When I was at BGSU a Holocaust survivor was speaking at the Student Union.

Neo-Nazis from Toledo came down and to protest her. They had their signs and their Nazi Arm bands and the like. White Suprimest (sp?) are right wing conservatives.

How about the Anti-Abortion people comming onto campus with pictures of dead fetuses and their semi truck driving around with a giant picture of a fetus. They also do this in front of abortion clinics.

And on any given day there was some nut job screaming through a megaphone telling me how God hates me and our liberal views are ruining this country.

What would you call this?

Since I'm the token gay member of this blog, I guess I have to put in my two cents.

I totally oppose what these gays and lesbians did to the president. He is the most pro-gay leader we have ever had, and we should be grateful that he is in power instead of jackasses like McCain or Palin or Bush. Obama did us a huge favor just a few days ago by giving us hospital visitation rights. We should respect him for that.

To make my position very clear, just because I am a part of the local gay community doesn't mean I have to like everything I see. I would never shout down President Obama nor would I encourage anyone else to do so.

Writerbuckeye wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote:

CenterBHSFan wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote:

Writerbuckeye wrote: Here's a pretty good article on the subject as it relates to college campuses.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-11-29/opinion/17318484_1_free-speech-minuteman-project-speakers

I think your problem here is with young people (who happen to be on college campuses) not liberals.

You might want to check out the recent history of Berkley, a very liberal college and the violence and the intimidation that goes on there. Yes, it's about being very young but it's also about being extremely liberal also.

I would expect similar heckling if Obama would go talk at say, Ashland University or some other conservative college.

I'll await some documentation of such stuff if/when it happens. But right now, it's not happening...and if it is, I am dead certain it would be making the news.

Well it isn't gonna happen because Ashland is a conservative thinktank. The Ashbrook program there regularly has conservative figureheads speak (not that there is a problem with that it's their gig but I just don't see them having Obama speak anytime soon).

They're having Mitt Romney speak pretty soon and have in the past had (this is a list from their site): Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher; Associate Justice Clarence Thomas; Karl Rove; Secretary of State Colin Powell; President George H. W. Bush; First Lady Barbara Bush; Vice President Dick Cheney; Senator Lamar Alexander; Brit Hume; Henry Kissinger; Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu; William J. Bennett; Bill Kristol; William F. Buckley, Jr.; Pat Sajak; Tony Snow; and George W. Bush. And others including Glen Beck.

The program is actually very impressive.

bigkahuna wrote: Neo-Nazis from Toledo came down and to protest her. They had their signs and their Nazi Arm bands and the like. White Suprimest (sp?) are right wing conservatives.

Many would consider me a right wing conservative, yet I hold not one belief in common with white supremacists with regards to racial issues. Holding sings and wearing arm bands to spout bullshit is different than using the force of your voice to prevent others from voicing their opinions.

bigkahuna wrote: How about the Anti-Abortion people comming onto campus with pictures of dead fetuses and their semi truck driving around with a giant picture of a fetus. They also do this in front of abortion clinics.

Are they forcefully by any means preventing anyone from voicing their opinion on campus. First off how can a fetus be dead if it is was never a human life? Second how can a picture of a fetus on a semi truck bother anyone who believes it is not a human life? How about a picture of a chicken egg? Or a few blades of grass? Really what is the difference if it is not a human life? Is anyone being prevented by any means of force from entering an abortion clinic?

bigkahuna wrote: And on any given day there was some nut job screaming through a megaphone telling me how God hates me and our liberal views are ruining this country.

Did you believe him? Did he prevent you from voicing you opinion in a public forum? Otherwise ignore the shitbag.

bigkahuna wrote: What would you call this?

I would call this not one example of anyone using the power of their speech to forcefully prevent anyone in engaging in any lawful activity.

bigkahuna wrote: When I was at BGSU a Holocaust survivor was speaking at the Student Union.

Neo-Nazis from Toledo came down and to protest her. They had their signs and their Nazi Arm bands and the like. White Suprimest (sp?) are right wing conservatives.

How about the Anti-Abortion people comming onto campus with pictures of dead fetuses and their semi truck driving around with a giant picture of a fetus. They also do this in front of abortion clinics.

And on any given day there was some nut job screaming through a megaphone telling me how God hates me and our liberal views are ruining this country.

What would you call this?

Hmm, I don't buy Neo-Nazi's and other groups of that ilk are right wing conservatives. Nazi's are a blend of socialism and fascism. They are anti-capitalism, want more regulation of financial institutions, pro labor and call for government control of privately owned businesses.

What makes you think they are conservatives? I assume your opinion is based on their racial and ethnic views.

majorspark wrote:

bigkahuna wrote: Neo-Nazis from Toledo came down and to protest her. They had their signs and their Nazi Arm bands and the like. White Suprimest (sp?) are right wing conservatives.

Many would consider me a right wing conservative, yet I hold not one belief in common with white supremacists with regards to racial issues. Holding sings and wearing arm bands to spout bullshit is different than using the force of your voice to prevent others from voicing their opinions.

bigkahuna wrote: How about the Anti-Abortion people comming onto campus with pictures of dead fetuses and their semi truck driving around with a giant picture of a fetus. They also do this in front of abortion clinics.

Are they forcefully by any means preventing anyone from voicing their opinion on campus. First off how can a fetus be dead if it is was never a human life? Second how can a picture of a fetus on a semi truck bother anyone who believes it is not a human life? How about a picture of a chicken egg? Or a few blades of grass? Really what is the difference if it is not a human life? Is anyone being prevented by any means of force from entering an abortion clinic?

bigkahuna wrote: And on any given day there was some nut job screaming through a megaphone telling me how God hates me and our liberal views are ruining this country.

Did you believe him? Did he prevent you from voicing you opinion in a public forum? Otherwise ignore the shitbag.

bigkahuna wrote: What would you call this?

I would call this not one example of anyone using the power of their speech to forcefully prevent anyone in engaging in any lawful activity.

The last 2 examples I will admit are a stretch.

I used the Neo-Nazis however to show that these were what would be considered right-winged that were trying to keep the survivor from speaking. Their actions caused them to be removed from the presentation and asked to protest on the "Free Speech" area.
Some tried to say that a group of Pro-Gay are a good representation of the entire liberal side. Well, so are the Neos.
Do I believe that? No, but it's easy to find a sect on the political spectrum and have them be the basis for a blanket statement don't you think?

Little Danny wrote:

bigkahuna wrote: When I was at BGSU a Holocaust survivor was speaking at the Student Union.

Neo-Nazis from Toledo came down and to protest her. They had their signs and their Nazi Arm bands and the like. White Suprimest (sp?) are right wing conservatives.

How about the Anti-Abortion people comming onto campus with pictures of dead fetuses and their semi truck driving around with a giant picture of a fetus. They also do this in front of abortion clinics.

And on any given day there was some nut job screaming through a megaphone telling me how God hates me and our liberal views are ruining this country.

What would you call this?

Hmm, I don't buy Neo-Nazi's and other groups of that ilk are right wing conservatives. Nazi's are a blend of socialism and fascism. They are anti-capitalism, want more regulation of financial institutions, pro labor and call for government control of privately owned businesses.

What makes you think they are conservatives? I assume your opinion is based on their racial and ethnic views.

For several reasons
1. USUALLY Neos are associated with Fascism, which is USUALLY associated with the right.

2. Racial, Moral, Ethnic views for the most part yes.

I gave reason to my using the Neo-Nazis in my response to majorspark. It's easy to use blanket terms on an entire "side" by using a small sect of said side.

I would also argue than Anne Coulter is the Queen of shouting down an opponent and she has stated herself to be a hard starched conservative.

My point is that it is used by both sides.

You shout down an opponent when

1. You simply want to be heard

2. You know you're beaten and think that balling someone out will help you win.

bigkahuna wrote: I would also argue than Anne Coulter is the Queen of shouting down an opponent and she has stated herself to be a hard starched conservative.

My point is that it is used by both sides.

You shout down an opponent when

1. You simply want to be heard

2. You know you're beaten and think that balling someone out will help you win.

I've seen dozens of interviews/segments with Ann Coulter. I've never seen an example of her not letting her opponent finish his/her point before starting her rebuttal.

Is she abrasive and sarcastic? Yes. Ultra right-wing? Yup. She's also probably the best debater out there amongst the talking head class.

Writerbuckeye wrote: Typical liberal tactic to shout down someone when you disagree with them. This, of course, from the political folks who kept telling us that dissent is patriotic and freedom of speech is the most precious of all the freedoms -- unless it's something they don't want to hear, of course.

Fish,

I'm simply responding to this.

She is an intellegent woman, but as far as shouting down someone, yes I've seen her do it. Laughing, mocking....her opponent is done a lot.

She does let them finish and is good at getting her point across, but I am arguing that she does the same thing. Again, this is done by both sides. The left more than the right? Perhaps, but it isn't exclusive.

I find it funny that Writer cites a group of Cal students who are essentially "Trotskyites," and tries to play them off as an example of the left AS A WHOLE using those tactics in debate.

And then, he'll turn around and bitch about Tea Partiers and others on the right being unfairly labeled.

You're simply a partisan hack if you don't realize that both sides use this tactic, and both sides do it the same amount, BY AND LARGE.

I can't fathom how Writer can cite like two examples and his own experience and claim that his assertion is FACT because of it.

I've seen both sides do it in numerous different situations, and since that is my own experience, it must be FACT. If we're using Writer's logic.

You're exactly like the leftist media you so despise.

bigkahuna wrote:Do I believe that? No, but it's easy to find a sect on the political spectrum and have them be the basis for a blanket statement don't you think.

I agree. In fact there is a poster on here that loves to claim the tea party movement is the new klan.

cbus4life wrote: I find it funny that Writer cites a group of Cal students who are essentially "Trotskyites," and tries to play them off as an example of the left AS A WHOLE using those tactics in debate.

And then, he'll turn around and bitch about Tea Partiers and others on the right being unfairly labeled.

You're simply a partisan hack if you don't realize that both sides use this tactic, and both sides do it the same amount, BY AND LARGE.

I can't fathom how Writer can cite like two examples and his own experience and claim that his assertion is FACT because of it.

I've seen both sides do it in numerous different situations, and since that is my own experience, it must be FACT. If we're using Writer's logic.

You're exactly like the leftist media you so despise.

I cited an article that gave some examples -- but they aren't the only examples out there.

Both sides do NOT do this, by and large. If they do, you should be able to find me some examples like I provided. You'll have trouble doing so, because it's not a common tactic among conservatives.

No, I'm not like the media I despise for many, many reasons, not the least of which is I don't have a forum that reaches literally tens of millions of people with a slated and biased view -- sorry, as nice as this forum is, it doesn't reach that many people yet.

Bottom line is I was able to provide concrete examples of its use by leftists. If you can find similarly reported incidents on the other side, then we can debate.

Until then...all you've done is personally attack me without any ammunition whatsoever.

"A few examples" are pointless in this debate. I do not understand how you can make such a sweeping point by just citing a few examples and saying "there, i win."

It happens everywhere, on both sides, can't you see that? I've seen with my own eyes at pro-abortion rallies. I attended a talk in Cincy once where a democratic candidate was speaking, and it was well known that she was pro-abortion. This was at an outdoor event. As she started speaking, those trucks with the aborted fetuses rolled up, blaring on their horns and the like, therefore "interrupting" her.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but don't act like a few random examples mean that you're automatically right.

But, carry on, i guess.

Just trying to get across the point that, in my experience, and having been rather involved in democratic life for most of my college and post-college years, that i've seen it happen enough on both sides not to be able to make the claim that it happens more often on one side then the other.

Liberals can be douches, in this regard. As can conservatives.

majorspark wrote:

Many would consider me a right wing conservative, yet I hold not one belief in common with white supremacists with regards to racial issues. Holding sings and wearing arm bands to spout bullshit is different than using the force of your voice to prevent others from voicing their opinions.


Are they forcefully by any means preventing anyone from voicing their opinion on campus. First off how can a fetus be dead if it is was never a human life? Second how can a picture of a fetus on a semi truck bother anyone who believes it is not a human life? How about a picture of a chicken egg? Or a few blades of grass? Really what is the difference if it is not a human life? Is anyone being prevented by any means of force from entering an abortion clinic?


Did you believe him? Did he prevent you from voicing you opinion in a public forum? Otherwise ignore the shitbag.

I would call this not one example of anyone using the power of their speech to forcefully prevent anyone in engaging in any lawful activity.

1. I think I'm a moderate but compared to this place most people on here would call me a liberal but I hold no beliefs similar to those of left wing commie pinkos using their speech to stop people from talking.

2. He might have chosen different words than "dead fetus"...but dead might just mean the absence of life...hence a this chair that I'm sitting on is just as dead as a pile of flesh and bone tissue we refer to as a fetus.

A Giant Semi Truck driving around with pictures of Nickleback offends me. Whether or a not a blood covered fetus was once alive has no relevance as to whether it can be offensive. Any number of gross things could be on a semi truck and be offensive...giant pussing genital warts...severed body parts...poop mixed with blood and semen. The Steelers. use your imagination.

If you ask me...some of those townhall meetings were outrageous enough to stop people from speaking. I can remember a video of one where gents in the back were yelling at a meek women in a wheelchair...

God knows holy rollers use their speech to try to "force" preggos from engaging in the lawful act of abortion.

Are we really going to sit here and say that there aren't people who hold the beliefs in their psyche that we identify as conservative that aren't just as rowdy and inconsiderate as some on the left. We have got to be kidding here...is this really what we're arguing about? There are plenty of americans on all sides of the political spectrum that would rather yell loud noises than discuss point/counterpoint.

Here's Writer's childish point...and this guy's probably in his 50's I bet.

"Yeah, well, your side does it mooooorreee." :rolleyes: Ok, you win...people on the left talk down god-fearing, freedom-loving, conservative "real americans" more...now where do go from here?

Writerbuckeye wrote:

cbus4life wrote: I find it funny that Writer cites a group of Cal students who are essentially "Trotskyites," and tries to play them off as an example of the left AS A WHOLE using those tactics in debate.

And then, he'll turn around and bitch about Tea Partiers and others on the right being unfairly labeled.

You're simply a partisan hack if you don't realize that both sides use this tactic, and both sides do it the same amount, BY AND LARGE.

I can't fathom how Writer can cite like two examples and his own experience and claim that his assertion is FACT because of it.

I've seen both sides do it in numerous different situations, and since that is my own experience, it must be FACT. If we're using Writer's logic.

You're exactly like the leftist media you so despise.

I cited an article that gave some examples -- but they aren't the only examples out there.

Both sides do NOT do this, by and large. If they do, you should be able to find me some examples like I provided. You'll have trouble doing so, because it's not a common tactic among conservatives.

No, I'm not like the media I despise for many, many reasons, not the least of which is I don't have a forum that reaches literally tens of millions of people with a slated and biased view -- sorry, as nice as this forum is, it doesn't reach that many people yet.

Bottom line is I was able to provide concrete examples of its use by leftists. If you can find similarly reported incidents on the other side, then we can debate.

Until then...all you've done is personally attack me without any ammunition whatsoever.

Well next time I knock a girl up I'll bring my video camera to the abortion clinic mmmkay?

BoatShoes wrote:

majorspark wrote:

Many would consider me a right wing conservative, yet I hold not one belief in common with white supremacists with regards to racial issues. Holding sings and wearing arm bands to spout bullshit is different than using the force of your voice to prevent others from voicing their opinions.


Are they forcefully by any means preventing anyone from voicing their opinion on campus. First off how can a fetus be dead if it is was never a human life? Second how can a picture of a fetus on a semi truck bother anyone who believes it is not a human life? How about a picture of a chicken egg? Or a few blades of grass? Really what is the difference if it is not a human life? Is anyone being prevented by any means of force from entering an abortion clinic?


Did you believe him? Did he prevent you from voicing you opinion in a public forum? Otherwise ignore the shitbag.

I would call this not one example of anyone using the power of their speech to forcefully prevent anyone in engaging in any lawful activity.

1. I think I'm a moderate but compared to this place most people on here would call me a liberal but I hold no beliefs similar to those of left wing commie pinkos using their speech to stop people from talking.

2. He might have chosen different words than "dead fetus"...but dead might just mean the absence of life...hence a this chair that I'm sitting on is just as dead as a pile of flesh and bone tissue we refer to as a fetus.

A Giant Semi Truck driving around with pictures of Nickleback offends me. Whether or a not a blood covered fetus was once alive has no relevance as to whether it can be offensive. Any number of gross things could be on a semi truck and be offensive...giant pussing genital warts...severed body parts...poop mixed with blood and semen. The Steelers. use your imagination.

If you ask me...some of those townhall meetings were outrageous enough to stop people from speaking. I can remember a video of one where gents in the back were yelling at a meek women in a wheelchair...

God knows holy rollers use their speech to try to "force" preggos from engaging in the lawful act of abortion.

Are we really going to sit here and say that there aren't people who hold the beliefs in their psyche that we identify as conservative that aren't just as rowdy and inconsiderate as some on the left. We have got to be kidding here...is this really what we're arguing about? There are plenty of americans on all sides of the political spectrum that would rather yell loud noises than discuss point/counterpoint.

Here's Writer's childish point...and this guy's probably in his 50's I bet.

"Yeah, well, your side does it mooooorreee." :rolleyes: Ok, you win...people on the left talk down god-fearing, freedom-loving, conservative "real americans" more...now where do go from here?

People on the left are always giving lip service to the idea there should be more civility in political discourse -- well, how about stop talking about of both sides of your mouth and walk the walk.

Both sides put out the word in the media that shouting down people with whom you disagree is not the way to better political discussions.

You don't think if Obama came out and told college kids to stop preventing speakers with whom they disagree from speaking, that they wouldn't listen?

So, just to be clear...if I make the point that shouting down is a liberal tactic far more than a conservative one, it's "childish"?

Laughable and ironic.

But you said it was exclusive to the left.

Yeah, I'm sure that the crazies on the left are the only crazies that shout down people. :rolleyes:

BoatShoes wrote: 2. He might have chosen different words than "dead fetus"...but dead might just mean the absence of life...hence a this chair that I'm sitting on is just as dead as a pile of flesh and bone tissue we refer to as a fetus.

A Giant Semi Truck driving around with pictures of Nickleback offends me. Whether or a not a blood covered fetus was once alive has no relevance as to whether it can be offensive. Any number of gross things could be on a semi truck and be offensive...giant pussing genital warts...severed body parts...poop mixed with blood and semen. The Steelers. use your imagination.

Poop mixed with with blood and semen??? Lol. You sound like one speaking from personal experience. I kid.

If it was just a fetus in natural state that would likely not be offensive to anyone except those that felt some sort of personal guilt for getting rid of the fetus.

As for the gross things, point taken. I understand that pictures of a chopped up bloody fetus would be offensive to many. As would semis displaying chopped up human remains as an argument against murder would likely offend many or civilian casualties of war as an argument in opposition to war.

My point was meant to point out signs (even if they are offensive) by no means shout anyone's free speech down.

BoatShoes wrote: If you ask me...some of those townhall meetings were outrageous enough to stop people from speaking. I can remember a video of one where gents in the back were yelling at a meek women in a wheelchair...

I agree some did at townhall meetings. Although when it came to individual citizens shouting at a politician I have to admit I have always enjoyed it.

BoatShoes wrote: God knows holy rollers use their speech to try to "force" preggos from engaging in the lawful act of abortion.

You are going to have to be more specific here. What kind of force are you talking about? How do words alone force anyone from having an abortion?

Fags...

bigkahuna wrote: But you said it was exclusive to the left.

You must work for the left-wing media, given your "accuracy" on this.

I said it was "routinely" used by the left...and "almost exclusively".