Cleveland Buck wrote: If you wouldn't pick up garbage for $40,000 a year, then that means either you have other options or you are lazy as fuck. Many of those people don't have any other options, and it is ridiculous that they make that much money and turned down a 3% raise. Any idiot can pick up garbage.

Exactly. Factory work is hard labor too. LABOR! Face it, collecting garbage is not a high profile job. You think they do it because they love the work? Or because the work is mentally challenging and they go home satisfied?

No, they do it because it's what they are capable of, and, well, it pays pretty damn good!

WTF does it have to do with the gov't and CEOs? It's about union bullshit and getting people overpaid for labor jobs.

DA, you know for a fact they only work 40 hours p/wk???

Mr. 300 wrote: DA, you know for a fact they only work 40 hours p/wk???

I am friends with a Rumpke and he said their drivers work ~45-50 per week.

By the last year of the contract, they'll be making over 100,000 average per WM, and receive pension benefit of 15,000 per year.

Looks like DA is Bi assed to the unions.

Cleveland Buck wrote: If you wouldn't pick up garbage for $40,000 a year, then that means you are lazy as fuck.

this

Mr. 300 wrote: By the last year of the contract, they'll be making over 100,000 average per WM, and receive pension benefit of 15,000 per year.

Looks like DA is Bi assed to the unions.

Read it again 300. the 100m a year is a "total compensation package that includes the 15m a yr for pension.

And for those of you that have not caught this in my posts:

[size=large]I think they are IDIOTS for not signing this contract[/size]

Mr. 300 wrote: DA, you know for a fact they only work 40 hours p/wk???

Nope. Just sayin.....

Unbelievable!

The misinformation here is incredible.

Devil's advocate points out the facts, people refuse to remove head from sand, and the cycle continues.

Sometimes it is like talking to a brick wall.

The union misinformation on this site is outrageous.

"There was a time for unions but not anymore." "My dad knows this guy who worked with these union guys and he said they are lazy and overpaid, blah, blah, blah" Listen, unions cannot defend themselves anymore because they are outspent by corporate America in the BILLIONS. Propaganda is an amazing thing, just look at Hannity and Limbaugh and then come on these 'political' sites and see it all regurgitated.

Remember UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

Anyone with anything on the ball has no need to be united, they can take care of themselves.

irish_buffalo wrote:
Remember UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

how did that work out for the auto industry?

irish_buffalo wrote: Unbelievable!

The misinformation here is incredible.

Devil's advocate points out the facts, people refuse to remove head from sand, and the cycle continues.

Sometimes it is like talking to a brick wall.

The union misinformation on this site is outrageous.

"There was a time for unions but not anymore." "My dad knows this guy who worked with these union guys and he said they are lazy and overpaid, blah, blah, blah" Listen, unions cannot defend themselves anymore because they are outspent by corporate America in the BILLIONS. Propaganda is an amazing thing, just look at Hannity and Limbaugh and then come on these 'political' sites and see it all regurgitated.

Remember UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

Sorry man, but having worked in companies with unions first hand, and having a father who is in a labor union (mom is too actually), I can't disagree more with what you said.

Today's labor unions get a bad rap for good reason.

My dad is in a union, and he laughs at the crap his union tries to pull at every contract negotiation because they are being retarded.

I've worked in places as a slararied employee that had union workers and it was no different than the "rap" you hear about.

Devils Advocate wrote:

CenterBHSFan wrote: Sure, if you want to be a sole provider of a family, live in a gated community, and buy a new car every 2 years, that amount of money will not be enough.

Awww... C'mon you cant do that anywhere in the US on 50 grand a year.

Detroit

derek bomar wrote:

Devils Advocate wrote:

CenterBHSFan wrote: Sure, if you want to be a sole provider of a family, live in a gated community, and buy a new car every 2 years, that amount of money will not be enough.

Awww... C'mon you cant do that anywhere in the US on 50 grand a year.

Detroit

youngstown

You all have no clue for two reasons.

1). I am a member of a TRADE UNION. In our union if you dont work, or work hard enough, you STARVE. There is no protection job wise. Our union is there solely for the basis of collective bargaining (wage, health care, retirement).

2). If you think for one second that without unions you would somehow get a fair shake you are out of your mind. It will simply be a race to the bottom.

Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

I've owned my own business and have my college degree and now am a Union Ironworker and we get paid a very fair wage for a honest days work. Just think of our society, with all of the money that we have, and a middle class that cannot afford health care, education for their children, or retirement. All three of which are pillars in gauging strength of your society. If you firmly have been DUPED into believing that 'there is no need for unions in todays world' then sit back and see what happens. When the vast majority reaches the tipping point of not being able to attain those three things I have mentioned you will only be left with one choice - revolution.

Keep in mind, in our society, no company will look out for their workers overall well being. The only thing they look after is their bottom line, and through competition that will lead to that race to the bottom. People who preach about their dad being a 'union' guy or whose mom works with 'unions' take for granted that they wouldnt have the wage, retirement, or education due to the very union that they badmouth.

Since roughly 2003 our country has not seen such an imbalance between the rich and poor/mid class than the 1920s and we all know what happened then. As much as I hate to say it we almost NEED another depression to awaken the labor class of our society (white and blue collar together) that OUR needs are not being met whatsoever.

Is it news to you guys that garbage men are paid well? It makes sense too, the job stinks (har har).

But yeah, fuck the unions. I'm serious about that too. The should accept the shit out of this contract with a smile on their faces.

irish_buffalo wrote: Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

if they pay doesnt fit the work, no one will want to work there and the company will A.)be forced to pay more for quality workers or B.) fail.

irish_buffalo wrote: You all have no clue for two reasons.

1). I am a member of a TRADE UNION. In our union if you dont work, or work hard enough, you STARVE. There is no protection job wise. Our union is there solely for the basis of collective bargaining (wage, health care, retirement).

2). If you think for one second that without unions you would somehow get a fair shake you are out of your mind. It will simply be a race to the bottom.

Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

I've owned my own business and have my college degree and now am a Union Ironworker and we get paid a very fair wage for a honest days work. Just think of our society, with all of the money that we have, and a middle class that cannot afford health care, education for their children, or retirement. All three of which are pillars in gauging strength of your society. If you firmly have been DUPED into believing that 'there is no need for unions in todays world' then sit back and see what happens. When the vast majority reaches the tipping point of not being able to attain those three things I have mentioned you will only be left with one choice - revolution.

Keep in mind, in our society, no company will look out for their workers overall well being. The only thing they look after is their bottom line, and through competition that will lead to that race to the bottom. People who preach about their dad being a 'union' guy or whose mom works with 'unions' take for granted that they wouldnt have the wage, retirement, or education due to the very union that they badmouth.

Since roughly 2003 our country has not seen such an imbalance between the rich and poor/mid class than the 1920s and we all know what happened then. As much as I hate to say it we almost NEED another depression to awaken the labor class of our society (white and blue collar together) that OUR needs are not being met whatsoever.

Except for the smart companies and corporations. Look at the benefits and services companies like Microsoft, Google, and Adobe provide. They do this because they realize that healthy, happy employees make them more money.

There is a reason that the 100 best companies to work for list from Forbes is filled with successes even in recessions and market downturns.

Glory Days wrote:

irish_buffalo wrote: Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

if they pay doesnt fit the work, no one will want to work there and the company will A.)be forced to pay more for quality workers or B.) fail.

That worked well in the past...

I Wear Pants wrote:

Glory Days wrote:

irish_buffalo wrote: Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

if they pay doesnt fit the work, no one will want to work there and the company will A.)be forced to pay more for quality workers or B.) fail.

That worked well in the past...

yeah now there are minimum wage laws, child labor laws, 40 hour work weeks, and other things that are in place besides unions that make the work place better.

irish_buffalo wrote: You all have no clue for two reasons.

1). I am a member of a TRADE UNION. In our union if you dont work, or work hard enough, you STARVE. There is no protection job wise. Our union is there solely for the basis of collective bargaining (wage, health care, retirement).

2). If you think for one second that without unions you would somehow get a fair shake you are out of your mind. It will simply be a race to the bottom.

Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

Please be so kind as to site some sort of source to back up any of this nonsense.

Just today outside Lansing MI the UAW is ratifying $12.00 start pay. Look it up.

I wear pants - you are going to use Microsoft, Adobe, and Google? Then you throw out the old 'worked well in the past'? Great input.

Glory Days - no kidding and those laws are in place because of UNIONS. Lose Union strength and it wouldnt be long before those laws are loosened and broken, to think otherwise is foolish.

This is kind of a double edged sword.

I think that irish buffalo makes a good point about the need for unions because the laws we have in place are there because of their efforts so long ago. I think the unions are truly there for the workers.

However, they are getting out of hand with demands and what not.

I don't think you need a union to get a good wage. My mom works for an auto company that doesn't have a union and makes more than a Ford worker WAS making, who had a skilled trade.

The premise for Unions is/was good, but now they need to back off a little bit and remember why they were created in the first place. Which, was to protect the workers from unfair labor treatment as opposed to scare employers into doing whatever they say.

irish_buffalo wrote: You all have no clue for two reasons.

1). I am a member of a TRADE UNION. In our union if you dont work, or work hard enough, you STARVE. There is no protection job wise. Our union is there solely for the basis of collective bargaining (wage, health care, retirement).

2). If you think for one second that without unions you would somehow get a fair shake you are out of your mind. It will simply be a race to the bottom.

Times like these equal the balance. Take the UAW for example. I've seen first hand the excessive contracts of the UAW and etc... However, you HAVE to think about the fact that today new hires at UAW auto plants make $14.00 wereas they USED to make $24.00 starting out. Keep in mind that the non-union's pay scale is based off of UNION pay scale. So, if Chrysler USED to pay new hires $24.00 an hr. and Toyota paid $18.00 and NOW Chrysler pays $14.00 then it wont be long before Toyota pays $9.00 and so on and so forth. RACE TO THE BOTTOM. Our economic system is based on this.

I've owned my own business and have my college degree and now am a Union Ironworker and we get paid a very fair wage for a honest days work. Just think of our society, with all of the money that we have, and a middle class that cannot afford health care, education for their children, or retirement. All three of which are pillars in gauging strength of your society. If you firmly have been DUPED into believing that 'there is no need for unions in todays world' then sit back and see what happens. When the vast majority reaches the tipping point of not being able to attain those three things I have mentioned you will only be left with one choice - revolution.

Keep in mind, in our society, no company will look out for their workers overall well being. The only thing they look after is their bottom line, and through competition that will lead to that race to the bottom. People who preach about their dad being a 'union' guy or whose mom works with 'unions' take for granted that they wouldnt have the wage, retirement, or education due to the very union that they badmouth.

Since roughly 2003 our country has not seen such an imbalance between the rich and poor/mid class than the 1920s and we all know what happened then. As much as I hate to say it we almost NEED another depression to awaken the labor class of our society (white and blue collar together) that OUR needs are not being met whatsoever.

IB, you again have no clue, you are obviously a quite biased individual.

I have worked in both union and non-union facilities, both of my parents are in unions.

I can tell you that the non-union facilities I worked at had much harder workers, the workers liked their job much better, the pay was comparable to non-union shops, and they WORKED HARDER because they knew that their yearly raise was proportional to how well they did their job, NOT by some set percent set by a union contract.

Those that worked hard did better than those in unions, those that did not did worse than those in unions and/or were eventually looking for employment elsewhere.

I'm sorry but yes, with no unions people get a "fair shake" all the time.

I used to live in Marysville, OH and knew many people who worked in the Honda plant there. Its non-union (drove the UAW nuts) and every person I knew that worked there LOVED working at the place, never heard a complaint.

I worked in a manufacturing place that was non-union for years, and overall the people were well taken care of and loved their jobs.

I worked in a union chemical plant for a few years and on average the union employees hated their job.

I would like to add, that in the past unions were definitely needed and definitely were a huge help.

However, they have got to the point now where they are somewhat irrelevant and are demanding too much to SEEM relevant or make themselves relevant.

I don't think all unions are bad.

I think ALOT of unions hurt their people just as much as they can help them.

I stand by my posts in that the union on topic is doing NO favors for their employees. The employees are either schmucks or just plain stupid.