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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:08am
Not gonna post the link...it can be found on the internet. War is brutal and ugly. With Obama in power, the savagery of war is kept relatively quiet.
For those with a strong stomach, I suggest you search it and watch it. You will see a couple of kids picked off from the air as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-exposes-video-o_n_525569.html
For those with a strong stomach, I suggest you search it and watch it. You will see a couple of kids picked off from the air as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-exposes-video-o_n_525569.html
Calling it a case of "collateral murder," the WikiLeaks Web site today released harrowing video of a U.S. Army Apache helicopter in Baghdad in 2007 repeatedly opening fire on a group of men that included a Reuters photographer and his driver -- and then on a van that stopped to rescue one of the wounded men.
None of the members of the group were taking hostile action, contrary to the Pentagon's initial cover story; they were milling about on a street corner. One man was evidently carrying a gun, though that was and is hardly an uncommon occurrence in Baghdad.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
Apr 7, 2010 11:12am
Footwedge wrote: Not gonna post the link...it can be found on the internet. War is brutal and ugly. With Obama in power, the savagery of war is kept relatively quiet.
For those with a strong stomach, I suggest you search it and watch it. You will see a couple of kids picked off from the air as well.
Footy, you bring up a very good point. The war dead were reported almost daily while Bush was in office. A daily, monthly, quartely, and annuall count were shown in almost every article about the war in Irag and Afghanistan. Today, what do we see????
Writerbuckeye
Posts: 4,745
Apr 7, 2010 11:19am
The media is protecting their pal.
LJ
Posts: 16,351
Apr 7, 2010 11:26am
This is not a "find it yourself" forum, I added a link to your first post.
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cbus4life
Posts: 2,849
Apr 7, 2010 11:28am
Would be the same for any President.
Eventually, the public becomes tired of hearing it, it is no longer a "story," etc. It isn't "news" anymore, as much of a shame that is.
Wouldn't be any different regardless of whether a liberal or conservative was in office, IMO.
It happens with every major story of suffering throughout the world. It is news when it starts, and then it just fades away, even though the suffering and killing is still going on at the same level.
I'm right there with you guys in regards to the media bias towards Obama, but i think this is one of those cases where it isn't as clear cut bias as you might like to think.
Eventually, the public becomes tired of hearing it, it is no longer a "story," etc. It isn't "news" anymore, as much of a shame that is.
Wouldn't be any different regardless of whether a liberal or conservative was in office, IMO.
It happens with every major story of suffering throughout the world. It is news when it starts, and then it just fades away, even though the suffering and killing is still going on at the same level.
I'm right there with you guys in regards to the media bias towards Obama, but i think this is one of those cases where it isn't as clear cut bias as you might like to think.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
Apr 7, 2010 11:41am
Just watched the entire video. The two journalist were in a war zone, walking with men that had AK-47's and an RPG. Ummm, sorry, but what did think might happen???
The Apache boys are only doing their job. That's kill the enemy, and try to minimize collateral damage as much as possible. A sad story, but war is hell.
The Apache boys are only doing their job. That's kill the enemy, and try to minimize collateral damage as much as possible. A sad story, but war is hell.
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Gblock
Apr 7, 2010 11:52am
those planes are two miles in the air its amazing that they can see that close up, but sucks they cant prolly discriminate between a camera and and an ak 47....i got another type of video like this from a buddy in iraq ...pm me if you have facebook and ill send it to you. i tried to get the link but it came from an email and i cant get it.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
Apr 7, 2010 12:08pm
You could clearly make out the AK-47's, as well as the cameras, but the two together are asking for trouble.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
Apr 7, 2010 12:21pm
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Apr 7, 2010 12:50pm
does anyone know or can someone explain why the reporters with dudes that had RPG's and AK's?
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cbus4life
Posts: 2,849
Apr 7, 2010 1:15pm
I don't think it is all that uncommon for on-the-ground war reporters to be around folks like that.
Mr. 300
Posts: 3,090
Apr 7, 2010 1:19pm
cbus4life wrote: I don't think it is all that uncommon for on-the-ground war reporters to be around folks like that.
Agreed. They also know they are in harms way, and understand what the results could be. Hazards of the job.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:25pm
The persistance of Reuters was the only reason that this film was released in the first place. One must turn inwards and reflect on how often these massacres on the innocent actually occurred over there.
Imagine the outrage had the roles been reversed, and American citizens, reporters and children were ambushed from the sky.
After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.
Imagine the outrage had the roles been reversed, and American citizens, reporters and children were ambushed from the sky.
After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Apr 7, 2010 1:31pm
I am sure you would have been down right ashamed after WWII.Footwedge wrote:After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:32pm
“Well, it’s their fault for bringing their kids into a battle.”
“That’s right.”
Dialogue moments after the attack.
My question is...What battle? Who were they fighting?
“That’s right.”
Dialogue moments after the attack.
My question is...What battle? Who were they fighting?
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:34pm
Did you watch the video? Are you proud of what they did?majorspark wrote:I am sure you would have been down right ashamed after WWII.Footwedge wrote:After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:37pm
That was not a battle ground. That was a more like a My Lai massacre.Mr. 300 wrote:cbus4life wrote: I don't think it is all that uncommon for on-the-ground war reporters to be around folks like that.
Agreed. They also know they are in harms way, and understand what the results could be. Hazards of the job.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Apr 7, 2010 1:39pm
IDK. I think if American journalists were "hanging out" with AK-47 and RPG armed men, who had just engaged with enemy forces, I would think they are a dumbass.Footwedge wrote: The persistance of Reuters was the only reason that this film was released in the first place. One must turn inwards and reflect on how often these massacres on the innocent actually occurred over there.
Imagine the outrage had the roles been reversed, and American citizens, reporters and children were ambushed from the sky.
After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Apr 7, 2010 1:41pm
Let's be serious. Would you have taken your kids with you to that?Footwedge wrote: “Well, it’s their fault for bringing their kids into a battle.”
“That’s right.”
Dialogue moments after the attack.
My question is...What battle? Who were they fighting?
"Hey Ma, grab the kids and load the van. Enemy forces just attacked some men down the street and we need to rescue one."
And I saw/heard nothing that led them to know kids were in the van before engaging.
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Apr 7, 2010 1:42pm
Unfortunate as it may seem, I think you a bit out of touch with reality when it comes to war, especially in the Middle East.Footwedge wrote:That was not a battle ground. That was a more like a My Lai massacre.Mr. 300 wrote:cbus4life wrote: I don't think it is all that uncommon for on-the-ground war reporters to be around folks like that.
Agreed. They also know they are in harms way, and understand what the results could be. Hazards of the job.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Apr 7, 2010 1:45pm
Yes I did. No, not in this particular instance.Footwedge wrote:Did you watch the video? Are you proud of what they did?majorspark wrote:I am sure you would have been down right ashamed after WWII.Footwedge wrote:After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.
Mistakes happen in war, sometimes we kill our own people because we mistake them for hostiles.
There was a lot more "abushing from the sky" going on against the civilian population during WWII.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:55pm
majorspark wrote:Footwedge wrote:Did you watch the video? Are you proud of what they did?majorspark wrote:I am sure you would have been down right ashamed after WWII.Footwedge wrote:After viewing this carnage, I'm a little less proud to be American.I would not describe this incident as a "mistake".
Mistakes happen in war, sometimes we kill our own people because we mistake them for hostiles.
So, because these "mistakes" happened in WWII, massacres of this nature are just collateral damage of sorts, I guess.There was a lot more "abushing from the sky" going on against the civilian population during WWII.
Numbers cited range between 150,000 dead Iraqis to over 1 million dead Iraqis....with the majority of these casuaties being civilians. Now we know how many of them died.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Apr 7, 2010 1:59pm
I didn't add the link because of the gruesome nature of the video. I've posted war pix on other web sites and got chastised for doing so. I thought discretion might be the prudent choice here.LJ wrote: This is not a "find it yourself" forum, I added a link to your first post.
2quik4u
Posts: 4,388
Apr 7, 2010 2:40pm
mistakes happen in war, innocent people die in war, that is the nature of the beast
now i'm not justifying what happened here, but you have to understand this is going to happen every once in awhile no matter what
now i'm not justifying what happened here, but you have to understand this is going to happen every once in awhile no matter what
2quik4u
Posts: 4,388
Apr 7, 2010 2:44pm
http://blog.ajmartinez.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-collateral-murder/
Between 3:13 and 3:30 it is quite clear to me, as both a former infantry sergeant and a photographer, that the two men central to the gun-camera’s frame are carrying photographic equipment. This much is noted by WikiLeaks, and misidentified by the crew of Crazyhorse 18. At 3:39, the men central to the frame are armed, the one on the far left with some AK variant, and the one in the center with an RPG. The RPG is crystal clear even in the downsized, very low-resolution, video between 3:40 and 3:45 when the man carrying it turns counter-clockwise and then back to the direction of the Apache. This all goes by without any mention whatsoever from WikiLeaks, and that is unacceptable.