Bigred1995 wrote: I like the way this guy thinks!!!

I agree with you, Bravo to this man!

Holding money back fromthe diocese, very smart move. Money makes statements big time!

Bigred1995 wrote: I like the way this guy thinks!!!

that's awesome

That guy is peeing in the wind if he believes that the Pope stepping down would create any sort of accountability in the Catholic Church. I understand and agree with his decision to not forward money but again it won't impact the overall position of the Vatican.

He and his congregation should leave the Catholic Church if they truly want to stand by their convictions. Staying in such a denomination with the leadership that has have those types of views is as hypocritical as they are accusing the leadership to be.

If they act according to their convictions it will result in more than demanding the Pope to step down and withholding their contributions to the diocese.

Devils Advocate wrote: It's those damn sexy little alter boys...... They had it commin,

Not funny at all.

derek bomar wrote: this whole thing has just reinforced in my mind at least that the Church is a joke...I don't know what religious affiliation if any I will take up later, but count me out as a Catholic. I'll still go to the occasional Easter/Xmas mass, but that's for respect for my family and my girlfriend's family. The Vatican can SMD, and I bet they would if I were younger.

All people of the cloth that are pedophiles (abuse prepubescent kids) and hebephiles (those that have consentual sex with post puberty teenagers) are the lowest form of scum out there. Appropriately, those that perpetrate these crimes are finding themeslves in jail where they belong as opposed to being sent to shrinks for "treatment", that the psychiatrists sold to the Vatican as a way to "cure" these people. The psychiatrists also "sold" treatment to other religious denominationss that had the same problem, They also "sold" this "treatment" option to pedophiles from all walks of life, not just the religious bastards that were perpetrating the crime.

What people need to know...this problem, including alleged coverups were also going on with both the Protestant and Jewish religions at the same per capita rate. I am not defending certain aspects of what the RCC church did at all....but I am a little amissed at the one sided bashing that the Catholics are getting from the media, when in fact this is a horrible systemic problem for a small minority of ministers from all religions

From wiki...with citations and footnotes on who conducted the research and studies...

"Criticism of media coverage
Some critics of media coverage have claimed there has been an excessive focus on incidences of abuse[97] and that equal or greater levels of child sexual abuse in secular contexts or other religious groups have been ignored or given minimal coverage.[98]
According to Jenkins (1995), the emphasis upon sexual abuse committed by the clergy is a result of a shift in media coverage beginning during the 1980s. As a result, the image of the “pedophile priest” (Jenkins, 1996) was created and endorsed by the media and special interest groups in order to further their causes. While the media has portrayed this “crisis” as being centered solely in the Catholic Church, Jenkins offers evidence through the citation of liability insurance that illustrates that there were several hundred cases of sexual abuse involving non-Catholic clergy[99].
In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”[100]Among various reports countering a fresh spate of intense media coverage on this subject in March and April this year, Newsweek noted that "The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else." Based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. "We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else," said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others." Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums.[101]
Read the entire Wiki report here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I don't usually say anything much about various religions/factions that I don't practice.

That being said, most of the time the things I have said about the Catholic Church have been fairly benevolent. However, i will say this: The Church needs to accept and adapt to the fact that The Enlightenment happened.
I don't think that it needs to radically change its foundations, but I think it's time that they realize that it's ok to admit to being vastly wrong on this particular problem. The world would forgive them for admitting this. After the admittance, reform would swift and just and probably easier than the Church could imagine at this point.
I just was talking to my stepfather after reading the article about this this morning. He being a devout Catholic agrees with my thoughts. Something more than the moldy, feudal, archaic and ancient denial needs to happen.... now. He also believes that the world would become more accepting over time and the Church might even seen a greater inflow of constituents.

But at the rate that the Church is going, we'll never know.

Footwedge wrote:

Devils Advocate wrote: It's those damn sexy little alter boys...... They had it commin,

Not funny at all.

I may be going to hell, but I chuckled.

Footwedge wrote:

derek bomar wrote: this whole thing has just reinforced in my mind at least that the Church is a joke...I don't know what religious affiliation if any I will take up later, but count me out as a Catholic. I'll still go to the occasional Easter/Xmas mass, but that's for respect for my family and my girlfriend's family. The Vatican can SMD, and I bet they would if I were younger.

All people of the cloth that are pedophiles (abuse prepubescent kids) and hebephiles (those that have consentual sex with post puberty teenagers) are the lowest form of scum out there. Appropriately, those that perpetrate these crimes are finding themeslves in jail where theybelong as opposed to being sent to shrinks for "treatment", that the psychiatrists sold to the Vatican as a way to "cure" these people. The psychiatrists also "sold" treatment to other religios denominationss that had the same proble, They also "sold" this "treatment" option to pedophiles from all walks of life, not just the religious bastards that were perpetrating the crime.

What people need to know...this problem, including alleged coverups were also going on with both the Protestant and Jewish religions at the same per capita rate. I am not defending certain aspects of what the RCC church did at all....but I am a little amissed at the one sided bashing that the Catholics are getting from the media, when in fact this is a horrible systemic problem for a small minority of ministers from all religions

From wiki...with citations and footnotes on who conducted the research and studies...

"Criticism of media coverage
Some critics of media coverage have claimed there has been an excessive focus on incidences of abuse[97] and that equal or greater levels of child sexual abuse in secular contexts or other religious groups have been ignored or given minimal coverage.[98]
According to Jenkins (1995), the emphasis upon sexual abuse committed by the clergy is a result of a shift in media coverage beginning during the 1980s. As a result, the image of the “pedophile priest” (Jenkins, 1996) was created and endorsed by the media and special interest groups in order to further their causes. While the media has portrayed this “crisis” as being centered solely in the Catholic Church, Jenkins offers evidence through the citation of liability insurance that illustrates that there were several hundred cases of sexual abuse involving non-Catholic clergy[99].
In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”[100]Among various reports countering a fresh spate of intense media coverage on this subject in March and April this year, Newsweek noted that "The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else." Based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. "We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else," said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others." Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums.[101]
Read the entire Wiki report here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

so did the heads of other religions engage in a cover-up like the Pope did? Do other religions have the same history of cover-up and denial that the Church does? Just because this sort of thing is not a Catholic-only problem isn't the issue...the issue is how the Church is choosing to deal with it.

ptown_trojans_1 wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

Devils Advocate wrote: It's those damn sexy little alter boys...... They had it commin,

Not funny at all.

I may be going to hell, but I chuckled.

Maybe I'm a little too sensitive to making jokes regarding pedophilia. I know abuse victims don't find it funny.

Most victims of jokes do not find it funny.

I hope that you picked up on the absurdity of my post.

derek bomar wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

derek bomar wrote: this whole thing has just reinforced in my mind at least that the Church is a joke...I don't know what religious affiliation if any I will take up later, but count me out as a Catholic. I'll still go to the occasional Easter/Xmas mass, but that's for respect for my family and my girlfriend's family. The Vatican can SMD, and I bet they would if I were younger.

All people of the cloth that are pedophiles (abuse prepubescent kids) and hebephiles (those that have consentual sex with post puberty teenagers) are the lowest form of scum out there. Appropriately, those that perpetrate these crimes are finding themeslves in jail where they belong as opposed to being sent to shrinks for "treatment", that the psychiatrists sold to the Vatican as a way to "cure" these people. The psychiatrists also "sold" treatment to other religious denominationss that had the same problem, They also "sold" this "treatment" option to pedophiles from all walks of life, not just the religious bastards that were perpetrating the crime.

What people need to know...this problem, including alleged coverups were also going on with both the Protestant and Jewish religions at the same per capita rate. I am not defending certain aspects of what the RCC church did at all....but I am a little amissed at the one sided bashing that the Catholics are getting from the media, when in fact this is a horrible systemic problem for a small minority of ministers from all religions

From wiki...with citations and footnotes on who conducted the research and studies...

"Criticism of media coverage
Some critics of media coverage have claimed there has been an excessive focus on incidences of abuse[97] and that equal or greater levels of child sexual abuse in secular contexts or other religious groups have been ignored or given minimal coverage.[98]
According to Jenkins (1995), the emphasis upon sexual abuse committed by the clergy is a result of a shift in media coverage beginning during the 1980s. As a result, the image of the “pedophile priest” (Jenkins, 1996) was created and endorsed by the media and special interest groups in order to further their causes. While the media has portrayed this “crisis” as being centered solely in the Catholic Church, Jenkins offers evidence through the citation of liability insurance that illustrates that there were several hundred cases of sexual abuse involving non-Catholic clergy[99].
In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”[100]Among various reports countering a fresh spate of intense media coverage on this subject in March and April this year, Newsweek noted that "The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else." Based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. "We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else," said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others." Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums.[101]
Read the entire Wiki report here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

so did the heads of other religions engage in a cover-up like the Pope did? Do other religions have the same history of cover-up and denial that the Church does? Just because this sort of thing is not a Catholic-only problem isn't the issue...the issue is how the Church is choosing to deal with it.

Yes they have. Do you think that only the RCC are the only religion that doesn't have a centralized operation?

Again, the main street media has an agenda for one religion versus all the others. It's time that the truth be known. It's not a problem limited to the RCC...but a problem that is equally bad...that has permeated throughout all religios affiliations.

Your post here in not being educated on the subject, proves the point made in the wiki article.

Devils Advocate wrote: Most victims of jokes do not find it funny.

I am a former altar boy...so maybe there is some merit here.

I always thought the issue existed with the members of the Catholic Church and their disappointment with the Vatican on how it's handled.

It is also worth noting, the over 97% of all priest known pedophillia claims, occurred between 1950 and 1980. During this time, medical science stated that pedophillia perpetrators could be cured.

The RRC sent priests out "to be cured". So did other groups of the population includine teachers and scout masters.

Many bishops did not agree with sending these "cured" priests back to environments where they would have access to little kids and wrote letters to the hierarchy explaining their concern.

The preconceived notion that the RCC is a "cult" that endorces NAMBLA borders on criminal slander and libel. But the main stream media has inflamed such incorridgably false assertions.

Con_Alma wrote: I always thought the issue existed with the members of the Catholic Church and their disappointment with the Vatican on how it's handled.

There are plenty of Catholics that are pissed about how things were handled. I am one of them. In addition, in a recent Gallop poll, more than 55% of Catholics believe that Pope Ratzinger participated in pedophile coverups.

This is why church members in European countries such as Germany and Ireland are leaving in droves.

For what it's worth, my family is now attending a Baptist Church...and will continue to do so until either the pope is absolved, or he resigns fron his position.

Is there a reason that altar servers are predominantly male?

tk421 wrote: Is there a reason that altar servers are predominantly male?

The RRC changed this in 1994. Now, pretty much altar servers are 50-50.

CenterBHSFan wrote: I don't usually say anything much about various religions/factions that I don't practice.

That being said, most of the time the things I have said about the Catholic Church have been fairly benevolent. However, i will say this: The Church needs to accept and adapt to the fact that The Enlightenment happened.
I don't think that it needs to radically change its foundations, but I think it's time that they realize that it's ok to admit to being vastly wrong on this particular problem. The world would forgive them for admitting this. After the admittance, reform would swift and just and probably easier than the Church could imagine at this point.
I just was talking to my stepfather after reading the article about this this morning. He being a devout Catholic agrees with my thoughts. Something more than the moldy, feudal, archaic and ancient denial needs to happen.... now. He also believes that the world would become more accepting over time and the Church might even seen a greater inflow of constituents.

But at the rate that the Church is going, we'll never know.

They have. Repeatedly.

Footwedge wrote:

derek bomar wrote:

Footwedge wrote:

derek bomar wrote: this whole thing has just reinforced in my mind at least that the Church is a joke...I don't know what religious affiliation if any I will take up later, but count me out as a Catholic. I'll still go to the occasional Easter/Xmas mass, but that's for respect for my family and my girlfriend's family. The Vatican can SMD, and I bet they would if I were younger.

All people of the cloth that are pedophiles (abuse prepubescent kids) and hebephiles (those that have consentual sex with post puberty teenagers) are the lowest form of scum out there. Appropriately, those that perpetrate these crimes are finding themeslves in jail where they belong as opposed to being sent to shrinks for "treatment", that the psychiatrists sold to the Vatican as a way to "cure" these people. The psychiatrists also "sold" treatment to other religious denominationss that had the same problem, They also "sold" this "treatment" option to pedophiles from all walks of life, not just the religious bastards that were perpetrating the crime.

What people need to know...this problem, including alleged coverups were also going on with both the Protestant and Jewish religions at the same per capita rate. I am not defending certain aspects of what the RCC church did at all....but I am a little amissed at the one sided bashing that the Catholics are getting from the media, when in fact this is a horrible systemic problem for a small minority of ministers from all religions

From wiki...with citations and footnotes on who conducted the research and studies...

"Criticism of media coverage
Some critics of media coverage have claimed there has been an excessive focus on incidences of abuse[97] and that equal or greater levels of child sexual abuse in secular contexts or other religious groups have been ignored or given minimal coverage.[98]
According to Jenkins (1995), the emphasis upon sexual abuse committed by the clergy is a result of a shift in media coverage beginning during the 1980s. As a result, the image of the “pedophile priest” (Jenkins, 1996) was created and endorsed by the media and special interest groups in order to further their causes. While the media has portrayed this “crisis” as being centered solely in the Catholic Church, Jenkins offers evidence through the citation of liability insurance that illustrates that there were several hundred cases of sexual abuse involving non-Catholic clergy[99].
In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”[100]Among various reports countering a fresh spate of intense media coverage on this subject in March and April this year, Newsweek noted that "The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else." Based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. "We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else," said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others." Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums.[101]
Read the entire Wiki report here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

so did the heads of other religions engage in a cover-up like the Pope did? Do other religions have the same history of cover-up and denial that the Church does? Just because this sort of thing is not a Catholic-only problem isn't the issue...the issue is how the Church is choosing to deal with it.

Yes they have. Do you think that only the RCC are the only religion that doesn't have a centralized operation?

Again, the main street media has an agenda for one religion versus all the others. It's time that the truth be known. It's not a problem limited to the RCC...but a problem that is equally bad...that has permeated throughout all religios affiliations.

Your post here in not being educated on the subject, proves the point made in the wiki article.

well educate me then...show me where a similar occurrence of a head of a major church has been directly linked to the cover-up of a pedo

again, my point isn't that it's not happening in other religions (the act, not the cover-up), it's that those in charge of the Church have now been linked to the cover-up and the Church's general stance of "nothing to see here"..."we did nothing wrong"...bs is what is pissing me off, along with millions of other Catholics. If other religions recently have had leaders be complicit in the cover-up of child molesters, shame on them, and shame on the media for not reporting it...however, I am (was?) Catholic, so this particular set of events is relevant to me and to millions of others. The Catholic Church is huge, and just like with OSU or ND getting a lot of press during college football season, you have to know that media coverage (good or bad) kind of comes with the territory. That said, you can't blame this on the media. Even if they aren't reporting on other religions (if it's happening in the same leadership roles and per capita instances), does that make the decisions made by the leaders of the RCC ok? Hell no it doesn't.

derek bomar wrote: again, my point isn't that it's not happening in other religions (the act, not the cover-up), it's that those in charge of the Church have now been linked to the cover-up and the Church's general stance of "nothing to see here"..."we did nothing wrong"...bs is what is pissing me off, along with millions of other Catholics. If other religions recently have had leaders be complicit in the cover-up of child molesters, shame on them, and shame on the media for not reporting it...however, I am (was?) Catholic, so this particular set of events is relevant to me and to millions of others. The Catholic Church is huge, and just like with OSU or ND getting a lot of press during college football season, you have to know that media coverage (good or bad) kind of comes with the territory. That said, you can't blame this on the media. Even if they aren't reporting on other religions (if it's happening in the same leadership roles and per capita instances), does that make the decisions made by the leaders of the RCC ok? Hell no it doesn't.

You are asking me to explain things that i have already explained. I'm not going to repeat what I've already stated. I offered links that back up my statements. If you choose to deny the research gathered from the links I provided, then that's your perogative.

IMO, your bias towards the RCC is simply symptomatic of the mainstream media that wants to take down the largest church in the world. That agenda has been strongly in place for centuries. Google the acronymn "WASP religion", and you will get a further understanding of this particular agenda.

derek bomar wrote: again, my point isn't that it's not happening in other religions (the act, not the cover-up), it's that those in charge of the Church have now been linked to the cover-up and the Church's general stance of "nothing to see here"..."we did nothing wrong"...bs is what is pissing me off, along with millions of other Catholics. If other religions recently have had leaders be complicit in the cover-up of child molesters, shame on them, and shame on the media for not reporting it...however, I am (was?) Catholic, so this particular set of events is relevant to me and to millions of others. The Catholic Church is huge, and just like with OSU or ND getting a lot of press during college football season, you have to know that media coverage (good or bad) kind of comes with the territory. That said, you can't blame this on the media. Even if they aren't reporting on other religions (if it's happening in the same leadership roles and per capita instances), does that make the decisions made by the leaders of the RCC ok? Hell no it doesn't.

And what I've highlighted from your post is utter bullshit. Like I told the other poster, the Catholic church has been very public in their remorse. Repeatedly. Good Gawd.

Footwedge wrote:

derek bomar wrote: again, my point isn't that it's not happening in other religions (the act, not the cover-up), it's that those in charge of the Church have now been linked to the cover-up and the Church's general stance of "nothing to see here"..."we did nothing wrong"...bs is what is pissing me off, along with millions of other Catholics. If other religions recently have had leaders be complicit in the cover-up of child molesters, shame on them, and shame on the media for not reporting it...however, I am (was?) Catholic, so this particular set of events is relevant to me and to millions of others. The Catholic Church is huge, and just like with OSU or ND getting a lot of press during college football season, you have to know that media coverage (good or bad) kind of comes with the territory. That said, you can't blame this on the media. Even if they aren't reporting on other religions (if it's happening in the same leadership roles and per capita instances), does that make the decisions made by the leaders of the RCC ok? Hell no it doesn't.

And what I've highlighted from your post is utter bullshit. Like I told the other poster, the Catholic church has been very public in their remorse. Repeatedly. Good Gawd.

no they have not. The Pope himself and Church leaders have said he's done nothing wrong. He did.

Taken straight from the first line: The Vatican insisted Saturday that Pope Benedict XVI had done nothing wrong

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/04/vatican-defends-pope-benedicts-response-to-oakland-sexual-abuse-case.html