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Shane Falco
Posts: 440
May 21, 2010 4:10pm
^^^This !!jmog wrote:1. Not everyone is required to have auto insurance. Also, only liability is "required", which means if I hit you, my insurance has to pay for it. I am not required to have any insurance on my own car. Also, as others have said, auto insurance isn't a requirement, proof of financial responsibility is.Bigdogg wrote: Our company health care cost has averaged a 10% increase the last TEN years. All the while while the deductibles go up and the coverages decrease. Is that Obama's fault also?
Why don't you have a problem with the law requiring everyone to have auto insurance?
2. We don't have mandatory provisions for "free" or government run car insurance for those who "can't afford" their own car insurance.
I can't stand when people use the "car insurance" analogy, it just shows they truly don't understand. They are comparing apples to oranges.
Back to the porch now, Bigdogg!
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 21, 2010 6:08pm
The fact is private insurance rates WILL go up with ObamaKare. It's by design. Ultimately employers will drop private health insurance altogether because it will be far too expensive to offer.
Don't you see? That's the plan. EVERYONE will eventually be forced to buy-in on a true government-run single-payer socialist health care insurance program.
And the beauty of ObamaKare is if you opt-out you can be fined...even jailed. More liberties, freedoms and personal choice just flushed right down the crapper.
Anyone who bought-off on Obama's pledge that everyone could keep their current private plans is a fool.
Folks the Big Lie has only just begun.
Don't you see? That's the plan. EVERYONE will eventually be forced to buy-in on a true government-run single-payer socialist health care insurance program.
And the beauty of ObamaKare is if you opt-out you can be fined...even jailed. More liberties, freedoms and personal choice just flushed right down the crapper.
Anyone who bought-off on Obama's pledge that everyone could keep their current private plans is a fool.
Folks the Big Lie has only just begun.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
May 21, 2010 8:00pm
I don't hate Obama. But the shenanigans of the last few months ... well, let's just say that I am more disappointed and disgusted every day.ccrunner609 wrote: I hate Obama.
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zhon44622
Posts: 226
May 21, 2010 8:35pm
Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%
Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.
between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%
so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase
where was this outrage back then?
It seems as if some of you who refer to "FREE" healthcare being offered, jail time for non compliance, or use the mantra "ObamaKare" need to spend a little less time regurgitating their spoon fed talking points and a little more time actually gathering the facts for themselves
here is a link to a chart:
http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/picture-6.jpg
Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.
between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%
so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase
where was this outrage back then?
It seems as if some of you who refer to "FREE" healthcare being offered, jail time for non compliance, or use the mantra "ObamaKare" need to spend a little less time regurgitating their spoon fed talking points and a little more time actually gathering the facts for themselves
here is a link to a chart:
http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/picture-6.jpg
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
May 21, 2010 8:46pm
ccrunner609 wrote:He will go down as the worst president of all time.CenterBHSFan wrote:I don't hate Obama. But the shenanigans of the last few months ... well, let's just say that I am more disappointed and disgusted every day.ccrunner609 wrote: I hate Obama.
Ehh, doubtful. Remember those 19th century Presidents? Yeah, they were pretty bad.
Also, so far, I'd still put him ahead of Bush.
I also remember very vividly that the D's said that health premiums in the short term would go up, so not a surprise. But, I agree that the legislation was suppose to help cap costs and it did/ does not. That is my main reason against it.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
May 21, 2010 9:15pm
Looking at the dates you mention and the question you ask, I can definitely ask you a question, in order to answer yours.zhon44622 wrote: Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%
Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.
between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%
so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase
where was this outrage back then?
When, in those dates, did we have a healthcare bil that was by in large not wanted by this country, shoved down our throats?
This bill was, at the very least, supposed to be more affordable. There will be people getting insurance for free or at a greatly reduced price based on the tax dollars of others; much like welfare (medicaid).
Your post is, ironically, a regurgitated spoon fed talking point.
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zhon44622
Posts: 226
May 21, 2010 9:24pm
I guess you need to learn the difference between a fact used to support a point, and a factually incorrect claim repeated ad naseum to try and decieve the public of the FACTS.CenterBHSFan wrote:Looking at the dates you mention and the question you ask, I can definitely ask you a question, in order to answer yours.zhon44622 wrote: Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%
Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.
between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%
so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase
where was this outrage back then?
When, in those dates, did we have a healthcare bil that was by in large not wanted by this country, shoved down our throats?
This bill was, at the very least, supposed to be more affordable. There will be people getting insurance for free or at a greatly reduced price based on the tax dollars of others; much like welfare (medicaid).
Your post is, ironically, a regurgitated spoon fed talking point.
And while I hold no advanced degree in math, i would guess that blaming an increase of 10, 15, 25% on this bill would represent a drop of 12, 22, or 27% and therefore, by defenition "more affordable.
While it is true that there is no cap in this legislation, that was not part of the initial argument.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
May 22, 2010 12:34am
Steeling thunder loaned to me from On High .......... but nicely done.CenterBHSFan wrote: In my best Quaker Oats type:
::: ahem! :::
Change You Can Believe In!!!!!111!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!111
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 22, 2010 5:41am
You're just being nice!ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Also, so far, I'd still put him ahead of Bush.
Yeah and it was also supposed to actually reduce the deficit. :rolleyes:ptown_trojans_1 wrote:I also remember very vividly that the D's said that health premiums in the short term would go up, so not a surprise. But, I agree that the legislation was suppose to help cap costs and it did/ does not. That is my main reason against it.
Shhhhhhhhhhh.....I've warned you before that liberals implode when confronted with truth.CenterBHSFan wrote:Your post is, ironically, a regurgitated spoon fed talking point.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
May 22, 2010 8:55am
zhon, you totally missed my point.
People are bitching now because of the fact that the government is forcing yet another health insurance bill on the people. When rates went up before, people DID bitch and complain - but at least they knew that it wasn't government-forced.
Now, there's going to be hefty fines and/or jail time for not bending to the government's will.
Do you not see the difference? Or is that beside the point?
People are bitching now because of the fact that the government is forcing yet another health insurance bill on the people. When rates went up before, people DID bitch and complain - but at least they knew that it wasn't government-forced.
Now, there's going to be hefty fines and/or jail time for not bending to the government's will.
Do you not see the difference? Or is that beside the point?
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
May 22, 2010 10:41am
^^^This !!
Back to the porch now, Bigdogg!
[/quote]
Shane,
This is an adult conversation, please go back to the kid table.
Back to the porch now, Bigdogg!
[/quote]
Shane,
This is an adult conversation, please go back to the kid table.
F
Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
May 22, 2010 10:51am
The worst of all time? 50% think he's doing just fine.ccrunner609 wrote:He will go down as the worst president of all time.CenterBHSFan wrote:I don't hate Obama. But the shenanigans of the last few months ... well, let's just say that I am more disappointed and disgusted every day.ccrunner609 wrote: I hate Obama.
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
May 22, 2010 10:53am
If owning an auto was a right ( it is not) then the analogy between auto insurance and health insurance would be the same. Currently, those with health insurance are paying for people without insurance through higher premiums. Its all about increasing the size of the risk pool. Many of the things in the so called "Obama care" such as requiring everyone to have health insurance, public single payer have been proposed by both Democrats and Republican administration starting with Richard Nixon. The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
As for blaming illegal aliens and deregulating insurance, those are Rush talking points that have already been debunked.
As for blaming illegal aliens and deregulating insurance, those are Rush talking points that have already been debunked.
ManO'War
Posts: 1,420
May 22, 2010 11:00am
It's a privilege.
The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.
But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.
But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
May 22, 2010 11:53am
So your position is people with legitimate disabilities and children should not get health care unless they pay for it?ManO'War wrote: It's a privilege.
The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.
But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 22, 2010 12:16pm
If that's the issue then I believe we have a moral obligation as human beings to assist those in need including those who are ill.Bigdogg wrote:The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
But do I think you should pay for my health care by government edict? Hell no.
I believe we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I do not believe affordable (whatever that means) health care is a right.
Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
CenterBHSFan
Posts: 6,115
May 22, 2010 12:57pm
believer wrote: Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
That ultimately is the long and short of it.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
May 22, 2010 1:25pm
Bigdogg wrote:So your position is people with legitimate disabilities and children should not get health care unless they pay for it?ManO'War wrote: It's a privilege.
The only right you have to Health Care is for you to pay for it. Doctors, nurses, and those in the medical field don't work for free...someone has to pay them.
But I guess that will be up to the people who actually work and contribute to society..and pay for the deadbeats who don't.
Ummmm, less you forget that those people were already getting "free healthcare" on the backs of taxpayers and healthcare providers.
Just talk to an ER person and they'll tell you.
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
May 22, 2010 2:55pm
I said affordable health care, not free health care.believer wrote:If that's the issue then I believe we have a moral obligation as human beings to assist those in need including those who are ill.Bigdogg wrote:The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
But do I think you should pay for my health care by government edict? Hell no.
I believe we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I do not believe affordable (whatever that means) health care is a right.
Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
May 22, 2010 3:19pm
Bigdogg wrote:I said affordable health care, not free health care.believer wrote:If that's the issue then I believe we have a moral obligation as human beings to assist those in need including those who are ill.Bigdogg wrote:The issue really is do you believe affordable health care is a right (I do) or a privilege.
But do I think you should pay for my health care by government edict? Hell no.
I believe we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But I do not believe affordable (whatever that means) health care is a right.
Forced government-care may temporarily assist with the "life" part of that equation but it takes away the liberty and doesn't guarantee happiness.
Everyone has an opportunity for healthcare. Some choose not to have it, and would rather spend their money on TV's, cars, trips, cell phones, computers etc. Those typically are the younger crowd. Those that CAN'T were already taken care of by the system.
You're not making any sense with your statement. People HAD healthcare when they needed. it. Now, those that chose not to have are going to be FORCED to buy it. And yet those that can't afford it WILL STILL BE COVERED AS THEY WERE BEFORE.
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 22, 2010 5:24pm
Precisely my point.Mr. 300 wrote:Everyone has an opportunity for healthcare. Some choose not to have it, and would rather spend their money on TV's, cars, trips, cell phones, computers etc. Those typically are the younger crowd. Those that CAN'T were already taken care of by the system.
You're not making any sense with your statement. People HAD healthcare when they needed. it. Now, those that chose not to have are going to be FORCED to buy it. And yet those that can't afford it WILL STILL BE COVERED AS THEY WERE BEFORE.
Unfortunately we still have people out there who - for whatever mind-numbing reason - think the government should take care of us despite the negative implications to our right to free choice and personal liberties.
Amazing.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
May 22, 2010 5:52pm
I guess we all aren't blessed with the common sense button at this time. 
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 22, 2010 5:53pm
True but rest assured that ObamaKare will fix that for us one way or another.Mr. 300 wrote: I guess we all aren't blessed with the common sense button at this time.
J
jmog
Posts: 6,567
May 22, 2010 11:08pm
You suck at math.zhon44622 wrote: Between 1995 and 1999 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose 9.7%
Between 2000 and 2008 the average cost of a family health insurance policy rose close to 100% (double) at a pace that accelerated yearly.
between 2007 and 2008 the average policy rose 37%
so 10, 15, even 25% is actually a decreased rate of increase
where was this outrage back then?
It seems as if some of you who refer to "FREE" healthcare being offered, jail time for non compliance, or use the mantra "ObamaKare" need to spend a little less time regurgitating their spoon fed talking points and a little more time actually gathering the facts for themselves
here is a link to a chart:
http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/picture-6.jpg
2000-2008, going up to 100% sucks, but on a yearly basis that is "only" 9.1% per year.
If its raising by as much as people are claiming this year alone, its not a "decrease in the rate of increase", its being accelerated.
But hey, don't let the math facts get in the way of your rhetorical opinion.
You say something about others spoon fed opinions, and then post a link to "healthcareforamericanow.org"? Really?
believer
Posts: 8,153
May 23, 2010 7:05am
Biased leftist sources of information are always legitimate as opposed to spoon fed right-leaning sources of information which are never legitimate. See how that works?jmog wrote:You say something about others spoon fed opinions, and then post a link to "healthcareforamericanow.org"? Really?