Wasn't Arizona the state which refused to recognize MLK Day? This kind of legislation should be right up their alley.

stlouiedipalma wrote: Wasn't Arizona the state which refused to recognize MLK Day? This kind of legislation should be right up their alley.

Don't forget about New Hampshire. The last state to celebrate the MLK holiday. Keep trying to play the race card.

People are missing the point. The Constitutionality of the new law notwithstanding, what are the states like Arizona on the border supposed to do? They are being overrun with illegals from Mexico and the federal government either can't or won't come up with a solution. I don't understand why people are surprised that they are starting to take matters into their own hands, so to speak. If the federal government isn't going to do it, the states will have to.

70% of Arizona voters favor the legislation. Surely it is because they are racist bastard.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/70_of_arizona_voters_favor_new_state_measure_cracking_down_on_illegal_immigration

So what if it is racial profiling? The Mexicans got us into this mess, so the Mexicans can get us out.

Hey guess what...had a cop ask me for my ID tonight. For no other reason than I was drunk and walking with my friend and my friend fell on his ass in front of the cop. I picked him up. Cop asked for my ID. Of course I gave it to him, nothing to hide, but like I said--they can ask you if they want to.

They had probable cause to ask you for your ID.

i wonder if being unable to speak english to a cop could also be probably cause in this case. how are you supposed to identify yourself to a cop if you have no idea what the heck he is saying to you?

majorspark wrote: 70% of Arizona voters favor the legislation. Surely it is because they are racist bastard.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/70_of_arizona_voters_favor_new_state_measure_cracking_down_on_illegal_immigration

You forgot racist teabagging bastards.

I oppose illegal immigration, but I have to tell you that I am a little bit uncomfortable with any law that says the way you look racially is cause to make life difficult for you. What if someone decides to go after fat old men next? I would be forced to accelerate my weight loss program and go to Greecian Formula even more.

We need to lock down the border first, and then pass a law/constitutional amendment that eliminates automatic citizenship for anyone born in the U.S if neither parent is a citizen or legal alien.

That would cut down on illegals I think to an extent because getting the anchor baby here would no longer be an option which is what alot of Mexicans do who bring their families over illegally.

Then implement one of those national employment type cards they have talked about where if you don't have one it is illegal to hire you and make penalties against companies who use illegals punitive and stiff, and offer rewards to whistleblowers that turn in employers using illegals. If business is scared to hire them because they know the ramifications will sting if they are caught, it will again take out another incentive to perpetuate the status quo.

Finally, figure out how to deal with the status of the 15 million illegals here. It sounds great to say ship them back, but its not realistic. Reagan (the patron saint of amnesty) understood the same thing. The key is to find some way to at least not make it a pleasant process for these people, to become citizens as they did break the law. Make them learn English, fine them, but at least deal with the status issue so we can implement some new policies and move on.

I like the spirit of the Arizona law, but I am shocked there is anyone on the board that considers themselves a conservative that likes the idea of giving government the ability to hassle you because you're brown (I'm sorry....look illegal). Who's to say that that won't be expanded and abused beyond brown people to a whole host of other groups all under the guise of a very vague definition of "looking illegal."

Why would we not want gov't taking this problem into their hands, regardless if it's a federal or local or state gov't?? We've allowed gov't to take over an auto manufacturer, the financial sector, and now healthcare. What's so troubling about wanting to uphold the law??

Where in the bill does it say you will be hassled because your skin color is brown?? They will simply be cracking down on those they find that are here without the proper paperwork. Common sense tells me this is a good thing.

LJ wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: What isn't true?

that a cop can ask for your ID at any time for any reason.

What a cop can ask for and demand varies by state.

Apparently, the only consequence is jail, not deportation. So, I'm guessing this will lead to a huge influx of illegals in the jails which will cause the taxpayer more money for jail and legal costs. Also, it will open up a whole new population of people that might not otherwise join gangs, but do to pressure in jail, will join gangs, leading to more problems down the road.

It seems like a good short term solution, but it also looks like it just adds more people to the jails, more money for that and possible more gang violence as a result.

If they were serious about reform, they should have gone all the way and deport the people. If you are going this far, take the next step. Otherwise, they are not really changing much, just crowding jails and charging taxpayers more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/24/AR2010042402200.html?wpisrc=nl_headline

I Wear Pants wrote: They had probable cause to ask you for your ID.

What cause? The assumption that I'm drunk?

So long as the feds are failing miserably at this task -- I have no problem with the states doing what they feel is necessary.

Writerbuckeye wrote: So long as the feds are failing miserably at this task -- I have no problem with the states doing what they feel is necessary.

BINGO!

Fuck the feds.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

LJ wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: What isn't true?

that a cop can ask for your ID at any time for any reason.

What a cop can ask for and demand varies by state.

US Supreme Court says that a cop can ask you for some form of ID and all you have to provide is your name. While some states may say that you are not required to say anything at all, the Supreme Court says that the most you are required to give is your name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

So in other words, what I was saying is that a cop cannot require you to show your ID, all that can ask is for you to identify yourself, per the U.S. Supreme Court. You do not have to show them your ID. I am assuming that by saying "just provide your name" means answering a few simple questions like DOB.

Ohio Law

(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.

Arizona Law

It is unlawful for a person, after being advised that the person's refusal to answer is unlawful, to fail or refuse to state the person's true full name on request of a peace officer who has lawfully detained the person based on reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime. A person detained under this section shall state the person's true full name, but shall not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of a peace officer.

So in other words, no, in Arizona, a cop cannot just stop a person and require to see an ID.

That's not what I said. I said they could ask. I agreed you could refuse. But who isn't going to provide it? Someone who has something to hide. If not, you're just causing problems anyways. Just sayin', regardless of what the law says they're allowed to ask you for it. And the vast majority of the time people will provide it.

SQ_Crazies wrote: That's not what I said. I said they could ask. I agreed you could refuse. But who isn't going to provide it? Someone who has something to hide. If not, you're just causing problems anyways. Just sayin', regardless of what the law says they're allowed to ask you for it. And the vast majority of the time people will provide it.

and once again you are arguing with thin air. You aren't saying anything different, just in a different way.

I would not provide my ID to a cop who just randomly tried to stop and identify me, I would give him my name. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

LJ wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: That's not what I said. I said they could ask. I agreed you could refuse. But who isn't going to provide it? Someone who has something to hide. If not, you're just causing problems anyways. Just sayin', regardless of what the law says they're allowed to ask you for it. And the vast majority of the time people will provide it.

and once again you are arguing with thin air. You aren't saying anything different, just in a different way.

I would not provide my ID to a cop who just randomly tried to stop and identify me, I would give him my name. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

haha then why not give him your ID if you have nothing to hide. unless your purpose is to waste both your time and his time while he has to call in your name and other information and wait for it to come back. while instead you can just show him your ID and be on your merry way.

Glory Days wrote:

LJ wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: That's not what I said. I said they could ask. I agreed you could refuse. But who isn't going to provide it? Someone who has something to hide. If not, you're just causing problems anyways. Just sayin', regardless of what the law says they're allowed to ask you for it. And the vast majority of the time people will provide it.

and once again you are arguing with thin air. You aren't saying anything different, just in a different way.

I would not provide my ID to a cop who just randomly tried to stop and identify me, I would give him my name. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

haha then why not give him your ID if you have nothing to hide. unless your purpose is to waste both your time and his time while he has to call in your name and other information and wait for it to come back. while instead you can just show him your ID and be on your merry way.

Because I can? I'm not a fan of getting profiled or questioned for no reason. I always think it's funny when people say "it's just easier to give up your rights". Just like when I have told cops that they cannot search my car.

searching your car and a driver's license is apples and oranges. depending on where you are at, they will just pull up your DMV info on their computer if they have one.

Glory Days wrote: searching your car and a driver's license is apples and oranges. depending on where you are at, they will just pull up your DMV info on their computer if they have one.

Good for them.

so just admit you are just trying to be an ass and waste their time.