YOU Make the Call

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ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 14, 2010 8:05 PM
The baseball is hit to left center field. Center fielder catches it in mid air just as he collides with the left fielder, which causes the ballglove of the center fielder to fall off his hand and onto the ground. The glove comes to rest on the ground facing up with the ball still in it. The ball never left the glove and never contacted the ground. The base runners are running with two outs BEFORE the pitch, and there lays the outfielders and the glove on the ground. The glove, with the ball in it, is laying all by itself. WHAT WOULD YOU CALL?

Can't find the correct ruling anywhere in the rule book.
Apr 14, 2010 8:05pm
BlueDevil11's avatar

BlueDevil11

Senior Member

1,911 posts
Apr 14, 2010 8:47 PM
I would have to call it a catch. Since the fielderdid not throw the glove or move it off of his hand intentionally, and the ball remained in the glove I would say the batter is out. What was called?
Apr 14, 2010 8:47pm
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bartsimpson

Senior Member

168 posts
Apr 14, 2010 8:55 PM
I also think that it's an out. I know you can't purposely throw your glove, but I don't think the fact that it fell off after the catch would affect the call.
Apr 14, 2010 8:55pm
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Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 14, 2010 9:17 PM
If the ball is not lodged in the glove and the glove came off accidentally, then play on, the ball is live. This dose not meet the definition of a catch, so it is not an out.
Apr 14, 2010 9:17pm
B

bartsimpson

Senior Member

168 posts
Apr 14, 2010 11:14 PM
talked to my brother in law who is an umpire. He's never had to make a call like this, but based on what he could find, it looks like a judgement call as to whether or not the catch was made BEFORE the glove came off. We can't watch the play so there's no way to know based on this description
Apr 14, 2010 11:14pm
ts1227's avatar

ts1227

Senior Member

12,319 posts
Apr 14, 2010 11:20 PM
I would think live ball.

Possession by the player all the way through the catch is what I believe would matter. Regardless of if it falls out of the glove, the glove falls off, whatever... the player is not controlling the ball.
Apr 14, 2010 11:20pm
Darkon's avatar

Darkon

Senior Member

3,476 posts
Apr 15, 2010 12:30 AM
Playere has to demonstrate control. This is a judgement call by the umpire.
If so it's an out.
If not, live ball.
Apr 15, 2010 12:30am
darbypitcher22's avatar

darbypitcher22

Senior Member

8,000 posts
Apr 15, 2010 11:07 AM
Player must demonstrate complete control of the baseball throughout the duration of the catch.

Live Ball
Apr 15, 2010 11:07am
S

Swamp Fox

Senior Member

2,218 posts
Apr 15, 2010 1:19 PM
If the glove comes off, doesn't the person who "catches" the ball have to demonstrate control all the way to the ground. If the glove is no longer on the outfielder, I can't see this being a legitimate catch.
Apr 15, 2010 1:19pm
I

iref iump

Member

36 posts
Apr 18, 2010 8:38 PM
Easy one. No control. No catch.
Apr 18, 2010 8:38pm
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 26, 2010 2:04 PM
Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.

I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.
Apr 26, 2010 2:04pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Apr 26, 2010 4:02 PM
3 steps with the ball in his glove isn't enough time to have considered maintaining control? I guess at what point do you consider the player to have demonstrated control and the catch to have been made? I would say if he was able to take a few steps and brace for contact with the ground he would have demonstrated control.
Apr 26, 2010 4:02pm
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 26, 2010 5:01 PM
Wooball wrote: 3 steps with the ball in his glove isn't enough time to have considered maintaining control? I guess at what point do you consider the player to have demonstrated control and the catch to have been made? I would say if he was able to take a few steps and brace for contact with the ground he would have demonstrated control.
You have not been paying attention have you. It doesn't matter how many steps he took. He has to have control throughout the whole catch and voluntary release of the ball.
Apr 26, 2010 5:01pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Apr 27, 2010 8:19 AM
I was paying attention. I understand it doesn't matter how many steps he took. I am assuming demonstrating control portion of this is a judgment call. At what point do you ignore the voluntary release? Say its the 3rd out of the inning and F8 catches a fly ball. Instead of throwing it in he plans on running it into the infield. He is talking to F7 and trips over the lip of the infield, hits the ground and drops the ball. No voluntary release. Safe?
Apr 27, 2010 8:19am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Apr 27, 2010 9:23 AM
Bigdogg wrote: Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.

I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.
You made the wrong call. You even call it a catch in your description. You know why the coaches were laughing? Because they probably played alot of baseball in their time and know it was a catch, unlike most punk ass umpires who were never good enough to play the game so they get their revenge by doing a job that makes them the center of attention.
Apr 27, 2010 9:23am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 27, 2010 10:33 AM
bases_loaded wrote:
Bigdogg wrote: Had a play similar to this over the weekend. Left fielder makes a nice running catch, takes a few steps then rolls to the ground and the ball falls out. He flips the ball to the center fielder while still laying on the ground. I yell no catch and signal the safe call. First baseman starts mouthing off that should have been an out. I respond he has to maintain control through out the catch and have voluntary release.

I Look in the dug out and both his coaches are talking to themselves and smiling at me like I am the dumbest umpire they ever saw. After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.
You made the wrong call. You even call it a catch in your description. You know why the coaches were laughing? Because they probably played alot of baseball in their time and know it was a catch, unlike most punk ass umpires who were never good enough to play the game so they get their revenge by doing a job that makes them the center of attention.
Yes having played and coached automatically make you an expert on the rules. Great answer, you are brilliant.

NFHS Casebook 2.9.1 C page 16
B1 hits a fly ball to F8. F8 gets the ball in his hands and it is dropped (a) When he falls to the ground and rolls over; or (b) When he collides with a fielder or wall; or (c) When he starts to throw to the infield. RULING: In (a) and (b) it is not a catch. In (c) it is a legal catch if the umpire rules that the ball was dropped as the fielder voluntarily removed the ball from the glove.

Try actually reading a rule book and not just guessing once in a while.
Apr 27, 2010 10:33am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Apr 27, 2010 10:38 AM
All I am saying is the fact that the coaches for both teams were laughing at your call and the fact that you had to come on here and ask if you made the right call (we have to go by your description btw) makes me think you missed this one. I will take the coach and players take on it over an umpire anyday.
Apr 27, 2010 10:38am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Apr 27, 2010 10:40 AM
Bigdogg wrote: After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.

This is all I needed to see. And the fact that the other coaches were laughing and shaking their heads makes me think you are regarded as a joke of an umpire and it wasn't worth their time to come out and argue with you.
Apr 27, 2010 10:40am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 27, 2010 10:56 AM
bases_loaded wrote:
Bigdogg wrote: After the inning is over, the third base coach from the other team says nice catch to the right fielder. I just shake my head and turn away.

This is all I needed to see. And the fact that the other coaches were laughing and shaking their heads makes me think you are regarded as a joke of an umpire and it wasn't worth their time to come out and argue with you.
You may be right or maybe neither coach knew what a catch actually is. Maybe you should get your license and start umpiring since you are so knowledgeable. I would love to learn a few lessons from an expert like you.
Apr 27, 2010 10:56am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 27, 2010 11:01 AM
bases_loaded wrote: All I am saying is the fact that the coaches for both teams were laughing at your call and the fact that you had to come on here and ask if you made the right call (we have to go by your description btw) makes me think you missed this one. I will take the coach and players take on it over an umpire anyday.
I did not come on here and ask if the call was right or wrong. If it makes you feel any better, a umpire that was waiting on the next game came up to me and told me that I made the correct call after the game was over.

I have missed my fair share over the years. Everybody has. When I do I resolve to get the next one right.
Apr 27, 2010 11:01am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Apr 27, 2010 11:12 AM
Bigdogg wrote:
bases_loaded wrote:
I have missed my fair share over the years. Everybody has. When I do I resolve to get the next one right.
I would hope you try to get them all right.

I would never want to become what I despise so much, the necessary evil that is the umpire.
Apr 27, 2010 11:12am
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Apr 27, 2010 11:29 AM
Do you have an answer to my scenario?
Apr 27, 2010 11:29am
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Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 27, 2010 2:54 PM
Wooball wrote: Do you have an answer to my scenario?
I have an out in your scenario. His action was not part of the continuing act of fielding the ball.
Apr 27, 2010 2:54pm
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 30, 2010 9:42 AM
Here is a good example of a similar play. The umpire got it right.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7725517
Apr 30, 2010 9:42am
stroups's avatar

stroups

Senior Member

3,223 posts
Apr 30, 2010 1:13 PM
Bigdogg wrote: Here is a good example of a similar play. The umpire got it right.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7725517
To me, thats a catch. He lost control when he was trying to remove the ball from his glove.
Apr 30, 2010 1:13pm