Browns got homered. That was a bullshit call at the end (Stafford coming back in, after an injury timeout for him and Detroit having zero timeouts left). The PI call was ticky-tack at best.

krazie45 wrote: I disagree, the PI call was not correct. The ball was nowhere near the "interfered" receiver and was intercepted a good 8 yards in front of him. Plus you could call that on every last second lob ever, because everyone always goes up fighting for the ball. It was a bad call at that stage of the game.

If the DB's would have went up and fought for the ball, then pass interference probably wouldn't have been called. Instead, they decided to go up and tackle the reciever while face guarding him before the ball got there. I've been a Browns fan my entire 21 years of existence, but that was the right call.

That was a great call by the refs and I thought it was great they had the nads to make it at that point in the game.

Having the 1st pick is a curse

Can't sign player
Finally signs the last week of camp or later

Takes most of payroll

Turns out to be a bust in 3 years

Meanwhile both oline & dline aren't worth a crap and that is what wins championships

We will have this same discusion in 5 yrs

lhslep134 wrote:

bo shemmy3337 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote: Browns lose assuring a higher draft pick.


Brady Quinn plays much better than DA could ever play.


Seems like a win-win to me. We can no longer worry about drafting McCoy or another overrated quarterback (we don't need more than one). Now we can draft a defensive player.

I've already given up hope for this season, and this is the best thing that could have happened in my opinion.

So you are sold on Quinn because he had a good day against the Lions?

If you read my post, I also go on to say that BQ is overrated as well.

That being said, of course you can't just be sold after 1 game.

But, I am sold on the fact that the Browns can now, as a team, rally around Quinn and hopefully drive DA out of town.

Skyhook: Yes I watched DA in 2007. And if you watched him too, you'd also realize he led the league in interception/sack ratio and was last in the league in not only completion percentage but also completion percentage on <15 yard routes.

So yes, I watched DA, and yes he's worse than Brady.

Any other questions skyhook? You going to question my football IQ? Because yours is extremely shoddy if you think DA had anything more than a decent year in 2007. 29 TDs is nice, but not last in the league in completion % and INT/sack ratio.

I don't know where you got your stats from but DA was NOT last in Comp% in 2007 and he was sacked a TOTAL of 14 times (one of the fewest in the league) in 2007 and he was a PRO Bowler albeit an alternate he was still a PRO Bowler. When your BOY Brady does that for a whole season get back to me, not after a Lions game. So YES I am questioning your football IQ TOUGHGUY!!!!!! and you better check your Stats again!!!!!!!!

GoJPM! wrote: Browns got homered. That was a bullshit call at the end (Stafford coming back in, after an injury timeout for him and Detroit having zero timeouts left). The PI call was ticky-tack at best.

There was no injury timeout called for Stafford. He got up and went to the sideline. The Browns then called timeout before the final play which allowed Stafford to come back in. Nothing wrong with any of that so Detroit having no timeouts made no difference.

KnightXC1 wrote:

GoJPM! wrote: Browns got homered. That was a bullshit call at the end (Stafford coming back in, after an injury timeout for him and Detroit having zero timeouts left). The PI call was ticky-tack at best.

There was no injury timeout called for Stafford. He got up and went to the sideline. The Browns then called timeout before the final play which allowed Stafford to come back in. Nothing wrong with any of that so Detroit having no timeouts made no difference.

My sources tell me (I had a buddy there big browns fan) that Mangini called time out wanting to have the booth challenge the PI...
not sure if its true or not but if so ..whay a dumb move...imo

No damage done. Browns didn't lose any ground this week in the division race.

A pass interference call cannot be challenged. If Mangini called time-out for that, he's a bigger fool that I thought he was...if that's possible.

Skyhook79 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

bo shemmy3337 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote: Browns lose assuring a higher draft pick.


Brady Quinn plays much better than DA could ever play.


Seems like a win-win to me. We can no longer worry about drafting McCoy or another overrated quarterback (we don't need more than one). Now we can draft a defensive player.

I've already given up hope for this season, and this is the best thing that could have happened in my opinion.

So you are sold on Quinn because he had a good day against the Lions?

If you read my post, I also go on to say that BQ is overrated as well.

That being said, of course you can't just be sold after 1 game.

But, I am sold on the fact that the Browns can now, as a team, rally around Quinn and hopefully drive DA out of town.

Skyhook: Yes I watched DA in 2007. And if you watched him too, you'd also realize he led the league in interception/sack ratio and was last in the league in not only completion percentage but also completion percentage on <15 yard routes.

So yes, I watched DA, and yes he's worse than Brady.

Any other questions skyhook? You going to question my football IQ? Because yours is extremely shoddy if you think DA had anything more than a decent year in 2007. 29 TDs is nice, but not last in the league in completion % and INT/sack ratio.

I don't know where you got your stats from but DA was NOT last in Comp% in 2007 and he was sacked a TOTAL of 14 times (one of the fewest in the league) in 2007 and he was a PRO Bowler albeit an alternate he was still a PRO Bowler. When your BOY Brady does that for a whole season get back to me, not after a Lions game. So YES I am questioning your football IQ TOUGHGUY!!!!!! and you better check your Stats again!!!!!!!!

Uhm yeah. Excuse me he was 28th. Check that. 19 Ints/14 Sacks. That's AWFUL. What does that say? It says he had plenty of time to throw and still made a ton of bad passes to the tune of 2nd worst in the NFL.

DA SUCKS. I'm not saying Brady Quinn is good. I'm saying he's not as bad as Derek Anderson. Give him as many starts as DA, and his numbers will be better. I guarantee it.

Lost in all of this, whether it was Detroit or not, we saw some life from the offense... Why? Because the playcalling was opened up. I saw some pretty nice play calls made by the Browns and I thought Quinn had a pretty good game.

If Quinn can prove to be a solid QB, we can focus our attention on other areas of need (which we have a lot of) instead of QB.

Dan Patrick on the show running during the Bears-Eagles game said that Mangina called a TO

Cleveland called a timeout; heck, even the commentators mentioned this when it was called.

Pass interference was absolutely the right call. A DB with his back to the play wrapped up a receiver and drove him a good five yards (including out of the end zone). And TWO officials flagged that one, not just one who was looking for something to throw yellow for.

Mangini called the time out AFTER the official injury timeout... The refs gave Detroit the ball with 1 second left on the goal line and the clock was already stopped.

Mangini then took a timeout to try and get his defense organized.

Either way, it doesn't matter.

So is there a specific rule to cover an untimed extra play at the same time there is an injury time-out for for the offensive team that has no time-outs left?

First of all, the notion from Browns fans that the pass interference call was bogus is hilarious. It was clear as day.

But what I really want to talk about is the play of Quinn. I've been hard on him, but he played well today so I'll give him credit where it's due. BUT, what I can't stand already is Browns fans (my friends mostly) throwing his day in my face after they lost the game. LOL, I don't put too much into him having a big day against the Lions. It's certainly a step, and he looked WAY more comfortable on the field. But it's the Lions. He's got to be able to make those throws against the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals. Until he does that I still won't be impressed but if he does I'll take my plate of crow. Props to the recievers for catching the ball today as well. But this game also proves the other point that myself and others have been making--while a large faction of Browns fans want a QB change all the time or a new head coach they don't realize that it goes beyond that. The defense is pathetic, which was evident today. Like a lot of us have been saying, it doesn't matter who is under center--they could even play well like today and they still lose to a BADDDDDDD team because the whole team is terrible. No one wants to be the doormat but if you want to get out of that situation the first thing you have to do is realize that you're there. No more excuses, just realize that you're the laughing stock of the league and figure out how to get better. I think a lot of the fans are starting to finally realize that, hopefully the organization does and starts making strides in the other direction. Although, I've been pretty convinced for awhile that the owner of the franchise doesn't care about winning--it's the reason I gave up on the Browns years ago (although I still quietly pull for them every week). I honestly believe that he's content with sucking money out of an incredibly loyal fan base and making a little move here and there to keep the fans believing. I don't really believe he cares all that much about doing what it takes to make them a winner--because he's still banking either way. Merchandise and ticket sales are still bringing home the bacon, why put the extra work in to make your team a winner when you have a fan base like the Browns?

lhslep134 wrote:

Skyhook79 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

bo shemmy3337 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote: Browns lose assuring a higher draft pick.


Brady Quinn plays much better than DA could ever play.


Seems like a win-win to me. We can no longer worry about drafting McCoy or another overrated quarterback (we don't need more than one). Now we can draft a defensive player.

I've already given up hope for this season, and this is the best thing that could have happened in my opinion.

So you are sold on Quinn because he had a good day against the Lions?

If you read my post, I also go on to say that BQ is overrated as well.

That being said, of course you can't just be sold after 1 game.

But, I am sold on the fact that the Browns can now, as a team, rally around Quinn and hopefully drive DA out of town.

Skyhook: Yes I watched DA in 2007. And if you watched him too, you'd also realize he led the league in interception/sack ratio and was last in the league in not only completion percentage but also completion percentage on <15 yard routes.

So yes, I watched DA, and yes he's worse than Brady.

Any other questions skyhook? You going to question my football IQ? Because yours is extremely shoddy if you think DA had anything more than a decent year in 2007. 29 TDs is nice, but not last in the league in completion % and INT/sack ratio.

I don't know where you got your stats from but DA was NOT last in Comp% in 2007 and he was sacked a TOTAL of 14 times (one of the fewest in the league) in 2007 and he was a PRO Bowler albeit an alternate he was still a PRO Bowler. When your BOY Brady does that for a whole season get back to me, not after a Lions game. So YES I am questioning your football IQ TOUGHGUY!!!!!! and you better check your Stats again!!!!!!!!

Uhm yeah. Excuse me he was 28th. Check that. 19 Ints/14 Sacks. That's AWFUL. What does that say? It says he had plenty of time to throw and still made a ton of bad passes to the tune of 2nd worst in the NFL.

DA SUCKS. I'm not saying Brady Quinn is good. I'm saying he's not as bad as Derek Anderson. Give him as many starts as DA, and his numbers will be better. I guarantee it.

Agreed. DA is an abomination and to think Savage gave him all those millions for his 18th qb ranking in 07.

Also...those that cried about Quinn's inability to throw deep are eating crow tonight.

mhs95_06 wrote: So is there a specific rule to cover an untimed extra play at the same time there is an injury time-out for for the offensive team that has no time-outs left?

I doubt that there's a specific rule stating that. But an accepted penalty on the defense can not end a half nor end a game. That rule is clear.

SQ_Crazies wrote: First of all, the notion from Browns fans that the pass interference call was bogus is hilarious. It was clear as day.

But what I really want to talk about is the play of Quinn. I've been hard on him, but he played well today so I'll give him credit where it's due. BUT, what I can't stand already is Browns fans (my friends mostly) throwing his day in my face after they lost the game. LOL, I don't put too much into him having a big day against the Lions. It's certainly a step, and he looked WAY more comfortable on the field. But it's the Lions. He's got to be able to make those throws against the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals. Until he does that I still won't be impressed but if he does I'll take my plate of crow. Props to the recievers for catching the ball today as well. But this game also proves the other point that myself and others have been making--while a large faction of Browns fans want a QB change all the time or a new head coach they don't realize that it goes beyond that. The defense is pathetic, which was evident today. Like a lot of us have been saying, it doesn't matter who is under center--they could even play well like today and they still lose to a BADDDDDDD team because the whole team is terrible. No one wants to be the doormat but if you want to get out of that situation the first thing you have to do is realize that you're there. No more excuses, just realize that you're the laughing stock of the league and figure out how to get better. I think a lot of the fans are starting to finally realize that, hopefully the organization does and starts making strides in the other direction. Although, I've been pretty convinced for awhile that the owner of the franchise doesn't care about winning--it's the reason I gave up on the Browns years ago (although I still quietly pull for them every week). I honestly believe that he's content with sucking money out of an incredibly loyal fan base and making a little move here and there to keep the fans believing. I don't really believe he cares all that much about doing what it takes to make them a winner--because he's still banking either way. Merchandise and ticket sales are still bringing home the bacon, why put the extra work in to make your team a winner when you have a fan base like the Browns?

Just a couple of counterpoints...

A. A couple balls were in fact dropped...most notably...a touchdown pass to Jennings.

B. Thw owners care about winning asdoes management...if they win...they make more money. To infer that they don't care is ludicrous. Their problem has been the combination of bad talent evaluations and hiring poor coaches.

C. Like I told you on another thread....I don't know one Brown fan that thinks the quarberback position is all that's lacking.

D. Horrible defense? Today they were horrible...but they are not horrible if one looks at the season in total.

Footwedge wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

Skyhook79 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

bo shemmy3337 wrote:

lhslep134 wrote: Browns lose assuring a higher draft pick.


Brady Quinn plays much better than DA could ever play.


Seems like a win-win to me. We can no longer worry about drafting McCoy or another overrated quarterback (we don't need more than one). Now we can draft a defensive player.

I've already given up hope for this season, and this is the best thing that could have happened in my opinion.

So you are sold on Quinn because he had a good day against the Lions?

If you read my post, I also go on to say that BQ is overrated as well.

That being said, of course you can't just be sold after 1 game.

But, I am sold on the fact that the Browns can now, as a team, rally around Quinn and hopefully drive DA out of town.

Skyhook: Yes I watched DA in 2007. And if you watched him too, you'd also realize he led the league in interception/sack ratio and was last in the league in not only completion percentage but also completion percentage on <15 yard routes.

So yes, I watched DA, and yes he's worse than Brady.

Any other questions skyhook? You going to question my football IQ? Because yours is extremely shoddy if you think DA had anything more than a decent year in 2007. 29 TDs is nice, but not last in the league in completion % and INT/sack ratio.

I don't know where you got your stats from but DA was NOT last in Comp% in 2007 and he was sacked a TOTAL of 14 times (one of the fewest in the league) in 2007 and he was a PRO Bowler albeit an alternate he was still a PRO Bowler. When your BOY Brady does that for a whole season get back to me, not after a Lions game. So YES I am questioning your football IQ TOUGHGUY!!!!!! and you better check your Stats again!!!!!!!!

Uhm yeah. Excuse me he was 28th. Check that. 19 Ints/14 Sacks. That's AWFUL. What does that say? It says he had plenty of time to throw and still made a ton of bad passes to the tune of 2nd worst in the NFL.

DA SUCKS. I'm not saying Brady Quinn is good. I'm saying he's not as bad as Derek Anderson. Give him as many starts as DA, and his numbers will be better. I guarantee it.

Agreed. DA is an abomination and to think Savage gave him all those millions for his 18th qb ranking in 07.

Also...those that cried about Quinn's inability to throw deep are eating crow tonight.

No they aren't, they shouldn't be anyways. They played the Lions, he didn't prove anything. Everyone knows he can throw down the field, hell I can throw a ball 50 yards, I could throw it down the field. But doing it against the Lions proves nothing. Now if he does it against the Bengals I'll give him his due, but I wouldn't put too much stock into a game against the Lions.

Footwedge wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: First of all, the notion from Browns fans that the pass interference call was bogus is hilarious. It was clear as day.

But what I really want to talk about is the play of Quinn. I've been hard on him, but he played well today so I'll give him credit where it's due. BUT, what I can't stand already is Browns fans (my friends mostly) throwing his day in my face after they lost the game. LOL, I don't put too much into him having a big day against the Lions. It's certainly a step, and he looked WAY more comfortable on the field. But it's the Lions. He's got to be able to make those throws against the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals. Until he does that I still won't be impressed but if he does I'll take my plate of crow. Props to the recievers for catching the ball today as well. But this game also proves the other point that myself and others have been making--while a large faction of Browns fans want a QB change all the time or a new head coach they don't realize that it goes beyond that. The defense is pathetic, which was evident today. Like a lot of us have been saying, it doesn't matter who is under center--they could even play well like today and they still lose to a BADDDDDDD team because the whole team is terrible. No one wants to be the doormat but if you want to get out of that situation the first thing you have to do is realize that you're there. No more excuses, just realize that you're the laughing stock of the league and figure out how to get better. I think a lot of the fans are starting to finally realize that, hopefully the organization does and starts making strides in the other direction. Although, I've been pretty convinced for awhile that the owner of the franchise doesn't care about winning--it's the reason I gave up on the Browns years ago (although I still quietly pull for them every week). I honestly believe that he's content with sucking money out of an incredibly loyal fan base and making a little move here and there to keep the fans believing. I don't really believe he cares all that much about doing what it takes to make them a winner--because he's still banking either way. Merchandise and ticket sales are still bringing home the bacon, why put the extra work in to make your team a winner when you have a fan base like the Browns?

Just a couple of counterpoints...

A. A couple balls were in fact dropped...most notably...a touchdown pass to Jennings.

B. Thw owners care about winning asdoes management...if they win...they make more money. To infer that they don't care is ludicrous. Their problem has been the combination of bad talent evaluations and hiring poor coaches.

C. Like I told you on another thread....I don't know one Brown fan that thinks the quarberback position is all that's lacking.

D. Horrible defense? Today they were horrible...but they are not horrible if one looks at the season in total.

A. Yes, but not like usual when you "look at the season in total".

B. It isn't ludicrous. Sure they'd make more money, they'd work harder too and they're still raking it in.

C. Like I told you on another thread, it's not that they think that's all that is lacking--but they think of the Browns had Peyton Manning right now they'd be undefeated like the Colts. I know a lot of Browns fans like that.

D. The season in total doesn't mean JACK for today. They played terrible defense today and it cost them the game. So the point remains, the QB can play well and they'll still shit a brick somewhere else and find a way to lose.

NNN wrote: Cleveland called a timeout; heck, even the commentators mentioned this when it was called.

Pass interference was absolutely the right call. A DB with his back to the play wrapped up a receiver and drove him a good five yards (including out of the end zone). And TWO officials flagged that one, not just one who was looking for something to throw yellow for.

Exactly. Hank Poteat has been playing football for a long, long time. The shit he pulled on the last play is unforgiveable.

D backs are taught at every level of football to turn when the receiver eyes the ball. not push him out of bounds.

As a Pitt Panther alumnae, I am embarassed for my school for graduating this clown to the NFL. He has played like shit all year.

Poteat screwed himself by not turning around and looking for the ball. You'll get called every time if you're faceguarding and then put a hand on a guy.

And the receiver was 5 yards behind the pass because he was being faceguarded before the ball got there, so he was a potential receiver.

I'm as big of a Browns fan as anyone, but it wasn't a bad call. Poteat is just a dumbass.

For all you guys that keep saying "It was Detroit" whenever someone brings up how well Quinn played.....it's not like Detroit gives up 37 points every game. In fact-only New Orleans has scored more than that. It's not like Quinn did this against an absolutely terrible defense.

fortfan wrote: For all you guys that keep saying "It was Detroit" whenever someone brings up how well Quinn played.....it's not like Detroit gives up 37 points every game. In fact-only New Orleans has scored more than that. It's not like Quinn did this against an absolutely terrible defense.

According to the stats on NFL.com, Detroit ranks dead last through 10 games in passing defense.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1