absolutely engage in a game of chicken with Bosh because when push comes to shove I think he will sign with a team that isn't his first choice (if it makes the most basketball sense for Toronto in a sign and trade) before he walks away from 30+ million dollars as he is not Lebron or D-Wade and there is no flood of endorsement deals stuffing his pockets to make up for walking away from the money.

That's all based on pure speculation that Bosh is signing a 6 year deal to begin with.

Secondly, what pieces do the Rockets have that are better than the Cavs?

Fact is, nothing the Cavs give Toronto locks them up in a bad contract. It'll be expiring contracts and JJ + Andy. Toronto was salivating all over Andy before he signed his new deal with us.

IggyPride00;405989 wrote:And what if Toronto tells Bosh that they have a better basketball offer that helps them more from a team like Houston (who has better pieces than the Cavs to offer and who wants him bad...he is from Dallas) and that he either has to take the deal to sign there or he loses 30+ million?

You are making this sound like Toronto somehow could have the upper hand on Bosh here. Bottom line is they have to agree to where he wants to go or they lose him for nothing. That is far more important than him losing 30mil. Bosh can pretty much tell Toronto where he wants to go and they will have to make it work.

BR1986FB;405639 wrote:Plus WHY would Lebron go to play for WADE'S team? I'm sure Lebron is still going to want to be "the man." Miami is D-Wade's team.

Like I've said many times... Miami is Wade's team, but this is LeBron's world. Paper covers rock type of thing. By now, he should know that.

Can I see this proof of the Raptors being in LOVE with these guys? Who are these people that believe Cleveland is the frontrunner for Bosh? I haven't seen too much about either of those. Just asking, nobody get all pissed.

jpake1;406012 wrote:Can I see this proof of the Raptors being in LOVE with these guys? Who are these people that believe Cleveland is the frontrunner for Bosh? I haven't seen too much about either of those. Just asking, nobody get all pissed.

delusional fans who cant get over the fact that lebron is gone

I don't see Bosh coming close to Cleveland. If it happens, I'll eat my crow. I just don't see it one bit, not even with LBJ there and his 6 years. I can see him teaming up with somebody else in a more attractive place. One thing you have to consider is that a lot of times, you don't get equal value back, nor do the players want to take assets away from their new team.

jpake1;406020 wrote:I don't see Bosh coming close to Cleveland. If it happens, I'll eat my crow. I just don't see it one bit, not even with LBJ there and his 6 years. I can see him teaming up with somebody else in a more attractive place. One thing you have to consider is that a lot of times, you don't get equal value back, nor do the players want to take assets away from their new team.

this is a good point.

dave;406002 wrote:You are making this sound like Toronto somehow could have the upper hand on Bosh here. Bottom line is they have to agree to where he wants to go or they lose him for nothing. That is far more important than him losing 30mil. Bosh can pretty much tell Toronto where he wants to go and they will have to make it work.

um no, without toronto, bosh doesn't get max money. So the raptors have the upper hand

Without Bosh, Toronto doesn't get shit back then sucks for years, and possible gives the Heat a top 5 pick in the future. With Toronto, Bosh never wins a thing and isn't even discussed in the all-time great PF list. It goes both ways. It's a matter of who will actually do what they say. And from what I've seen, the Raptors haven't had much spine-- which isn't a bad thing in this case.

Meanwhile, what can the Cavs do for James now? Bosh would love to play with James. Bosh's team, Toronto, would prefer to put together a sign-and-trade deal rather than lose Bosh for nothing besides salary cap space. Toronto likes J.J. Hickson and Anderson Varejao, along with some expiring contracts such as those of Delonte West, Jamario Moon or Anthony Parker.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2010/06/lebron_james_big_decision_is_t.html

I didn't really search for much else, but I do remember that Toronto was wanting to sign Andy when he became a FA.

Is there anything from Toronto people saying it. Sorry, didn't click the link.

jpake1;406087 wrote:Is there anything from Toronto people saying it. Sorry, didn't click the link.

I dunno.. I didn't really look.. I just know that during FA last season, Toronto had their eyes set on Andy... That was before they were able to get Hedo though.

I also remember hearing Windy say that Toronto wanted Andy if there was a s&t between the two teams. This came about a week after Windy said the Cavs probably didn't have a chance at getting Bosh, ironically he changed his mind shortly after the Cavs called Toronto inquiring about the sign and trade scenario.

I know this sounds homerish, but the stuff Windy reports is USUALLY spot on. He called the Brian Shaw scenario a little while back and people on RCF were ripping him saying he's lost it...

Well...

Thing worth thinking about.

Bosh has made it clear he will not play center where ever he goes (he wants to play his natural position of power forward), and has been looking for teams with centers in place already.

If the mythical Bosh sign and trade to Cleveland were to happen, Andy and JJ would have to be included, and the Cavs would be left with no center. That is a non-starter with Bosh according to everything I have seen as he would almost have to play center for the Cavs seeing the limited options they would have of signing a new one.

That is why Chicago always made the most sense for him as Noah is the center so he would slip in at the 4 there. He apparently feels playing out of position has beaten him down physically throughout the past few seasons, and it is why he wants to put a stop to it.

I just don't buy into the Cleveland/Toronto stuff yet. They may have had interest when those guys where on the market, but a lot has happened since then. I'd like to hear something from the Raptors camp guaging their interest in those guys. Once I actually get educated on it, I'd definitely see the hype around the circumstances of those two cities. I don't pay much attention to Windy. He seems like a reporter, not a predictor to me. That's what I like... guys that think outside the box months before others do and see what can't be seen. I havn't seen much of that from him. I still like his stuff though. He's pretty good at what he does. Did he come from KSU, thought I heard that before.

haha, a little backdrop on Windy..

Went to ASVSM... Yes, that ASVSM.

Went to KSU, started at the Akron-Beacon Journal.

came over to the Plain Dealer when fuck face was let go.

The thing I like about Windy is that he's a realist and a pessimist. He doesn't jump the gun, which usually results in people back tracking.

When you look at ESPNS guys right now, they've back tracked quite a bit, especially Chris Broussard. ESPN seems more worried about "making" the news than reporting what's actually out there.

As far as the Cleveland-Toronto talks, this is Cleveland and we're cursed... It's 2012 everyday sports-wise here.

IggyPride00;406094 wrote:Thing worth thinking about.

Bosh has made it clear he will not play center where ever he goes (he wants to play his natural position of power forward), and has been looking for teams with centers in place already.

If the mythical Bosh sign and trade to Cleveland were to happen, Andy and JJ would have to be included, and the Cavs would be left with no center. That is a non-starter with Bosh according to everything I have seen as he would almost have to play center for the Cavs seeing the limited options they would have of signing a new one.

That is why Chicago always made the most sense for him as Noah is the center so he would slip in at the 4 there. He apparently feels playing out of position has beaten him down physically throughout the past few seasons, and it is why he wants to put a stop to it.

Not true at all.

The Cavs would still have the MLE to sign a defensive minded center, AND they could still bring back Shaq, especially if Brian Shaw is hired.

The Cavs are also looking to bring over Sasha Kaun, who has defintiely developed his game over in Europe and is considered one of the best centers over there right now. Plus I believe he's only 25 or 26.

From Yahoo Sports just put up:

Raptors look at Bosh sign-and-trade options

The Toronto Raptors have begun to assess which players they would try to obtain in potential sign-and-trade transactions involving free-agent forward Chris Bosh(notes).

Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo told a Toronto radio station he thinks Bosh “likely” will leave the team. Should Bosh decide to sign elsewhere, Colangelo also said the Raptors will try to engage in a sign-and-trade deal to bring the franchise some measure of compensation.

Sources said the Raptors will try to acquire draft picks and young players in return for Bosh. They would likely ask for forward Michael Beasley(notes) and point guard Mario Chalmers(notes) in any deal with the Miami Heat. If Bosh were to go to the Chicago Bulls, the Raptors like forward Taj Gibson(notes) and center Joakim Noah(notes), though Noah could prove impossible to pry from Chicago. If Bosh settles on the New York Knicks, the Raptors would try to engage in a double sign-and-trade that sends Knicks forward David Lee(notes) to Toronto.

Sources called a potential sign-and-trade with the Los Angeles Lakers “doubtful.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjwDvLiHsY_g1EVnK9QGfuI5nYcB?slug=ys-boshwade062910

There is a little more on the page.

Cavs are not mentioned as a possible trading partner.

Colangelo apparently wants young players, draft picks, and most importantly a major trade exemption. By trading Bosh to a team with salary cap room, they can get back a massive trade exemption for 10+ million as well as some picks without having to take on any long terms deals.

A trade exemption is actually what he covets most because it gives him flexibility to bring in a star player at some point, which is the most valuable thing he could get short of Bosh resigning (which isn't happening).

If what is being reported about what Toronto is looking for is true, then the Cavs are up a creek because Andy's 4 years and $32 million for a 28 year old energy guy seems to run directly opposite to the young player/draft pick/ cap flexibility no bad contracts theme of what they are looking for.

Miami would seem to be the team that best fits what they want. Beasely could be a stud if he screws his head on straight, and they seem to be looking at him hard. A pick, Beasely and a massive trade exemption in a sign and trade would help that franchise.

If the Cavs can trade for Bosh, I think they should go after JO. Most people think that's crazy, and even more when teamed with Bosh. However, he'll get you almost 2 blocks a game, give you some pretty good points, and a big body. That team wouldn't need much with Mo, LBJ, and Bosh being the big 3.

IggyPride00;406103 wrote:From Yahoo Sports just put up:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjwDvLiHsY_g1EVnK9QGfuI5nYcB?slug=ys-boshwade062910

There is a little more on the page.

Cavs are not mentioned as a possible trading partner.

Colangelo apparently wants young players, draft picks, and most importantly a major trade exemption. By trading Bosh to a team with salary cap room, they can get back a massive trade exemption for 10+ million as well as some picks without having to take on any long terms deals.

A trade exemption is actually what he covets most because it gives him flexibility to bring in a star player at some point, which is the most valuable thing he could get short of Bosh resigning (which isn't happening).

If what is being reported about what Toronto is looking for is true, then the Cavs are up a creek because Andy's 4 years and $32 million for a 28 year old energy guy seems to run directly opposite to the young player/draft pick/ cap flexibility no bad contracts theme of what they are looking for.

Miami would seem to be the team that best fits what they want. Beasely could be a stud if he screws his head on straight, and they seem to be looking at him hard. A pick, Beasely and a massive trade exemption in a sign and trade would help that franchise.

That's been my stance. A HUGE exemption is very important. They could possible get an AlJeff for that. I still think Beasley is a big asset. I think ALL GM's are trying to downplay his ability. He made bad choices before he ever played an NBA game and went through some depressed moments after. But you can't tell me NOBODY is interested in a 16/6 21yr old guy that played behind a top 3 player in a poor offensive system that benched him every time possible. He's still on a rookie contract!. How many guys produce as much as him as cheap as him? Let alone, at most, he's a one year rental. Toronto would be crazy to not accept him, their own first back, and another possible 1st, as well as possible Chalmers.

hoops23;406099 wrote: The Cavs are also looking to bring over Sasha Kaun, who has defintiely developed his game over in Europe and is considered one of the best centers over there right now. Plus I believe he's only 25 or 26.

http://www.cskabasket.com/team/?a=player&view=stat&season=58&p=14982&lang=en

Not exactly setting the world on fire. Stats for 09-10.

VTB League-9.7 and 4 boards in 7 games.(4th leading scorer)
Russian Playoffs-9.9 and 6.7 in 9 games
Russian Cup-12.0 and 4.5 in 4 games(2nd leading scorer)
Euroleague-9.1 and 4.6 in 21 games(5th leading scorer)
SuperLeague A-12.3 and 5.4 in 14 games.(leading scorer)

hoops...Do you visit any sites about any of the foreign leagues? I've tried looking for new ones since usbasket.com went to pay and havent found any good ones in a while.

Iggy seems to be making the most sense on this thread. I just can't see Toronto doing a S/T and the key piece they receive being Varejao. And one of the reasons they probably pursued him in the past is because the only players who will willingly sign in Toronto are foreign players, so they probably thought they had a shot.

Am I correct in that Cleveland can't use their 1st round pick in next years draft in a trade? People keep saying to include future draft picks in a S/T, but Toronto would be trading for a pick two years down the road, I just don't see it.

Windhorst had a chat this afternoon. Hres the recap posted by somebody from RCF

--------------------------------------

Shaw will likely be the guy. Scott doesnt seem as interested in Cavs as Cavs are in him.

Everyone has known Miami would have cap space. Nothing is changing. Little details are to keep interest among fans, but big details arent.

Its about money. Lebron, an athlete is his prime, will not settle for less.

Its fun to think about(Miami), but isnt likely.

Bosh is the happiest guy. Everyone expects him to leave. No backlash for leaving and will be with another star. Will be with Wade or Lebron.

Will wait for Lebron

Cavs have assets to do S and T with Raptors for Bosh

Raptors like Hickson a lot, Cavs offer salary relief in West, Like Varejao; Colangelo has wanted Varejao for years, still like Parker too.

Foolish to think cavs couldnt make trade for bosh

Lebron needs to sign first before Bosh comes here


Draft Cavs really weren't interested. Liked Bledsoe, Bradley, a few bigs. Not worth giving up player and money.

Waiting to make a sign and trade. Saving assets.

Feels Lebron may go long term. CBA stuff.

Age 30 Free agent, e.g. Kobe

Pierce opting out shows CBA is scary to players.


Worst for Ohio fans if he goes to New York

Knicks only have cap space, Cleveland, Chicago have better teams

Bullls rank high now. Not 2 months ago. Playing Bulls in playoffs put Noah and Rose on display. Lebron took notice.

Lebron has no fear of Jordan shadow, Lebron not so hot on their ownership would be issue. Never spend like Gilbert.

Co-exist with Rose? Both love ball in hand, No shooters in Chicago. Terrible shooters, just traded best shooter(Hinrich?)

New Jersey Players dislike Avery Johnson, lack of leadership in franchise, Still in Newark for 2 years. Not appealing. Jay Z all they have

Cant get any players now. Lebron needs to be here first. (reading between the lines Wont make deals to take on bad contracts if Lebron wont be here)

Cavs are handcuffed. Easy to have cap space.


Cavs will consider sign and trade of Lebron. Not likely. Rather Lebron walk.

No Lebron; not attractive to free agents. Make trades with cap space. Trade Jamison. Rebuild.

Gilbert will be an agressive rebuilder.