derek bomar wrote:

sleeper wrote:

I'm not defending the Rooney Rule. I'm just here to point out you're an idiot. And your last point about naming Black Coaches who have been denied entry into the NFL...well how am I supposed to name them? Is there a list I can reference of black coaches who haven't been interviewed because they're black?

That's the point, no coach has been denied because of race. Period. There is no point to the Rooney rule other than to give minorities another entitlement that they do not deserve.

Sure dude. If you say its true it must be so. It must be because by a 5.4 x 1 ratio, whites are better coaches than blacks in the NFL and 28.25 x 1 ratio in Division 1 football. Never mind the fact that the majority of players in both are black. Wiki tells me around 63% of the people in the US are white. So about 1/3 of the rest of the population isn't. Starting from there, there should be roughly around a 1/3 % of coaches in both leagues who are not white, since coaching isn't some innate skill you're born with (whites are better because they're white argument you're so fond of). That's not the case though, because for years it's been a whites only club and just recently (in the last couple decades) has it began to shift.

The point is that teams and universities are risk averse...meaning when faced with the option of hiring/interviewing the safe white coach with HC experience vs. a non-white coordinator with no HC experience, they'll go with the guy with experience. They're not going to risk tons of $ over someone who they know nothing about.

Progress is slow, and although I don't think people should be given jobs or interviews just because they're a certain race, I think in this case you're a fool if you think whites are the majority of coaches because whites are better at it. So, in summation, you're a ratard.

Welcome to the real world, AA.

And seriously, why should it matter that we have minorities in HC positions? Why are they entitled to become head coaches?

Interestingly enough, the population argument works better for me, since around 6% of all people in America are black, which fits nicely in with how many coaches in the NFL are black.

sleeper wrote: Welcome to the real world, AA.

And seriously, why should it matter that we have minorities in HC positions? Why are they entitled to become head coaches?

Interestingly enough, the population argument works better for me, since around 6% of all people in America are black, which fits nicely in with how many coaches in the NFL are black.

No one has said that minorities are entitled to become head coaches. Again, you and the other boneheads can't seem to differentiate between an interview and a hiring.

And over 12% of the American population is black, not 6%. Heck, I'd like to know the last time that the black population was 6% or lower.

I still think it's retarded that a team HAS to interview a minority, especially if they already have a coach they want. Great coaches will be found, regardless of color.

NNN wrote:

sleeper wrote: Welcome to the real world, AA.

And seriously, why should it matter that we have minorities in HC positions? Why are they entitled to become head coaches?

Interestingly enough, the population argument works better for me, since around 6% of all people in America are black, which fits nicely in with how many coaches in the NFL are black.

No one has said that minorities are entitled to become head coaches. Again, you and the other boneheads can't seem to differentiate between an interview and a hiring.

And over 12% of the American population is black, not 6%. Heck, I'd like to know the last time that the black population was 6% or lower.

It's not the rule but the push behind the emergence of the rule that IS racist. Your failure to acknowledge it serves to confirm that bonehead can be applied liberally, pun intended.

ytownfootball wrote:

NNN wrote:

sleeper wrote: Welcome to the real world, AA.

And seriously, why should it matter that we have minorities in HC positions? Why are they entitled to become head coaches?

Interestingly enough, the population argument works better for me, since around 6% of all people in America are black, which fits nicely in with how many coaches in the NFL are black.

No one has said that minorities are entitled to become head coaches. Again, you and the other boneheads can't seem to differentiate between an interview and a hiring.

And over 12% of the American population is black, not 6%. Heck, I'd like to know the last time that the black population was 6% or lower.

It's not the rule but the push behind the emergence of the rule that IS racist. Your failure to acknowledge it serves to confirm that bonehead can be applied liberally, pun intended.

But, but, but...REAL racism can only happen if it's the actual minority that gets the shaft. I know, because every Democrat has told me so, including Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

They can't possibly be wrong. :rolleyes:

When does it extend past an interview though..

When will we see a team basically forced into hiring a minority coach to meet a league quota or something?

The way I see it, the Rooney rule does more good than it harms. Granted in some situations like the Seattle, or the Washington one the guys were just token interviews. But a lot of the time, it helps gets minority coaches feet in the door, when it comes to getting a job.

Mike Singletary's interview with the Falcons, when Bobby Petrino was hired, basically set him up to be hired by the 49ers as their Head Coach when they fired Mike Nolan.

NNN wrote:

sleeper wrote: Welcome to the real world, AA.

And seriously, why should it matter that we have minorities in HC positions? Why are they entitled to become head coaches?

Interestingly enough, the population argument works better for me, since around 6% of all people in America are black, which fits nicely in with how many coaches in the NFL are black.

No one has said that minorities are entitled to become head coaches. Again, you and the other boneheads can't seem to differentiate between an interview and a hiring.

And over 12% of the American population is black, not 6%. Heck, I'd like to know the last time that the black population was 6% or lower.

I wasn't counting the ones in prison.

sleeper wrote:

NNN wrote:

sleeper wrote: Welcome to the real world, AA.

And seriously, why should it matter that we have minorities in HC positions? Why are they entitled to become head coaches?

Interestingly enough, the population argument works better for me, since around 6% of all people in America are black, which fits nicely in with how many coaches in the NFL are black.

No one has said that minorities are entitled to become head coaches. Again, you and the other boneheads can't seem to differentiate between an interview and a hiring.

And over 12% of the American population is black, not 6%. Heck, I'd like to know the last time that the black population was 6% or lower.

I wasn't counting the ones in prison.

Now that was low!

Of course it is sleeper pretty much gutter trash himself. Sleeper is the epitome of a comment Chris Rock made in one of his stand up routines.

@ Sleeper

Black males make up 17,329,095 of the U.S. Population. There are 791,600 African American males behind bars. That makes it only 4% of the Black race locked up.

The U.S. population is 274,595,678 people. Once you enter the numbers of black males locked up (791,600), it is only 0.28% of the U.S population. So even if you were to subtract that from the 12% of African Americans in the U.S., the black population is still at 11.72% of the population. Nowhere near half (6%) you claimed. Black women are nowhere near the rate as black men locked up, so even if I added them, there wouldn't be much of a difference at all.

Hope that's enough facts for you. As I told you early, you claim that Blacks use the race card any chance they get, but it’s those kind of statement like yours that gives them a reason too. There is nothing wrong with discussing race, because it would help both sides understand each other better. But we will struggle to make progress if one group of people continues to bad mouth another any chance they get. We must hear all sides in a respectful manner.

mallymal614 wrote: But we will struggle to make progress if one group of people continues to bad mouth another any chance they get. We must hear all sides in a respectful manner.

We might struggle also if one group is continuously getting handouts in the form of job quotas, special scholarships, forced to give interviews to, etc. And in reference to your other point, it isn't one group of people bad mouthing another, they both bad mouth each other.

Automatik wrote: You guys are completely off base with your comments. Wow...absolutely clueless.

They don't just bring in some African-American guy in to waste their time and be done with it. They interview the AA candidate and them refer them to other franchises. Its a way to get AA candidates consideration for higher positions throughout the league....not just the team that interviewed them. If the team likes what they see they refer them to others.

If you're a good coach, you'll get your opportunity.

Point is, it's not fair to have it set up so that an AA can get a position when everybody works just as hard and isn't guaranteed interviews.

It's a dumbass rule, and needs to be eliminated, and unfortunately won't.

Just work hard, and you'll get a position, eventually.

iclfan2 wrote:

mallymal614 wrote: But we will struggle to make progress if one group of people continues to bad mouth another any chance they get. We must hear all sides in a respectful manner.

We might struggle also if one group is continuously getting handouts in the form of job quotas, special scholarships, forced to give interviews to, etc. And in reference to your other point, it isn't one group of people bad mouthing another, they both bad mouth each other.

Just like I told the other poster, all blacks don't receive handouts. You're labeling an entire race of people as the same. That's a stereotype. . For example, too many people associate welfare with African Americans, when it's a FACT that more whites are on it than blacks. So aren't the whites who receive it getting "handouts?" How about the many people who get into college based on Legacy admission? I can go on as well. I never blamed just one group of people bad mouthing the other. I was saying it can go both ways. I agree with you 100% that it isn't just one race that is doing it. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, and others have to be more mature in these conversations. All whites aren't racist; all blacks don't want a pass in life. Let's keep this respectful. We were having a good conversation, but it seems like some people just can't keep their cool on this kind topic.

mallymal614 wrote:

iclfan2 wrote:

mallymal614 wrote: But we will struggle to make progress if one group of people continues to bad mouth another any chance they get. We must hear all sides in a respectful manner.

We might struggle also if one group is continuously getting handouts in the form of job quotas, special scholarships, forced to give interviews to, etc. And in reference to your other point, it isn't one group of people bad mouthing another, they both bad mouth each other.

Just like I told the other poster, all blacks don't receive handouts. You're labeling an entire race of people as the same. That's a stereotype. . For example, too many people associate welfare with African Americans, when it's a FACT that more whites are on it than blacks. So aren't the whites who receive it getting "handouts?" How about the many people who get into college based on Legacy admission? I can go on as well. I never blamed just one group of people bad mouthing the other. I was saying it can go both ways. I agree with you 100% that it isn't just one race that is doing it. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, and others have to be more mature in these conversations. All whites aren't racist; all blacks don't want a pass in life. Let's keep this respectful. We were having a good conversation, but it seems like some people just can't keep their cool on this kind topic.

There are more whites than blacks, about 5x more, so it would make sense that there would be more poor whites than poor blacks, right?

The difference is the poor white people don't get any special advantages while the black people do, based solely on their race. It's morons like you that defend these clearly discriminatory laws/rules/entitlements that ruin it for people who actually deserve assistance, whether they be white/black/or whatever.

mallymal614 wrote: Just like I told the other poster, all blacks don't receive handouts. You're labeling an entire race of people as the same. That's a stereotype. . For example, too many people associate welfare with African Americans, when it's a FACT that more whites are on it than blacks. So aren't the whites who receive it getting "handouts?" How about the many people who get into college based on Legacy admission? I can go on as well. I never blamed just one group of people bad mouthing the other. I was saying it can go both ways. I agree with you 100% that it isn't just one race that is doing it. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, and others have to be more mature in these conversations. All whites aren't racist; all blacks don't want a pass in life. Let's keep this respectful. We were having a good conversation, but it seems like some people just can't keep their cool on this kind topic.

I wasn't talking about wealth based handouts. I was talking about handouts BASED on race. Such as quota's, scholarships, etc. That isn't a stereotype. I didn't get to have a lower GPA to get a scholarship. What I was saying is that as long as there are entitlement programs such as those, based on race (which a legacy admission isn't) like the Rooney rule, the other side will feel slighted. If true equality wants to exist they have to cut programs that give benefits based on racial makeup because all it does is hurt progress in the long run. MLK wanted people to be judged on character instead of color. Seems like the opposite of that is still occurring except instead of it holding someone now it is artificially lifting someone up.

sleeper wrote:

mallymal614 wrote:

iclfan2 wrote:

mallymal614 wrote: But we will struggle to make progress if one group of people continues to bad mouth another any chance they get. We must hear all sides in a respectful manner.

We might struggle also if one group is continuously getting handouts in the form of job quotas, special scholarships, forced to give interviews to, etc. And in reference to your other point, it isn't one group of people bad mouthing another, they both bad mouth each other.

Just like I told the other poster, all blacks don't receive handouts. You're labeling an entire race of people as the same. That's a stereotype. . For example, too many people associate welfare with African Americans, when it's a FACT that more whites are on it than blacks. So aren't the whites who receive it getting "handouts?" How about the many people who get into college based on Legacy admission? I can go on as well. I never blamed just one group of people bad mouthing the other. I was saying it can go both ways. I agree with you 100% that it isn't just one race that is doing it. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, and others have to be more mature in these conversations. All whites aren't racist; all blacks don't want a pass in life. Let's keep this respectful. We were having a good conversation, but it seems like some people just can't keep their cool on this kind topic.

There are more whites than blacks, about 5x more, so it would make sense that there would be more poor whites than poor blacks, right?

The difference is the poor white people don't get any special advantages while the black people do, based solely on their race. It's morons like you that defend these clearly discriminatory laws/rules/entitlements that ruin it for people who actually deserve assistance, whether they be white/black/or whatever.

Is there really need for name calling? Let's disagree like adults. I do agree that others need assistance as well, such as poor whites, women, and others who may have it hard in society. But what is being ignored is that there are programs that help those people as well, but nowhere near as talked about when it comes to people of color receiving assistance. Let's keep it cool Sleeper and not attack one another. We should never resort to that level. Just like you have your opinion, I have mines. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

Sleeper, when's the next rally?

iclfan2 wrote:

mallymal614 wrote: Just like I told the other poster, all blacks don't receive handouts. You're labeling an entire race of people as the same. That's a stereotype. . For example, too many people associate welfare with African Americans, when it's a FACT that more whites are on it than blacks. So aren't the whites who receive it getting "handouts?" How about the many people who get into college based on Legacy admission? I can go on as well. I never blamed just one group of people bad mouthing the other. I was saying it can go both ways. I agree with you 100% that it isn't just one race that is doing it. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, and others have to be more mature in these conversations. All whites aren't racist; all blacks don't want a pass in life. Let's keep this respectful. We were having a good conversation, but it seems like some people just can't keep their cool on this kind topic.

I wasn't talking about wealth based handouts. I was talking about handouts BASED on race. Such as quota's, scholarships, etc. That isn't a stereotype. I didn't get to have a lower GPA to get a scholarship. What I was saying is that as long as there are entitlement programs such as those, based on race (which a legacy admission isn't) like the Rooney rule, the other side will feel slighted. If true equality wants to exist they have to cut programs that give benefits based on racial makeup because all it does is hurt progress in the long run. MLK wanted people to be judged on character instead of color. Seems like the opposite of that is still occurring except instead of it holding someone now it is artificially lifting someone up.

Okay, I see where you coming from. Sorry for taking your post out of context. I can understand why White American would find that frustrating. I will say this and there may be some that might disagree with me. I think forced integration hurt White Americans and African Americans. Not saying integration as a whole but forced. People still shouldn’t be segregated, because everyone should have the right to go anywhere they want. Prior to the Civil Rights bill, blacks businesses were flourishing in America. Due to the Jim Crow laws, they were forced to work with their own kind. So they hired their own people, kept dollars in the community, which built wealth. Once society started to push integration, Blacks no longer had control over their economics. They started to work for white establishments, which were more comfortable and used to hiring their own. This left some blacks out of jobs, which led to protests and so on. In process, a lot of laws were made for minorities who were discriminated against in the job market. So with me saying all this, if Blacks would have continued to work with each other, instead of society pushing integration, Black owned businesses would be bigger and better today. Jews are very successful with finances because they work with their own kind and keep the dollars in their community. The same can be said with the Koreans, Arabs, and other ethnic groups. When that happens, there is no need for a group of people to complain what they are entitled to and another group complaining how unfair that is.

i would say that prior to the civil rights bill black businesses would not be charachterized as flourishing and not long before that blacks were slaves.......im not sure the other groups faced that type of oppression in this country. just my opinion.

Gblock wrote: i would say that prior to the civil rights bill black businesses would not be charachterized as flourishing and not long before that blacks were slaves.......im not sure the other groups faced that type of oppression in this country. just my opinion.

I agree with you on the oppression part Gblock. Slavery was horrific. 400 years of free labor, in which African Americans haven't received a dime for. That still plays a huge role in society, but that's another topic. Today Blacks are doing better individually when it comes to economics but not collectively. I'll use a few examples. People look at the Negro Baseball League as just a league full of black baseball players. It was much more than that. When it shut down, so did the black newspapers that covered it, the black concession stands workers, the black janitors who worked in it, the black broadcasters, black security, and so on. It was a trickledown effect. When Integration was started to become forced, the Black CEO of a company, was demoted to Assistant Managers in a white company. Black Principals were demoted to teachers after the Brown vs. The Board of education. So when all of that begin to happen, African Americans lost its economic power, because they can no longer hired their own because they no longer "owned" their stuff.

From the 1900-1940, African Americans were better economically than any other time period in American History. Use the city Rosewood Florida in 1923 for example, a beautiful Black Town that was having much more success than Sumner, a white town a few miles down. African Americans lived big houses and were successful entrepreneurs. One day a false allegation angered the whites in Sumner, and they went on a Riot for days, killing blacks and destroying Rosewood.

Tulsa Oklahoma nicked name was "Black Wall Street." This town was full of Black owned hospitals, train stations, law films, stores, factories, and more. However, just as the case in Rosewood, a race riot broke out destroying the Black Wall Street. I haven't even counted the many black owned operations that were destroyed by the KKK during this era. So this killed the myth that Blacks NEVER worked for anything, because when they did, it was cowardly wiped out.

Marcus Garvey had one of the biggest Newspapers in the world called Negro World. It was an international paper, not just here in America. Booker T. Washington built many black institutions. Cities like Harlem, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago started successful record labels, where famous black artist were born. So Blacks were at one point flourishing. If that can still happen today, that can reduce the jealousy that goes on.

honestly i dont hear blacks complaining......its not like we sit around saying woe is me....i dont know anyone who ever got a job because of a qouta in the last 15 years.....as far as scholarships....i bet you that if you ask a senior class student black or white who attends ps 119 in ny city or chicago if they get the same education as someone at dublin coffman or a similar school they would gladly trade schools and gladly be subjected to higher standards...so until you are going to fund education for all students fairly that argument doesnt hold much water to me...i certainly dont feel bad for my caucasian brothers.....and i am half black and half white so i see it from both sides pretty well i think.=)

Gblock wrote: honestly i dont hear blacks complaining......its not like we sit around saying woe is me....i dont know anyone who ever got a job because of a qouta in the last 15 years.....as far as scholarships....i bet you that if you ask a senior class student black or white who attends ps 119 in ny city or chicago if they get the same education as someone at dublin coffman or a similar school they would gladly trade schools and gladly be subjected to higher standards...so until you are going to fund education for all students fairly that argument doesnt hold much water to me...i certainly dont feel bad for my caucasian brothers.....and i am half black and half white so i see it from both sides pretty well i think.=)

Great post! The Public school system can be a joke and there are Blacks out there who can't afford to move out to the suburb to get a better education. So there is a bigger picture in all this that is totally being ignored. We must throw all the facts out there to get a better understanding.

I agree with you on the oppression part Gblock. Slavery was horrific. 400 years of free labor, in which African Americans haven't received a dime for.

You serious? Africans haven't recieved a dime? Guess who made the BIGGEST profit from the slave trade...Just guess.

Blacks! They sold their own people, and now blame the white man for their trouble!

I'm all for equality, but if someone thinks they are entitled to something based solely on their race then they are in fact, a racist. Yet, it seems whenever a white man comes out and preaches real equality, you know the kind where everyone is treated equal(not the free handouts, quotes, rooney rules), they are labeled a racist!

LOL

sleeper wrote:

I agree with you on the oppression part Gblock. Slavery was horrific. 400 years of free labor, in which African Americans haven't received a dime for.

You serious? Africans haven't recieved a dime? Guess who made the BIGGEST profit from the slave trade...Just guess.

Blacks! They sold their own people, and now blame the white man for their trouble!

I'm all for equality, but if someone thinks they are entitled to something based solely on their race then they are in fact, a racist. Yet, it seems whenever a white man comes out and preaches real equality, you know the kind where everyone is treated equal(not the free handouts, quotes, rooney rules), they are labeled a racist!

LOL

Agreed.