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Switzerland Guaranteed Income

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Politics ▸ Switzerland Guaranteed Income
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gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Oct 7, 2013 11:19 PM
LMAO....almost $3k/mo, plus free healthcare?.... I'd probably just retire. And I can only imagine that nearly 3/4 of the population would as well - if that's after-tax, which I'd assume, in Switzerland you're probably talking something close to the equivalent salary of $50-$60k/yr.

Actually think about what that would mean for an overall quality of life when 90% of all businesses and services shutdown because you can't afford to hire anyone and still make a profit.
Oct 7, 2013 11:19pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Oct 8, 2013 5:29 AM
sign me up

Gotta love Euro-socialism
Oct 8, 2013 5:29am
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Oct 8, 2013 7:48 AM
I'm in. Moving tomorrow.
Oct 8, 2013 7:48am
BGFalcons82's avatar

BGFalcons82

Senior Member

2,173 posts
Oct 8, 2013 8:25 AM
Since they don't print their own, or have a central bank that invents it out of thin air, what happens when they run out of other people's money?
Oct 8, 2013 8:25am
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Oct 8, 2013 8:32 AM
BGFalcons82;1514797 wrote:Since they don't print their own, or have a central bank that invents it out of thin air, what happens when they run out of other people's money?
This sounds like something someone that hates poor people would ask...
Oct 8, 2013 8:32am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Oct 8, 2013 8:59 AM
In other news, 3-5 years from now if that is passed, Switzerland will be worse off than what Spain and Greece was a couple years ago.
Oct 8, 2013 8:59am
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Oct 8, 2013 9:26 AM
BGFalcons82;1514797 wrote:Since they don't print their own, or have a central bank that invents it out of thin air, what happens when they run out of other people's money?
The Swiss have their own currency and a Central Bank....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_franc


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_National_Bank

Currently not a totally free-floating exchange rate though as the SNB has put in place an exchange rate floor but they could easily remove that if need be unlike something like the gold standard.
Oct 8, 2013 9:26am
BGFalcons82's avatar

BGFalcons82

Senior Member

2,173 posts
Oct 8, 2013 9:31 AM
justincredible;1514800 wrote:This sounds like something someone that hates poor people would ask...
As opposed to someone that loves the p00r so much that they want to create more of them?
Oct 8, 2013 9:31am
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BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Oct 8, 2013 9:35 AM
Now if the Swizz just attached it to a work requirement and installed an Employer of Last Resort regime and eliminated most (if not all) of its transfer payment/welfare programs you'd have a great policy! Mind you, Switzerland doesn't have Single-Payer but a healthcare regime more like Obama/Romney/Newt/HeritageCare.
Oct 8, 2013 9:35am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Oct 8, 2013 9:44 AM
gut;1514719 wrote:LMAO....almost $3k/mo, plus free healthcare?.... I'd probably just retire. And I can only imagine that nearly 3/4 of the population would as well - if that's after-tax, which I'd assume, in Switzerland you're probably talking something close to the equivalent salary of $50-$60k/yr.

Actually think about what that would mean for an overall quality of life when 90% of all businesses and services shutdown because you can't afford to hire anyone and still make a profit.
Wouldn't prices increase, thus negating any real benefit from the $3k/mo in free money?
Oct 8, 2013 9:44am
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Oct 8, 2013 9:50 AM
sleeper;1514840 wrote:Wouldn't prices increase, thus negating any real benefit from the $3k/mo in free money?
Not if taxes are high enough, a lot of it is saved and/or the Swiss Economy (and the world economy depending on its balance of trade) can meet any new demand with increased output.
Oct 8, 2013 9:50am
G

gport_tennis

Senior Member

1,796 posts
Oct 8, 2013 10:06 AM
It only takes 100,000 signatures to make the govt formally vote on anything in Switzerland. This will get shot down quickly
Oct 8, 2013 10:06am
Me?'s avatar

Me?

Senior Member

547 posts
Oct 8, 2013 12:16 PM
Nationalized collective suicide! Woooooo!
Oct 8, 2013 12:16pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Oct 8, 2013 2:44 PM
BoatShoes;1514842 wrote:Not if taxes are high enough, a lot of it is saved and/or the Swiss Economy (and the world economy depending on its balance of trade) can meet any new demand with increased output.
So the government is going to give each citizen $3k a month only to tax 70% of it? I doubt it. I don't really think you could raise taxes high enough where people would still work.

Personally, I hope it gets passed. It would be an interesting case study and would have almost no affect on me.
Oct 8, 2013 2:44pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Oct 8, 2013 5:06 PM
BoatShoes;1514842 wrote:Not if taxes are high enough, a lot of it is saved and/or the Swiss Economy (and the world economy depending on its balance of trade) can meet any new demand with increased output.
So you're saying the govt should give them $2800 a month, and then turn around and take $3k+ a month from them in taxes to provide goods and services? That's just plain stupid.

Get enough people to take the free ride because it's so attractive and productivity doesn't just drop, it collapses. And then there's nothing left to tax.
Oct 8, 2013 5:06pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Oct 10, 2013 1:33 PM
It kind of sounds a lot like Milton Friedman's 'negative Income tax' and as such might not be the terrible idea that it sounds like. Imagine...no medicaid, subsidized housing food stamps, bureaucracy....the government just cuts everyone a minmum poverty level check. You spend it on what you want to spend it on. There is no system to scam and there is no disincentive to get a job.
Oct 10, 2013 1:33pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Oct 11, 2013 4:39 PM
HitsRus;1515965 wrote:It kind of sounds a lot like Milton Friedman's 'negative Income tax' and as such might not be the terrible idea that it sounds like. Imagine...no medicaid, subsidized housing food stamps, bureaucracy....the government just cuts everyone a minmum poverty level check. You spend it on what you want to spend it on. There is no system to scam and there is no disincentive to get a job.
^^^This. I'm telling you there are things we can all agree on. No obamaphones, no high implicit marginal tax rates on low-wage workers because of means testing, no public housing, no section 8, no more people scamming to get on disability when the can't find work...

Job Guarantee/Public Works Requirement/Employer of Last Resort (whatever you want to call it) + Basic Income Guarantee - Hodge Podge Welfare State = Full Employment, Steady NGDP growth, Price Stability and good incentives to work.
Oct 11, 2013 4:39pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Oct 11, 2013 4:54 PM
BoatShoes;1516554 wrote:^^^This. I'm telling you there are things we can all agree on. No obamaphones, no high implicit marginal tax rates on low-wage workers because of means testing, no public housing, no section 8, no more people scamming to get on disability when the can't find work...

Job Guarantee/Public Works Requirement/Employer of Last Resort (whatever you want to call it) + Basic Income Guarantee - Hodge Podge Welfare State = Full Employment, Steady NGDP growth, Price Stability and good incentives to work.
Maybe you misunderstood what HR said, but he was talking about giving EVERYONE the same amount of money. Then if you work and make $250k on your own on top of it, good for you.

I find it hard to believe a Keynesian Marxist ( just messing with you boat) like you would agree to give all those "fat cat evil rich" the same government 'help' as those poor unforunately souls.
Oct 11, 2013 4:54pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Oct 11, 2013 9:06 PM
jmog;1516559 wrote:Maybe you misunderstood what HR said, but he was talking about giving EVERYONE the same amount of money. Then if you work and make $250k on your own on top of it, good for you.

I find it hard to believe a Keynesian Marxist ( just messing with you boat) like you would agree to give all those "fat cat evil rich" the same government 'help' as those poor unforunately souls.
I absolutely understood what HR is talking about, what the Negative Income tax is and what a BIG (basic income guarantee) is. I realize you were just messing but if you think that keynesianism has anything to do with "punishing fat cats" you're confusing it with the morals of contemporary liberals who think it's necessary and just to redistribute income from high earners to the poor.

I'm for the government running deficits to stabilize aggregate demand. A basic income guarantee that provides a basic income to every citizen, rich and poor, is the best way to stabilize nGDP because we don't have to rely on stimulus bills and Congress to put together pork filled projects when the economy goes bad because we will end up with inadequate stimulus bills like the Recovery Act.

There has to be a work requirement and job guarantee though to ensure that you don't get malibu surfers livin the life on the dole, etc.
Oct 11, 2013 9:06pm