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Weighing in healthy kids, but forfeiting?

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Weighing in healthy kids, but forfeiting?
S

Shoot and Sprawl

Senior Member

319 posts
Jan 28, 2010 9:25 PM
Can anyone explain why a coach would weigh in a kid, and then forfeit a match at that weight?

I have seen this 3 times this week, at 3 different weights, by two different coaching staffs.

The kids are not injured. They all wrestled later that evening.

In an age of limited scheduling points & paying hard earned money to get into events to watch WRESTLING, I find it very distasteful, even disgraceful.
Jan 28, 2010 9:25pm
N

NY-Bred

Junior Member

4 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:08 PM
Why would you care if it is not your kid??????? maybe you should be a coach???
Shoot and Sprawl wrote: Can anyone explain why a coach would weigh in a kid, and then forfeit a match at that weight?

I have seen this 3 times this week, at 3 different weights, by two different coaching staffs.

The kids are not injured. They all wrestled later that evening.

In an age of limited scheduling points & paying hard earned money to get into events to watch WRESTLING, I find it very distasteful, even disgraceful.
Jan 28, 2010 10:08pm
E

E4media2

Junior Member

7 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:15 PM
NY-Bred wrote: Why would you care if it is not your kid??????? maybe you should be a coach???
Shoot and Sprawl wrote: Can anyone explain why a coach would weigh in a kid, and then forfeit a match at that weight?

I have seen this 3 times this week, at 3 different weights, by two different coaching staffs.

The kids are not injured. They all wrestled later that evening.

In an age of limited scheduling points & paying hard earned money to get into events to watch WRESTLING, I find it very distasteful, even disgraceful.
Usually the kids are sub-par and if its a dual and its close theyll wrestle them not to give up 6 points against their team
Jan 28, 2010 10:15pm
S

Shoot and Sprawl

Senior Member

319 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:16 PM
NY-Bred.
Really? that's your first post?
Cause I paid to watch wrestling, not forfeits.
Cause kids work hard to get on the mat. They deserve to get a match, when there is a healthybody to give them one.
Cause in 1 of the 3 cases it was my kid.
(And I have coached.)

E4media2
I don't bye the subpar argument. It is 6 points whether your forfeit or get pinned. Kids get better by wrestling matches, not by forfeiting.
Jan 28, 2010 10:16pm
zambrown's avatar

zambrown

Senior Member

1,093 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:20 PM
Perhaps they were weighing in to make scratch weight and then wrestling later that day(night) at their higher weight? Just a thought. It's frustrating when your kid gets a forfeit, but that's one scenario I can think of.
Jan 28, 2010 10:20pm
T

tcby99

Senior Member

328 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:21 PM
zambrown wrote: Perhaps they were weighing in to make scratch weight and then wrestling later that day(night) at their higher weight? Just a thought. It's frustrating when your kid gets a forfeit, but that's one scenario I can think of.
yes
Jan 28, 2010 10:21pm
S

Shoot and Sprawl

Senior Member

319 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:23 PM
zambrown wrote: Perhaps they were weighing in to make scratch weight and then wrestling later that day(night) at their higher weight? Just a thought. It's frustrating when your kid gets a forfeit, but that's one scenario I can think of.
Perhaps, but wasn't the case in the 3 incidents this week.
Jan 28, 2010 10:23pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:47 PM
I've seen a coach hold a kid out if the disparity in skill/maturity levels is so great that he fears a possible injury.....
Jan 28, 2010 10:47pm
M

Mat Shark

Member

56 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:48 PM
in a dual format, i have heard the argument that putting a subpar wrestler on the mat can change the momentum of the match when he gets pinned, but i think telling any kid that he isn't even good enough to take the mat against another kid is something that would change the teams outlook and momentum of the match as well.
Jan 28, 2010 10:48pm
S

Sprawl and Shoot

Banned

5 posts
Jan 28, 2010 10:53 PM
well shoot and sprawl....when you are the coach, you get to make that decision! thanks
Jan 28, 2010 10:53pm
S

Shoot and Sprawl

Senior Member

319 posts
Jan 28, 2010 11:11 PM
Sprawl and Shoot wrote: well shoot and sprawl....when you are the coach, you get to make that decision! thanks
Hey Genius,
the question isn't WHO gets to make the decision,
IT'S WHY WOULD IT BE MADE?

Since posting this topic, I've learned it also happened twice at a different tri tonight.
Jan 28, 2010 11:11pm
S

Shoot and Sprawl

Senior Member

319 posts
Jan 28, 2010 11:14 PM
zambrown wrote:
Mat Shark wrote: in a dual format, i have heard the argument that putting a subpar wrestler on the mat can change the momentum of the match when he gets pinned, but i think telling any kid that he isn't even good enough to take the mat against another kid is something that would change the teams outlook and momentum of the match as well.

Yeah, I've got to think that the entire team would be aware of what was going on and that it would really take the air out of them anyway.
Jan 28, 2010 11:14pm
M

Mat Shark

Member

56 posts
Jan 28, 2010 11:18 PM
thanks zam.

what teams are doing this?
maybe their coaches would be willing to explain?
Jan 28, 2010 11:18pm
H

Hangem08

Member

35 posts
Jan 28, 2010 11:20 PM
Well on the team I follow, they have one kid who they only take to duals just so they have a chance of not giving up 6. The kid hasn't made it out the first period. B.ut he continues to get better each match. Point is that who cares if it is giving up 6? Let the kid show his progress he's made
Jan 28, 2010 11:20pm
S

Sprawl and Shoot

Banned

5 posts
Jan 29, 2010 12:00 AM
so let's get this straight, because you paid money to get in, a coach should automatically put a kid in, just so you can watch? sounds like good reasoning to me. sign me up!!
Jan 29, 2010 12:00am
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Jan 29, 2010 12:23 AM
The question is which team had to put out their wrestler first. Whether it is stupid or not depends upon that.
Jan 29, 2010 12:23am
hasbeen's avatar

hasbeen

Excuse me, Flo?

6,504 posts
Jan 29, 2010 12:56 AM
Were the 3 kids who got forfeits studs? That could be the case. Maybe these young healthy kids just didn't match up well and they or the coach didn't feel it necessary to let them get embarrassed?
Jan 29, 2010 12:56am
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

Senior Member

5,642 posts
Jan 29, 2010 2:36 AM
Duals are sometimes 'chess matches' the forfeits are due to coaches strategy.
Jan 29, 2010 2:36am
J

Joe Daugherty

Senior Member

243 posts
Jan 29, 2010 7:11 AM
Chess matches + number of accumulated points + level of competition = Coaches decision = My guess.
Jan 29, 2010 7:11am
M

Mat Shark

Member

56 posts
Jan 29, 2010 7:36 AM
in my opinion, it's not much of a strategy. it gives up 6 points either way and it sends the wrong message to your team and embarresses the individual kid anyway.

it doesn't say much for the coach's ability to teach the sport either. i mean he's had the kid since at least november, and couldn't teach him enough to even let him take the mat.
Jan 29, 2010 7:36am
M

Mat Shark

Member

56 posts
Jan 29, 2010 7:37 AM
Hangem08 wrote: Well on the team I follow, they have one kid who they only take to duals just so they have a chance of not giving up 6. The kid hasn't made it out the first period. B.ut he continues to get better each match. Point is that who cares if it is giving up 6? Let the kid show his progress he's made
i completely agree. there is honor in just competing.
Jan 29, 2010 7:37am
N

NY-Bred

Junior Member

4 posts
Jan 29, 2010 8:05 AM
shoot & sprawl -- do you do anything BUT complain on every board???
Jan 29, 2010 8:05am
P

ptrsn

Senior Member

356 posts
Jan 29, 2010 8:11 AM
I do know of one scenario where this would be the smart move. Here it is:

If you are in a match where you are pretty certain that every match is going to end in a 6 point win for one of the teams and you think you are going to win 7 of those matches and the other team is going to win 7, then the final score would be 42-42. Tie breaker criteria F which a match like this would most likely be decided by is MOST FIRST POINTS SCORED. If you don't send a kid out he cannot give up the first points so this is to your advantage. I have seen this happen 2 times.
Jan 29, 2010 8:11am
J

Joe Daugherty

Senior Member

243 posts
Jan 29, 2010 8:25 AM
Joe Daugherty wrote: Chess matches + number of accumulated points + level of competition = Coaches decision = My guess.
Mat Shark wrote: in my opinion, it's not much of a strategy. it gives up 6 points either way and it sends the wrong message to your team and embarresses the individual kid anyway.

it doesn't say much for the coach's ability to teach the sport either. i mean he's had the kid since at least november, and couldn't teach him enough to even let him take the mat.
I was unclear. By points accumulated , I meant the # of points that boy has ie 19 for the season. The question I have is , If a coach weighs a boy in but does not wrestle him , does that count towards his overall season points?
Jan 29, 2010 8:25am
K

KevinPetrella

Junior Member

10 posts
Jan 29, 2010 8:33 AM
At a school where I am, 95% of our wrestlers are 1st year wrestlers. They will QUIT after their first year of losing 10-20+ times. What good is a kid to me if he quits and especially if it's someone who could be an average or even outstanding as a senior? We weigh kids in to take forfeits. You can't honestly say that any kid gets better after getting pinned or pinning after 30 seconds.
Jan 29, 2010 8:33am