The difference between our American ancestors who were immigrants and illegal aliens is this:

Our ancestors wanted to spend all their money here and invest their future into America. They wanted to buy a home to raise their family in. In essence, they wanted the "American Dream".

Today's illegals (by and large) want to send the vast majority of their money back to their home country. They only want to invest enough money to pay their 15 part share of the rent and enough food to get by. They have no intention of buying homes. They have no intention of going through the process, which is our law, of becoming American citizens. They are here to get what they can get for X amount of years and then they go home.
My heart doesn't bleed for those people.

Just got this in my email a few minutes ago

majorspark wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: You realize that the "real Americans" back then were using the same arguments that people are today? "They're lazy/unwashed/dirty/diseased/criminal scum/taking our jobs.". Literally the same arguments have been used against immigration since the country got off it's feet. I doubt many Mexicans are crawling through the desert, hoping fences, and wading rivers to get into the country simply to sit on their asses and do nothing.

True, but many of those in the past you refer to entered legally. No matter what ones motivation we have to have order. We have laws, we consider some stupid but we still obey them. We should expect the same obedience to reasonable laws of those who want to integrate into our society.

Agreed.

Pants- As I stated previously, the illegals are a drain on our economy and it is ridiculous and a slap in the face of those who have entered legally to compare them.

CenterBHSFan wrote: The difference between our American ancestors who were immigrants and illegal aliens is this:

Our ancestors wanted to spend all their money here and invest their future into America. They wanted to buy a home to raise their family in. In essence, they wanted the "American Dream".

Today's illegals (by and large) want to send the vast majority of their money back to their home country. They only want to invest enough money to pay their 15 part share of the rent and enough food to get by. They have no intention of buying homes. They have no intention of going through the process, which is our law, of becoming American citizens. They are here to get what they can get for X amount of years and then they go home.
My heart doesn't bleed for those people.

I agree with this post too.

Another huge problem is the drug trade associated with the open borders and illegals. Not all illegals are involved with the drug trade, but the border security is an issue and they will get caught as well.

Footwedge wrote: An excellent article from Justin Raimondo who discusses the situation from a libertarian perspective.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/04/27/south-of-the-border/

Damn good article. One thing that concerns me is his desire to cut-and-run from Afghanistan. If we learned anything with Iraq over the last 40 years, it is that we can't just leave terrorists to their own devices unless we want to deal with the negative results in the future. Regardless, there is more that must be done to secure our southern border. I don't think most Americans realize how dangerous the cartels are. The Mexican government may be on the verge of collapse.

Sykotyk wrote:
My, how easily our attitudes change.

Every American should be proud that others still want to come here by any means necessary.

Sykotyk

Legally, yes.

Terrorists would like to come here by any means necessary, and to slaughter all of us after doing so.

Sykotyk wrote:
...
Every American should be proud that others still want to come here by any means necessary.

Sykotyk

One of the great things about the United States is that nobody get to tell me what I should and should not be proud of.

jhay78 wrote:

Sykotyk wrote:
My, how easily our attitudes change.

Every American should be proud that others still want to come here by any means necessary.

Sykotyk

Legally, yes.

Terrorists would like to come here by any means necessary, and to slaughter all of us after doing so.

You really think that there are terrorists capable of doing that? I don't. They could at worst blow up a building or plane. Which would be tragic and we should continue to try to stop them. But to act like all of our lives are in danger is ridiculous.

BCBulldog wrote:

Footwedge wrote: An excellent article from Justin Raimondo who discusses the situation from a libertarian perspective.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/04/27/south-of-the-border/

Damn good article. One thing that concerns me is his desire to cut-and-run from Afghanistan. If we learned anything with Iraq over the last 40 years, it is that we can't just leave terrorists to their own devices unless we want to deal with the negative results in the future. Regardless, there is more that must be done to secure our southern border. I don't think most Americans realize how dangerous the cartels are. The Mexican government may be on the verge of collapse.

Iraq did not attack us.

Of course, this is not helping our relations with our ally to the South:
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/04/28/mexico_issues_travel_warning_for_arizona

The Mexican government Tuesday took the unusual step of issuing a travel alert urging extreme caution by Mexicans working, studying or otherwise spending time in Arizona. The warning came in response to that state's tough new immigration measure, which is to go into effect this summer, requiring people in Arizona to carry proof of their legal right to be in the United States and requiring police to check for it.[...]
"As was clear during the [Arizona] legislative process, there is a negative political environment for migrant communities and for all Mexican visitors," the alert said, posted in Spanish and English on the ministry's website.
Although details on how the law will be enforced remain unclear, the alert said, "it must be assumed that every Mexican citizen may be harassed and questioned without further cause at any time."

Now, maybe the Mexican government needs to do more, I think so, but in terms of diplomatic relations, this one hurts.
I'll admit, it has brought up the immigration issue ,lost since 2007, and forced politicians to take a stand/

Mexico is one to talk. No one is safe in Mexico especially Mexicans. They have no credibility. We ought to issue a warning to Mexican citizens in living Mexico that there physical saftey cannot be guaranteed and the they may be subject to random killings, rapes, and intimidation. LOL at Mexico. Also I don't give two shits what a foreign government thinks of our domestic policy.

The Mexicans also don't have much to talk when it comes to illegal immigration in their country. It is a felony in Mexico and they deport more illegals than the US.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mexicos-tough-anti-immigration-laws

I Wear Pants wrote:

BCBulldog wrote:

Footwedge wrote: An excellent article from Justin Raimondo who discusses the situation from a libertarian perspective.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/04/27/south-of-the-border/

Damn good article. One thing that concerns me is his desire to cut-and-run from Afghanistan. If we learned anything with Iraq over the last 40 years, it is that we can't just leave terrorists to their own devices unless we want to deal with the negative results in the future. Regardless, there is more that must be done to secure our southern border. I don't think most Americans realize how dangerous the cartels are. The Mexican government may be on the verge of collapse.

Iraq did not attack us.

where did he say they did?

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Of course, this is not helping our relations with our ally to the South:
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/04/28/mexico_issues_travel_warning_for_arizona

The Mexican government Tuesday took the unusual step of issuing a travel alert urging extreme caution by Mexicans working, studying or otherwise spending time in Arizona. The warning came in response to that state's tough new immigration measure, which is to go into effect this summer, requiring people in Arizona to carry proof of their legal right to be in the United States and requiring police to check for it.[...]
"As was clear during the [Arizona] legislative process, there is a negative political environment for migrant communities and for all Mexican visitors," the alert said, posted in Spanish and English on the ministry's website.
Although details on how the law will be enforced remain unclear, the alert said, "it must be assumed that every Mexican citizen may be harassed and questioned without further cause at any time."

Now, maybe the Mexican government needs to do more, I think so, but in terms of diplomatic relations, this one hurts.
I'll admit, it has brought up the immigration issue ,lost since 2007, and forced politicians to take a stand/

haha Mexico is doing nothing but encourage this behavior.

just curious what would happen to one of us if we ended up in another country arrested without a passport?

I Wear Pants wrote:

jhay78 wrote:

Sykotyk wrote:
My, how easily our attitudes change.

Every American should be proud that others still want to come here by any means necessary.

Sykotyk

Legally, yes.

Terrorists would like to come here by any means necessary, and to slaughter all of us after doing so.

You really think that there are terrorists capable of doing that? I don't. They could at worst blow up a building or plane. Which would be tragic and we should continue to try to stop them. But to act like all of our lives are in danger is ridiculous.

"would like to"- key words

majorspark wrote: Mexico is one to talk. No one is safe in Mexico especially Mexicans. They have no credibility. We ought to issue a warning to Mexican citizens in living Mexico that there physical saftey cannot be guaranteed and the they may be subject to random killings, rapes, and intimidation. LOL at Mexico. Also I don't give two shits what a foreign government thinks of our domestic policy.

The Mexicans also don't have much to talk when it comes to illegal immigration in their country. It is a felony in Mexico and they deport more illegals than the US.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mexicos-tough-anti-immigration-laws

Great point.

How about Mexico's immigration laws?

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/300995.php

My favorite part:

"Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics,"? That sounds, what's the word I'm looking for? Ah yes, RACIST!

majorspark wrote: Mexico is one to talk. No one is safe in Mexico especially Mexicans. They have no credibility. We ought to issue a warning to Mexican citizens in living Mexico that there physical saftey cannot be guaranteed and the they may be subject to random killings, rapes, and intimidation. LOL at Mexico. Also I don't give two shits what a foreign government thinks of our domestic policy.

The Mexicans also don't have much to talk when it comes to illegal immigration in their country. It is a felony in Mexico and they deport more illegals than the US.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mexicos-tough-anti-immigration-laws

You aren't alone in those sentiments.

CenterBHSFan wrote:

majorspark wrote: Mexico is one to talk. No one is safe in Mexico especially Mexicans. They have no credibility. We ought to issue a warning to Mexican citizens in living Mexico that there physical saftey cannot be guaranteed and the they may be subject to random killings, rapes, and intimidation. LOL at Mexico. Also I don't give two shits what a foreign government thinks of our domestic policy.

The Mexicans also don't have much to talk when it comes to illegal immigration in their country. It is a felony in Mexico and they deport more illegals than the US.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mexicos-tough-anti-immigration-laws

You aren't alone in those sentiments.

Agreed. I don't give a crap what anyone else outside the U.S. thinks about our country. We need to stop bowing to outside pressure and secure our freaking borders. Anyone else think that an American could go to any other country and sneak in and get the kind of resources and treatment that we give illegals in this country? They would be thrown in jail and quickly deported. We need to stop messing around.

dwccrew wrote:

majorspark wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: You realize that the "real Americans" back then were using the same arguments that people are today? "They're lazy/unwashed/dirty/diseased/criminal scum/taking our jobs.". Literally the same arguments have been used against immigration since the country got off it's feet. I doubt many Mexicans are crawling through the desert, hoping fences, and wading rivers to get into the country simply to sit on their asses and do nothing.

True, but many of those in the past you refer to entered legally. No matter what ones motivation we have to have order. We have laws, we consider some stupid but we still obey them. We should expect the same obedience to reasonable laws of those who want to integrate into our society.

Agreed.

Pants- As I stated previously, the illegals are a drain on our economy and it is ridiculous and a slap in the face of those who have entered legally to compare them.

CenterBHSFan wrote: The difference between our American ancestors who were immigrants and illegal aliens is this:

Our ancestors wanted to spend all their money here and invest their future into America. They wanted to buy a home to raise their family in. In essence, they wanted the "American Dream".

Today's illegals (by and large) want to send the vast majority of their money back to their home country. They only want to invest enough money to pay their 15 part share of the rent and enough food to get by. They have no intention of buying homes. They have no intention of going through the process, which is our law, of becoming American citizens. They are here to get what they can get for X amount of years and then they go home.
My heart doesn't bleed for those people.

I agree with this post too.

Another huge problem is the drug trade associated with the open borders and illegals. Not all illegals are involved with the drug trade, but the border security is an issue and they will get caught as well.

Legalize and regulate drugs and you solve that last problem.

I Wear Pants wrote: Legalize and regulate drugs and you solve that last problem.

you're right, the cartels would just close up shop and give up. wow, i didnt know it was that simple.

Glory Days wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Legalize and regulate drugs and you solve that last problem.

you're right, the cartels would just close up shop and give up. wow, i didnt know it was that simple.

There wouldn't be the need for people to grow/make the shit in a different country then and sneak it across the border.

Why grow weed in Mexico and have some dude sneak it across the border and have it distributed by shady, violent motherfuckers when you can just grow it on a farm near your location and sell it to a distributor?

I Wear Pants wrote:

Glory Days wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Legalize and regulate drugs and you solve that last problem.

you're right, the cartels would just close up shop and give up. wow, i didnt know it was that simple.

There wouldn't be the need for people to grow/make the shit in a different country then and sneak it across the border.

Why grow weed in Mexico and have some dude sneak it across the border and have it distributed by shady, violent motherfuckers when you can just grow it on a farm near your location and sell it to a distributor?

Because it would more than likely still be cheaper coming from Mexico than anything you would be able to buy in America, even if you grew it yourself (taxes)

not to mention, its the cartels way of life. they just arent going to stop something they have been doing since before most of us were born. they'll find something else, or like posted above, sell it cheaper than the taxed legal stuff.

CenterBHSFan wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote:

Glory Days wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Legalize and regulate drugs and you solve that last problem.

you're right, the cartels would just close up shop and give up. wow, i didnt know it was that simple.

There wouldn't be the need for people to grow/make the shit in a different country then and sneak it across the border.

Why grow weed in Mexico and have some dude sneak it across the border and have it distributed by shady, violent motherfuckers when you can just grow it on a farm near your location and sell it to a distributor?

Because it would more than likely still be cheaper coming from Mexico than anything you would be able to buy in America, even if you grew it yourself (taxes)

I don't know about you, but if I could buy weed off of a legitimate retailer rather than some dude in an alleyway or parking lot I would. Even if it came at a premium.

I Wear Pants wrote: Legalize and regulate drugs and you solve that last problem.

I understand your point. I lean towards personal liberty as well. But something to think about, just because something is legal does not mean men will not seek control of it. History is full of people killing people over legal commodities. Oil is a recent example. Turning regulation over to the government does not guarantee a solution to the problem. No entity on this earth has killed more people on this earth in order to gain control of a resource or commodity than that of government. Many governments in history make the drug cartels look like piss ants.

I get that but I don't think that the example applies to the drug debate. I really don't see a scenario where legalizing and regulating the drug industry would result in more or even as much violence than there currently is.

But we digress...back to talking about how the filthy, lazy, Mexicans are ruining the country.

tk421 wrote:

CenterBHSFan wrote:

majorspark wrote: Also I don't give two shits what a foreign government thinks of our domestic policy.[/b]

The Mexicans also don't have much to talk when it comes to illegal immigration in their country. It is a felony in Mexico and they deport more illegals than the US.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mexicos-tough-anti-immigration-laws

You aren't alone in those sentiments.

Agreed. I don't give a crap what anyone else outside the U.S. thinks about our country. W

Ugh, I can't this point of view. Whether you like it or not, the way the U.S. acts domestically does impact the way the U.S. power is perceived abroad. Why do you think countries could not stand the U.S. during the Bush years, cause we did stuff in 2002-2006 to tick them off. It is really hard to maintain economic, counterrorism, nonproliferation policies if we act stupid and tick off allies.

Also, I'm not sure we should be ticking off one of our largest trading partners either.

As much as they suck, we need Mexico to secure their parts of the border, to work with our DHS, Border patrol, ICE, etc. To send their military to subdue the lawless areas. We tick them off, we are on our own and can only defend 50% of the problem.

We can't do it alone. Saying, screw everyone else ignores the connectiveness of the world economy and world foreign policy issues.

BUT WE ARE THE BEST!!!!