sherm03
Posts: 7,349
May 18, 2010 2:05pm
The ironic part to me is that they were arrested for breaking and entering, but were unable to complete their prank because the library door was locked.
As stated above, most senior pranks involve getting into the school after hours. Why is this one different from any other year or any other school?
I'm not saying that nothing should be done. But I think the punishment should fit the crime. And a felony charge on their record for a dumb senior prank does not fit the crime.
As stated above, most senior pranks involve getting into the school after hours. Why is this one different from any other year or any other school?
I'm not saying that nothing should be done. But I think the punishment should fit the crime. And a felony charge on their record for a dumb senior prank does not fit the crime.
darbypitcher22
Posts: 8,000
May 18, 2010 2:14pm
you don't know for a fact whether they did or didn't use an "open" door
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
May 18, 2010 2:17pm
Indeed times have changed as stated.
I have no problem with the defined penalties being applied to the students.
I have no problem with the defined penalties being applied to the students.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 2:18pm
Defined penalties as in felony charges?Con_Alma wrote: Indeed times have changed as stated.
I have no problem with the defined penalties being applied to the students.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
May 18, 2010 2:20pm
If a felony can be proven, yes.
sherm03
Posts: 7,349
May 18, 2010 2:30pm
A girl hid in the girl's locker room until everyone left, then opened a door for the rest of the kids.darbypitcher22 wrote: you don't know for a fact whether they did or didn't use an "open" door
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100514/NEWS010701/305140005
sherm03
Posts: 7,349
May 18, 2010 2:34pm
For those that feel these kids should be charged with a felony, would you agree then that ALL of the kids should face similar charges.
I think that's where I have the biggest problem with this whole situation. The 8 kids that were 16 and 17 years old were charged with misdemeanor trespassing and curfew violations.
So if this was such a heinous crime and deserves a felony charge...why not charge the younger kids with a felony, too? Why is it OK to let them off easier than the kids who are 18?
I think that's where I have the biggest problem with this whole situation. The 8 kids that were 16 and 17 years old were charged with misdemeanor trespassing and curfew violations.
So if this was such a heinous crime and deserves a felony charge...why not charge the younger kids with a felony, too? Why is it OK to let them off easier than the kids who are 18?
tsst_fballfan
Posts: 406
May 18, 2010 2:45pm
I guess not. But I do understand the concept of an adult committing a crime!I Wear Pants wrote: ^^^ You don't understand the concept of a senior prank do you?
If the court decides community service is adequate punishment so be it, but it should not be predisposed for excusal or dilution simply because it was 'just for fun' or 'only a prank'.
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 18, 2010 2:47pm
Umm, intent is a major component of the crime to begin with. If they had a fair grand jury, they would not be indicted on felony charges due to intent.tsst_fballfan wrote:I guess not. But I do understand the concept of an adult committing a crime!I Wear Pants wrote: ^^^ You don't understand the concept of a senior prank do you?
If the court decides community service is adequate punishment so be it, but it should not be predisposed for excusal or dilution simply because it was 'just for fun' or 'only a prank'.
tsst_fballfan
Posts: 406
May 18, 2010 2:51pm
Unfortunately that is the societal line that has been drawn between a kid and an adult. The former being not as responsible and the latter being fully responsible for ones own actions.sherm03 wrote: For those that feel these kids should be charged with a felony, would you agree then that ALL of the kids should face similar charges.
I think that's where I have the biggest problem with this whole situation. The 8 kids that were 16 and 17 years old were charged with misdemeanor trespassing and curfew violations.
So if this was such a heinous crime and deserves a felony charge...why not charge the younger kids with a felony, too? Why is it OK to let them off easier than the kids who are 18?
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 3:04pm
So anytime a crime can be proven it should be prosecuted?Con_Alma wrote: If a felony can be proven, yes.
tsst_fballfan
Posts: 406
May 18, 2010 3:04pm
That may very well be the case. It depends on the intent in question. Did they intentionally hide in a locker with the intent to circumvent building security intending to commit B&E on a secured building that did not belong to any of the perpetrators? I would say yes. Did they intend on doing damage to said building or the contents? I would say no.LJ wrote:Umm, intent is a major component of the crime to begin with. If they had a fair grand jury, they would not be indicted on felony charges due to intent.tsst_fballfan wrote:I guess not. But I do understand the concept of an adult committing a crime!I Wear Pants wrote: ^^^ You don't understand the concept of a senior prank do you?
If the court decides community service is adequate punishment so be it, but it should not be predisposed for excusal or dilution simply because it was 'just for fun' or 'only a prank'.
Intent to commit property damage, theft, vandalism, etc., not guilty. Intent to commit B&E, probably guilty.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 3:07pm
So what's the problem with giving them community service?
LJ
Posts: 16,351
May 18, 2010 3:09pm
False. In Ohio a B&E is when you break in with the intent to commit another crime.tsst_fballfan wrote:That may very well be the case. It depends on the intent in question. Did they intentionally hide in a locker with the intent to circumvent building security intending to commit B&E on a secured building that did not belong to any of the perpetrators? I would say yes. Did they intend on doing damage to said building or the contents? I would say no.LJ wrote:Umm, intent is a major component of the crime to begin with. If they had a fair grand jury, they would not be indicted on felony charges due to intent.tsst_fballfan wrote:I guess not. But I do understand the concept of an adult committing a crime!I Wear Pants wrote: ^^^ You don't understand the concept of a senior prank do you?
If the court decides community service is adequate punishment so be it, but it should not be predisposed for excusal or dilution simply because it was 'just for fun' or 'only a prank'.
Intent to commit property damage, theft, vandalism, etc., not guilty. Intent to commit B&E, probably guilty.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.13
tsst_fballfan
Posts: 406
May 18, 2010 3:10pm
None if that's what the court decides is appropriate punishment for the crime they did commit.I Wear Pants wrote: So what's the problem with giving them community service?
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 5:39pm
Oh I see, you think whatever the courts decide is fair. Right.tsst_fballfan wrote:None if that's what the court decides is appropriate punishment for the crime they did commit.I Wear Pants wrote: So what's the problem with giving them community service?
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 5:41pm
Is moving books to a different room a crime?LJ wrote:False. In Ohio a B&E is when you break in with the intent to commit another crime.tsst_fballfan wrote:That may very well be the case. It depends on the intent in question. Did they intentionally hide in a locker with the intent to circumvent building security intending to commit B&E on a secured building that did not belong to any of the perpetrators? I would say yes. Did they intend on doing damage to said building or the contents? I would say no.LJ wrote:Umm, intent is a major component of the crime to begin with. If they had a fair grand jury, they would not be indicted on felony charges due to intent.tsst_fballfan wrote:I guess not. But I do understand the concept of an adult committing a crime!I Wear Pants wrote: ^^^ You don't understand the concept of a senior prank do you?
If the court decides community service is adequate punishment so be it, but it should not be predisposed for excusal or dilution simply because it was 'just for fun' or 'only a prank'.
Intent to commit property damage, theft, vandalism, etc., not guilty. Intent to commit B&E, probably guilty.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.13
I guess it could be considered vandalism but I'm hoping the school/prosecutes don't see it as such. Make a deal for no charges in exchange for x hours of community service.
darbypitcher22
Posts: 8,000
May 18, 2010 7:23pm
you know its not going to be that easy for anyone. I'm sure the school district also warned the kids in advance about senior pranks, with consequences for anyone who tried to pull one(at least this is the way it used to be at my school, you could forget about walking for graduation if they caught you)
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 9:34pm
Okay. Don't let them walk, make them do community service. But for Christ's sake don't charge them with a felony. That helps absolutely no one.
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Gardens35
Posts: 4,929
May 18, 2010 9:57pm
The 12 "Adults" were charged with B&E and Resisting Arrest, the 8 "Juveniles" were charged with Trespassing and Curfew Violation. Seems that the police took a heavy handed approach to those 18 years and older. Makes little sense.
GOONx19
Posts: 7,147
May 18, 2010 9:58pm
We were told we wouldn't be allowed to walk at graduation if we did a senior prank. That's fair. I guess it didn't really stop us though. We caught about 100 frogs and put them in random lockers, as well as filling the principles office with a couple dozen blowup dolls. No one got in trouble. That was just last year.
EDIT: We had to break in to do it, and nothing we did was destructive.
EDIT: We had to break in to do it, and nothing we did was destructive.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
May 18, 2010 10:07pm
^^^ This district/town would be trying to get you the death penalty.
Jughead
Posts: 1,261
May 19, 2010 8:53pm
Seems like bullshit to me. You are telling me that not a single one of the 8 "juveniles" resisted arrest but yet ALL 12 of the "adults" did resist?Gardens35 wrote: The 12 "Adults" were charged with B&E and Resisting Arrest, the 8 "Juveniles" were charged with Trespassing and Curfew Violation. Seems that the police took a heavy handed approach to those 18 years and older. Makes little sense.
Once again, if the students are charged to the fullest extent of the law, this will do nothing but hurt the school. :dodgy:
sherm03
Posts: 7,349
May 20, 2010 10:27am
Hamilton County Prosecutor asked the Grand Jury not to go forward with the felony charges and asked the Lockland Police department to charge the kids with misdemeanor trespassing charges. The charges get dismissed from their records if they complete some sort of diversion program and do community service around the school.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100520/NEWS010701/305200027/No+felony+charges+in+Lockland+prank
My favorite quote from that article:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100520/NEWS010701/305200027/No+felony+charges+in+Lockland+prank
My favorite quote from that article:
Tom Smith, 61, the father of Danielle Smith, 18, another student charged, said he was pleased with the decision by the prosecutor. "Them kids made a mistake, they didn’t mean to do what they did,” he said.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
May 20, 2010 11:12am
You don't have to read into my post or add to it.I Wear Pants wrote:So anytime a crime can be proven it should be prosecuted?Con_Alma wrote: If a felony can be proven, yes.
Take it for what is posted and not for what isn't.
Based on what I've read in this thread it's my opinion that if a felony can be proven in this case it should be prosecuted. It's unfortunate and seems a little ridiculous but at some point the message of the penalty not being worht the fun of the prank has got to resinate far and wide.
Penalties are defined and put in place fore multiple reasons. Sometimes it's for punishment. Sometimes it's for deterants. If the school does not want senior pranks to happen they may want to continue to push the penalty as far as they can and as far as they need to get them to stop.