Sykotyk wrote: Okay, so there's 14 cars driving each 5mph over the speed limit. One has a hispanic male driving with two other hispanic males in the car. The cop pulls him over (he was breaking the law, afterall). Then gives reason to believe he's not a US citizen and demands proof. Same with those in the car.

He did have lawful contact. He did break the law. But, the discriminatory nature of the law will allow B.S. like this to take place.

There's no other way around it than to say that white/black people will be overlooked, while hispanic/Mexican/brown people will be required to do something different.

That is discrimination. And that is illegal. Sorry, equal protection requires you treat them the same.

Sykotyk

tk421 wrote:

You can contract that right away. So fine employers who employ illegals more, even jail them. Crack down on fake ID places. So on and so on.

Uh huh, how likely is it that the federal government would ever do that? I have a better chance of getting struck by lightening. In the mean time, let's not worry about securing the border.

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

You can contract that right away. So fine employers who employ illegals more, even jail them. Crack down on fake ID places. So on and so on.

Uh huh, how likely is it that the federal government would ever do that? I have a better chance of getting struck by lightening. In the mean time, let's not worry about securing the border.

The state can enforce that...........

and again with the straw man....

No one has EVER said ANYTHING about not enforcing border patrol policies or even strengthening them.

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

You can contract that right away. So fine employers who employ illegals more, even jail them. Crack down on fake ID places. So on and so on.

Uh huh, how likely is it that the federal government would ever do that? I have a better chance of getting struck by lightening. In the mean time, let's not worry about securing the border.

The state can enforce that...........

and again with the straw man....

No one has EVER said ANYTHING about not enforcing border patrol policies or even strengthening them.

Please, we have thousands of border patrol, yet hundreds of thousands of illegals still pour into this country yearly. Clearly, they are doing such a good job.

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

Glory Days wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

hahahahahahahahaha WOW. i cant believe that. how do you know if they are illegal? the employer cant ask them, that would be discrimination right?

Glory Days wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

hahahahahahahahaha WOW. i cant believe that. how do you know if they are illegal? the employer cant ask them, that would be discrimination right?

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

sigh... You can contract rights away. So basically, if you are offered a job and a condition of employment is that you show proof of citizenship (you know, how LOTS of jobs do) you can either accept the job and show it, or you can deny the job and not show it. Quite the simple concept.

tk421 wrote:

Glory Days wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

hahahahahahahahaha WOW. i cant believe that. how do you know if they are illegal? the employer cant ask them, that would be discrimination right?

Yeah, can't ask them for citizenship when stopped by the police but they can ask when hiring? I don't think so.

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

sigh... You can contract rights away. So basically, if you are offered a job and a condition of employment is that you show proof of citizenship (you know, how LOTS of jobs do) you can either accept the job and show it, or you can deny the job and not show it. Quite the simple concept.

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

sigh... You can contract rights away. So basically, if you are offered a job and a condition of employment is that you show proof of citizenship (you know, how LOTS of jobs do) you can either accept the job and show it, or you can deny the job and not show it. Quite the simple concept.

Uh huh, I'm sure those illegals are signing contracts before starting their jobs.

Glory Days wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

sigh... You can contract rights away. So basically, if you are offered a job and a condition of employment is that you show proof of citizenship (you know, how LOTS of jobs do) you can either accept the job and show it, or you can deny the job and not show it. Quite the simple concept.

you are assuming they will be hired in the books etc.

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

sigh... You can contract rights away. So basically, if you are offered a job and a condition of employment is that you show proof of citizenship (you know, how LOTS of jobs do) you can either accept the job and show it, or you can deny the job and not show it. Quite the simple concept.

Uh huh, I'm sure those illegals are signing contracts before starting their jobs.

LOL WHAT?!

They don't have to sign anything.... The employer says "a condition to you getting this job is that you have to show proof of citizenship". At that point they either take the job and show proof, or they deny the job and don't show proof.

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

LJ wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: I think jail time for knowingly hiring illegals would go a lot further to stop the problem then fines or this bill.

That would require the government do something, which they have shown they won't do. So, that idea is out.

The state can enforce that, so that idea is definitely back on the table.

So, how does the state know if someone hired illegal aliens if no one can ask for citizenship? How exactly does that work? After all, can't ask them for a green card if they are pulled over, I doubt they are asking for one when they hire them. I don't see this working too well.

sigh... You can contract rights away. So basically, if you are offered a job and a condition of employment is that you show proof of citizenship (you know, how LOTS of jobs do) you can either accept the job and show it, or you can deny the job and not show it. Quite the simple concept.

Uh huh, I'm sure those illegals are signing contracts before starting their jobs.

LOL WHAT?!

They don't have to sign anything.... The employer says "a condition to you getting this job is that you have to show proof of citizenship". At that point they either take the job and show proof, or they deny the job and don't show proof.

Are you serious? You actually think employers are doing that? If they did, we wouldn't be having this problem. Really.

Glory Days wrote: dont business have a presumption of innocence too? why should they have to prove if their employees are legal or not?

Glory Days wrote: for some reason, Starship Troopers popped into my head "Service guarantees citizenship!"