I didn't say that you did. Just curious what you'd give up to get those guys. This has been talked about quite a bit, so even if nobody goes out on a limb and says it happens, it seems like a lot of you guys think it'd be a damn good trade for both teams. I'm just not seeing it, that's all.

jpake1 wrote: What do you give up for CP3/Okafor? Some of you guys are some of the more popular NBA posters, but I am not seeing what you're seeing in this NO/Cavs talk. If I'm the owner of NO, nothing about that trade gets a phone call longer than 3 seconds when it comes to CP3.

The reason for NO to do this trade is simple.

NO will have CP3, decent attendance, but will never have enough $$$ to build a solid competitor around him. Sooner or later he is going to ask for a trade and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't hear it coming up. NO has a solid young PG in Darren Collison who has a rookie contract until 2012-2013 and will not make more than 2.3 million.

Secondly, Okafur's contract runs through 2013-2014 and he is owed 52.1 millon over the next 4 seasons.

NO will never be able to build around those guys because they simply do not have the money to go out and improve the roster.

Cleveland can offer to take on two large contracts while offering NO instant cap relief in West (4.1 million dollars), a package of expirings in AP/Moon/Telfair/Powe depending on who makes the contract work, JJ Hickson a young PF to be paired with Collison to build the team, and a major roster player if needed.

Plus, do not count out a 3rd team to sweeten the deal for all sides. If you get a 3rd team offering a younger talent combined with Hickson, then that makes it better for NO who needs to create cap space and start the team over.

All of this is quite obvious, but still... what do you give up for CP3/Okafor and their combined 26.4M?

jpake1 wrote: I didn't say that you did. Just curious what you'd give up to get those guys. This has been talked about quite a bit, so even if nobody goes out on a limb and says it happens, it seems like a lot of you guys think it'd be a damn good trade for both teams. I'm just not seeing it, that's all.

I don't think any trade involving your star player is good, but sometimes trades must be made based on the situation the franchise is put in.

NO simply does not have the money or assets to go out and build the team around CP3.

It's just offseason discussion man.

Once again, that is quite obvious they're hurting with money. But what do you give up to get CP3/Okafor and all their money?

devil1197 wrote:

jpake1 wrote: I didn't say that you did. Just curious what you'd give up to get those guys. This has been talked about quite a bit, so even if nobody goes out on a limb and says it happens, it seems like a lot of you guys think it'd be a damn good trade for both teams. I'm just not seeing it, that's all.

I don't think any trade involving your star player is good, but sometimes trades must be made based on the situation the franchise is put in.

NO simply does not have the money or assets to go out and build the team around CP3.

Especially since they have another great young PG in the making.

jpake1 wrote: All of this is quite obvious, but still... what do you give up for CP3/Okafor and their combined 26.4M?

A 3rd team would be needed imo to get the deal done and Ferry is used to finding a 3rd team.

But strictly Cleveland, you would be looking at Mo 9.3 million/Telfair 2.7 million expiring/West 4.6 million 500K guaranteed/Gibson 4,015,344 million/JJ 1,528,920 gets Cleveland to 22.14 million, add in cash or picks.

Instant savings of 4.1 million in cutting West before August. Another 2.7 million off the books with Telfair at the end of the year. Mo's salary also goes down to 8.5 million the next two years and he has a PO after next season. JJ has a team option for the next two seasons also.

Cleveland's roster:
PG: CP3
SG: Parker/Green
SF: LeBron/Moon/Williams
PF: Jamison/AV/Powe
C: Okafur/AV

I think Cleveland would try to buy into the draft along with getting a back up PG or SG via MLE.

Of course they do, that's why I talked about trading Paul long before people really started to mention it on here. Devil... why the change in thinking now? Not a knock by any means, you've just changed your toon a lot, what made ya do it? http://www.ohiochatter.com/Thread-2nd-Round-Pick-Marcus-Thornton?highlight=collison

Devil, you're killing me man. Just curious as to what the Cavs would give up for all that. Whether it by a 2 way or a 3 way.

Well, this is obviously a very rough sketch, and unless the Cavs want to give up half their roster, a 3rd team would be needed..

But I could see the Cavs parting ways with a combination of guys including Moon, AP, West, Danny Green, and Bassie...

I could also see a guy like Boobie being thrown in (good player and great 3 point shooter to stretch the floor off the bench)

Then obviously, JJ Hickson.

And if need be, a guy like Mo, who is owed 8 mill, but is on the books for this season and next season turns into a 8 million dollar expiring contract...

If Mo was traded though, a 3rd team would be involved because NO wouldn't need him at PG or SG..

Don't not include Jamison. He could very well be a part of the deal as well.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Don't not include Jamison. He could very well be a part of the deal as well.

Yeah, you're right about that.

His contract turns into a pretty big expiring deal after next season as well.

I agree that a 3rd team would be needed. The Cavs don't have the combination of money/assets to get those two guys. NO would want cap relief, young talent, and young talent as needed positions. All those names given really don't do much besides a bit of relief if they're expiring. Moon is old, AP is real old, West is a headcase, Green is just a practice guy, and Bassie aint' shit. Personally, JJ is nothing special thus far to me. I'm just not seeing it like a lot of you are. And Mo is the worst. His stock has gone DOWN. That's the kind of contract they are trying to stay away from. He'd be going to the 3rd team for sure, like you said.

jpake1 wrote: Of course they do, that's why I talked about trading Paul long before people really started to mention it on here. Devil... why the change in thinking now? Not a knock by any means, you've just changed your toon a lot, what made ya do it? http://www.ohiochatter.com/Thread-2nd-Round-Pick-Marcus-Thornton?highlight=collison

I just really liked the way Collison played at the end of the season. He impressed me more than I thought and I think he could be a solid PG for NO making only 2 or so million per year for the next 3 seasons.

jpake1 wrote: Devil, you're killing me man. Just curious as to what the Cavs would give up for all that. Whether it by a 2 way or a 3 way.

I just did above.

I just think there are a handful of other teams that have more assets that could make a 2 way happen or a 3 way.

devil1197 wrote:

jpake1 wrote: All of this is quite obvious, but still... what do you give up for CP3/Okafor and their combined 26.4M?

A 3rd team would be needed imo to get the deal done and Ferry is used to finding a 3rd team.

But strictly Cleveland, you would be looking at Mo 9.3 million/Telfair 2.7 million expiring/West 4.6 million 500K guaranteed/Gibson 4,015,344 million/JJ 1,528,920 gets Cleveland to 22.14 million, add in cash or picks.

Instant savings of 4.1 million in cutting West before August. Another 2.7 million off the books with Telfair at the end of the year. Mo's salary also goes down to 8.5 million the next two years and he has a PO after next season. JJ has a team option for the next two seasons also.

Cleveland's roster:
PG: CP3
SG: Parker/Green
SF: LeBron/Moon/Williams
PF: Jamison/AV/Powe
C: Okafur/AV

I think Cleveland would try to buy into the draft along with getting a back up PG or SG via MLE.

NO hangs up and laughs. That merely gives them cap relief. They can get that from a number of teams with better young talent.

Ok, for Jamison being added and jpake not believe NO would want Mo at all.

Jamison: 13,358,905 (15 mil expiring 2011-2012)
Hickson: 1,528,920 (team option next two seasons)
West: 4,600,000 (500K guaranteed)
Telfair: 2,700,000 (expiring)

That gets you also to the 22.18 mark with NO taking on salaries that will expire within two seasons or are not bad at all for the talent (JJ).

Add in a 2011 pick and cash. Jamison is a good talent for NO to use, JJ is an up and coming player even though jpake does not see it. West gets you immediate cap relief and Telfair can be traded or expires at the end of the season. The 2011 pick can be used in the later rounds to save money while still getting a quality player (see Thorton 2nd rounder) or can be used to trade up to a team looking to move out of the certain draft range.

That is just Cleveland/NO trade, no third team.

NO hangs up and laughs. That merely gives them cap relief. They can get that from a number of teams with better young talent.

Depends on if they see your thoughts on Hickson or if they view him as a true prospect with very good talent.

Also, what teams with better young talent will be able to take on both contracts while offering cap relief/picks/cash and veteran play?

There aren't too many teams right now willing to take on the luxury tax of two large contracts while giving up their young commodities.

Jamison makes no sense for NO. They've got West at the 4. Plus, that isn't cap relief if it doesn't come off for a couple years. They can just stay with what they have if that's the thinking. Paja comes off after this year. MoPete comes off. If they're dealing a top 10 player, they want immediate relief. I havn't seen much from JJ. He's still a youngin' and gets spoon fed from LBJ like a baby. He's a kid with potential. It'll take A LOT more than that to get a fuckin' true stud in CP3. West would be gone and only paying him .5M would be nice. Telfair is just an expire. There are several teams out there that could give them expiring like that with better young talent and better draft picks.

Who are these teams that would be willing to give up young talent and picks while taking on 26.2 million combined along with Okafur getting GUARANTEED 52 million combined for the next 4 years?

Considering in 2008-2009 there were only 7 teams that exceeded the luxury tax threshold, I highly doubt there will be plenty of teams that will be able to take on 26.2 million in two players while giving up their best young talent and picks.

devil1197 wrote:

NO hangs up and laughs. That merely gives them cap relief. They can get that from a number of teams with better young talent.

Depends on if they see your thoughts on Hickson or if they view him as a true prospect with very good talent.

Also, what teams with better young talent will be able to take on both contracts while offering cap relief/picks/cash and veteran play?

There aren't too many teams right now willing to take on the luxury tax of two large contracts while giving up their young commodities.

Just a quick rough draft:
Lakers (Bynum, Brown, Morrison, Cash, Picks) Allows the Lakers to get a stud PG since they have an aging one and allows them to get the most out of Okafor at the 4/5. Hornets do it IF they feel comfortable enough in Bynum's knee. I don't know if I would, but I know the NBA goes crazy for C's. I think they'd be really happy with a healthy Bynum to pair with Collison and West, along with getting Brown and Morrison's expiring. I really don't see that happening, but I like it more than any Cavs.

Mavs (Dampier, Butler, Beaubois, Cash, Picks) Kidd is aging and would give the Mavs a pretty good lineup with CP3, Terry, Marion, Dirk, Haywood with Kidd as the 6th man. NO might do it to get a real nice SF, a huge expiring in Dampier, and up and coming PG for depth.

NY: (Resigned Lee, Curry, Chandler, Cash, Picks) NY gets a big time player and can go after a JJ if everything else fails. NO gets a real good talent in Lee, huge expiring in Curry, an improving young SF (need greatly), plus some decent picks.

Rockets: Big reach, has to be 3 team (Lowry, Ariza, Jefferies, Cash, Picks)

A few other teams that have nice chips but would need a 3rd team.

None of those other scenarios sound much better than the Cavaliers approach to me.

You talk about better young talent, Bynum? You mean the guy who is too soft to become what he could be--which is the best C in the league. And a guy who, while young, has about 35 year old knees? I'd actually take a chance on JJ Hickson before Bynum if I were looking for young talent. JJ proved to be very good when he got his chance to start games and he was playing out of position. You're basically lucky if Bynum is even playing.

Hell, even something as crazy as the Spurs making a deal. If I'm the Spurs I think about taking on CP3, Okafor, and Posey at a combined 33M for Parker, Jefferson, and Blair for a combined 29.4M plus some cash and picks. I'd like a lineup of CP3, Manu, Posey, Okafor, Duncan. I'm sure NO wouldn't mind one more year of Collison learning behind a great talent that would expire, getting a solid SF that expires, and a future rebounding machine, plus the benefit of getting ride of the two bad contracts in Okafor and Posey. That sounds crazy, but crazy shit might happen form teams panicing to get a lot better than some possible dynasties in the making this offseason.