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Seed nominations records

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Seed nominations records
B

bump_and_run

Senior Member

321 posts
Feb 14, 2013 4:17 PM
Bitterrunner-up;1389316 wrote:I think the correct term is Bitter runners up.
bitters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitters
Feb 14, 2013 4:17pm
D

Dsmith

Junior Member

6 posts
Feb 14, 2013 4:18 PM
Why not keep it simple.

SP, SQ, DQ, Sectional Placer, Record, Head to Head
If there are 3 District qualifiers in a weight class - that's 1-2-3
That doesn't seem to be the case in Central Ohio for whatever reason. If a Freshman has a 20-5 record and a returning DQ has a 18-7 the freshman is getting the higher seed here because he has higher Crit. % or because the coaches voted? Tournaments are usually based off of past winners, sp,sq,dq etc.. then record as the latter criteria
Feb 14, 2013 4:18pm
nykc's avatar

nykc

Senior Member

276 posts
Feb 14, 2013 4:21 PM
I guess the end result would make for a tougher district road should a deserving 2-3 seed get 4th and lose in semi's but the cream does eventually rise to the top.
Feb 14, 2013 4:21pm
E

Ellison

Member

37 posts
Feb 14, 2013 4:24 PM
Dsmith;1389337 wrote:Why not keep it simple.

SP, SQ, DQ, Sectional Placer, Record, Head to Head
If there are 3 District qualifiers in a weight class - that's 1-2-3
That doesn't seem to be the case in Central Ohio for whatever reason. If a Freshman has a 20-5 record and a returning DQ has a 18-7 the freshman is getting the higher seed here because he has higher Crit. % or because the coaches voted? Tournaments are usually based off of past winners, sp,sq,dq etc.. then record as the latter criteria

Should the Freshman be seeded last if he wrestled everyone onf them and couple of state placers in the bracket and teched them all? It's really not fair for a freshman to get no recognition simply because he was an 8th grader the previous year. (No I don't have a freshman this year)
Feb 14, 2013 4:24pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Feb 14, 2013 4:35 PM
Ellison;1389341 wrote:Should the Freshman be seeded last if he wrestled everyone onf them and couple of state placers in the bracket and teched them all? It's really not fair for a freshman to get no recognition simply because he was an 8th grader the previous year. (No I don't have a freshman this year)
If he's that good, he'll win regardless of seeding.

To add to my earlier questions, is there any data that suggests this method of seeding is more accurate based on outcome than those of the other areas of the state?
Feb 14, 2013 4:35pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 14, 2013 5:45 PM
Dsmith;1389337 wrote:If a Freshman has a 20-5 record and a returning DQ has a 18-7 the freshman is getting the higher seed here because he has higher Crit. % or because the coaches voted?
no.....that's not how it works. The record (criteria) has nothing to do with it. From what I've heard (never been in a meeting), the director throws open a weight. The floor is open to any coaches that want to put up a wrestler for the top seed. He has the opportunity to make his case (previous placements, record, strength-of-schedule, etc.). So let's assume there are 2 kids nominated....after the discussion has ended, it is put to a coaches vote. Then this is repeated......don't know if they go past the 4th seed or not.....but you get the idea.
Feb 14, 2013 5:45pm
E

Ellison

Member

37 posts
Feb 14, 2013 6:35 PM
queencitybuckeye;1389346 wrote:If he's that good, he'll win regardless of seeding.

To add to my earlier questions, is there any data that suggests this method of seeding is more accurate based on outcome than those of the other areas of the state?
Since the best will always win regardless of seeding (and they will), it kinda makes seeding a waste of time.
Feb 14, 2013 6:35pm
bribacker51's avatar

bribacker51

Senior Member

573 posts
Feb 14, 2013 6:55 PM
Dad4Sports;1389387 wrote:no.....that's not how it works. The record (criteria) has nothing to do with it. From what I've heard (never been in a meeting), the director throws open a weight. The floor is open to any coaches that want to put up a wrestler for the top seed. He has the opportunity to make his case (previous placements, record, strength-of-schedule, etc.). So let's assume there are 2 kids nominated....after the discussion has ended, it is put to a coaches vote. Then this is repeated......don't know if they go past the 4th seed or not.....but you get the idea.
One note to add for a coach to put up a wrestler for seed he must have a winning record.
Feb 14, 2013 6:55pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 14, 2013 7:08 PM
bribacker51;1389411 wrote:One note to add for a coach to put up a wrestler for seed he must have a winning record.
...with a specified minimum number of matches wrestled.
Feb 14, 2013 7:08pm
C

Cthelites

Senior Member

1,951 posts
Feb 14, 2013 7:42 PM
Ellison;1389402 wrote:Since the best will always win regardless of seeding (and they will), it kinda makes seeding a waste of time.
the best yes, but when 4 get out, 3 of them will have at least 1 loss.
Seeding is huge when you are looking at that 4 spot!
Feb 14, 2013 7:42pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 14, 2013 8:28 PM
Cthelites;1389435 wrote:the best yes, but when 4 get out, 3 of them will have at least 1 loss.
Seeding is huge when you are looking at that 4 spot!
Yes.....doesn't matter much to the #1 or#2 where they are is seeded. However, to the rest, the seeding can make the difference of getting out or not getting out
Feb 14, 2013 8:28pm
C

Coach Ramirez

Senior Member

232 posts
Feb 14, 2013 10:56 PM
If you don't get out of central Ohio sectionals, you probably don't deserve too advance. Just keep working harder to change things next year!
Feb 14, 2013 10:56pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 15, 2013 6:53 AM
Coach Ramirez;1389551 wrote:If you don't get out of central Ohio sectionals, you probably don't deserve too advance. Just keep working harder to change things next year!
Bingo.
Feb 15, 2013 6:53am
L

lowsingle174

Senior Member

575 posts
Feb 15, 2013 8:21 AM
Coach Ramirez;1389551 wrote:If you don't get out of central Ohio sectionals, you probably don't deserve too advance. Just keep working harder to change things next year!
This^
Feb 15, 2013 8:21am
E

Ellison

Member

37 posts
Feb 15, 2013 8:31 AM
Cthelites;1389435 wrote:the best yes, but when 4 get out, 3 of them will have at least 1 loss.
Seeding is huge when you are looking at that 4 spot!

Thank you! AGREE!!!! (You missed my sarcasm, sir.) Some are concerned about upstart Freshmen being seeded higher than DQs. If I were a coach and my kid was a 3 time DQ and this Freshman had teched my guy... I'd be the first one voting that the Freshman be seeded. If my kid is number 1 seed and the unseeded Freshman beats him first round, now he's a 3 or 4 instead of a 2.
Feb 15, 2013 8:31am
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 15, 2013 9:42 AM
Much ado about nothing. Most are 6 and 8 man brackets and this isn't The Big Ten. Is there really any weight classes this week where a solid state qualifier is not getting out to Darby?
Feb 15, 2013 9:42am
nykc's avatar

nykc

Senior Member

276 posts
Feb 15, 2013 10:47 AM
Not in these watered down sectionals, the bigger issue is the 1 v 4, 2 v 3 dynamic. You want to get out at #2 in the sectional at worse in some weights and in order to do that being 4 is not an option. It has an impact of who you wrestle first in districts.

120 for example:

I would rather face Gasca than Rahmani in the semis at Marysville
I would rather face Terry than Timchenko in semis at Watkins
I would rather face Fluty than Wimer at Westland in semis
I would rather face Valenti than Penzone at Pick N. in semis

Better shot at number 2 than number 1 in these weight classes, and I would rather wrestle the No. 3 guy than 1 or 2 come districts because the odds are I can win some more matches that way
Feb 15, 2013 10:47am
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 15, 2013 12:19 PM
nykc;1389743 wrote:Not in these watered down sectionals, the bigger issue is the 1 v 4, 2 v 3 dynamic. You want to get out at #2 in the sectional at worse in some weights and in order to do that being 4 is not an option. It has an impact of who you wrestle first in districts.

120 for example:

I would rather face Gasca than Rahmani in the semis at Marysville
I would rather face Terry than Timchenko in semis at Watkins
I would rather face Fluty than Wimer at Westland in semis
I would rather face Valenti than Penzone at Pick N. in semis

Better shot at number 2 than number 1 in these weight classes, and I would rather wrestle the No. 3 guy than 1 or 2 come districts because the odds are I can win some more matches that way
Not sure if anybody has told you yet, but you are going to face a #1 or a #2 Friday night at Darby regardless.
Feb 15, 2013 12:19pm
nykc's avatar

nykc

Senior Member

276 posts
Feb 15, 2013 12:28 PM
That's kind of the point.. Face them at Darby! Why would you want to face them in the semi's at sectionals can you elaborate for me, what are the benefits to being 4th seed at sectionals?
Feb 15, 2013 12:28pm
C

Coach Hennosy

Member

89 posts
Feb 15, 2013 12:31 PM
"Not in these watered down sectionals, the bigger issue is the 1 v 4, 2 v 3 dynamic."

come on it can't be that big of a deal ... some here keep stating if your good you make it anyway. :huh:

As a coach, there are two types of kids. The young one, I want to get to districts for the experience. The great one, I want to get to states. I want to use any way possible, short of cheating, to get them there. I don't care if my kid is good enough or just damn lucky. Seeding / line placement can be the last little piece of coaching I can do to get the job done.
Feb 15, 2013 12:31pm
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 15, 2013 12:40 PM
nykc;1389808 wrote:That's kind of the point.. Face them at Darby! Why would you want to face them in the semi's at sectionals can you elaborate for me, what are the benefits to being 4th seed at sectionals?

Are you one of those guys that would prefer to have the top 4 all at one sectional (ie, 138 Marysville) and your kid face no competition until Darby? Is that what you are trying to say? What does that accomplish? In the end, seeds mean NOTHING. Sectionals do nothing more than qualify you for a spot on a predetermined line in a bracket at Darby. In the end, even your designated line means NOTHING. History is filled with 4s over 1s and 3s or 2s and so on. The better kids will win whether the qualify as a 4 or a 2. Being a #1 or #2 really means nothing. The top 4 placers get out based on performance. It really is that simple. Roll them out and lets go.

This thread officially kicks off the silly season.
Feb 15, 2013 12:40pm
nykc's avatar

nykc

Senior Member

276 posts
Feb 15, 2013 12:50 PM
Why not have the 1 and 2 seed meet in the semis then since seeds mean NOTHING? I am trying to understand your logic and I am sorry but it just does not compute...


Feb 15, 2013 12:50pm
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 15, 2013 1:00 PM
That very scenario of the top two kids meeting in the semis could happen in a lot of weights at Darby as there is no seeding. Never hear anybody complain because if they are the two best kids, they will qualify for a line on a bracket the next week at The Schott were ironically they also do not seed. Jake Ryan vs Forrider last year comes to mind.

The reason it doesn't compute is because I get the feeling that you can not wrap yourself around the idea that the sectionals are ridiculously soft and only serve as a qualifier for a continuing tournament that does not seed after its opening weekend. All preceived injustices can be rectified next weekend by outperforming your opponents.
Feb 15, 2013 1:00pm
nykc's avatar

nykc

Senior Member

276 posts
Feb 15, 2013 1:08 PM
40 kids 4 sectionals, 16 move on -
then 4 from 1 District... Process of elimination that is the point.
The goal should be to have 16 good/decent wrestlers moving on to districts not 10 good wrestlers and 5 average joes and 1 that don't belong...
Feb 15, 2013 1:08pm
C

capthook

Member

33 posts
Feb 15, 2013 3:07 PM
nykc;1389836 wrote:40 kids 4 sectionals, 16 move on -
then 4 from 1 District... Process of elimination that is the point.
The goal should be to have 16 good/decent wrestlers moving on to districts not 10 good wrestlers and 5 average joes and 1 that don't belong...
I think little Joey should come out and wrestle hard and hopefully he is one of the 4 moving on. Good to all the boys who busted their butts all season for this post season and may the best man win.
Feb 15, 2013 3:07pm