Falcons53 wrote:
That's funny because the current "top heads" were appointed by the LAST president. Yep, you are right, they are simply pawns for the President.

How does that in any way disprove what I said. Regardless of who they were appointed by, they are political pawns of the Presidents. They are appointed and removed at will.

gosh a rooties we would not want to hurt Muslims feeling
when Sgt. Asan Akbar killing officers from 101St airborne, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad killing an army recruiter, or hasson on his killing spree. they stack up the bodies of soldier victims while so many on this thread want to give them a free ride.

isadore wrote: gosh a rooties we would not want to hurt Muslims feeling
when Sgt. Asan Akbar killing officers from 101St airborne, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad killing an army recruiter, or hasson on his killing spree. they stack up the bodies of soldier victims while so many on this thread want to give them a free ride.

He will get a free ride to the death chamber.

not if some of the folks on this thread are on the jury.

isadore wrote: not if some of the folks on this thread are on the jury.

Like who? I would say most like to see this freak die as soon as possible.

majorspark wrote:

isadore wrote: not if some of the folks on this thread are on the jury.

Like who? I would say most like to see this freak die as soon as possible.

while I realize your sympathy with their attitudes toward this Muslim terrorist massacre of American soldiers

we have DW crews rationalization of this Arab Muslim's slaughter of American soldiers as an example of "suicide by cop." Compleltely discounting the previous slaughters of American service people by American Muslims.
On this thread these murderers are discounted as just perversions of Islam. Perversion that happen again and again. Of course we have people like eers that blame the FBI, but ignore these repeated Muslim American slaugters of our service people, or Cleveland buck who ignore these earlier incidents and imply Hassan's atrocity was the first. Then we have Unique-67 go off on an anti Chrisitian diatribe while ignoring these repeated American Muslim killing of our soldiers. Most repugnant though is DW crew who repeatedly tries to excuse this Muslim mass murder as a suicide.

No excuse for what he did, no matter what side of the fence you sit on.

Eers, just so you are well informed. The FBI falls under the Executive Branch of the US Government. "Pawn" is an incorrect term. That implies that they are controlled without knowledge. Anyone who has studied constitutional law or understands basic chain of command knows that the FBI serves under the President, whomever that President is. Your lack of understanding in this area shows in your use of the term "pawn."

Saying the head football coach at Niles High School is a "pawn" for the stooges that run Niles is a more accurate use.

I don't mean this to sound as a personal attack. I have no idea who you are, so apologize if it comes off harsh. I just hear similar statements on CNN., Foxnews, etc., as well as from other people I know and it drives me crazy. If your boss tells you to do something, you do it. Does that meke you the "pawn" of your boss?

Falcons,

I disagree. I think it depends on one's perspective as well as use of term. For instance you yourself said the word "implies". Well, that would depend on who implied it and the implyer.
Also, I think it depends on if somebody is using it as the definition or in a loose term. The definition...

[size=xx-small]1. 1one of the chessmen of least value having the power to move only forward ordinarily one square at a time, to capture only diagonally forward, and to be promoted to any piece except a king upon reaching the eighth rank[/size]
2. 2one that can be used to further the purposes of another

http://www.referencecenter.com/ref/dictionary?invocationType=topsearchbox.refcentre&query=pawn

...can clearly be used as how eers uses it. And, I don't think it really matters if the pawn knows that it is a pawn.

isadore wrote: [
while I realize your sympathy with their attitudes toward this Muslim terrorist massacre of American soldiers

we have DW crews rationalization of this Arab Muslim's slaughter of American soldiers as an example of "suicide by cop." Compleltely discounting the previous slaughters of American service people by American Muslims.
On this thread these murderers are discounted as just perversions of Islam. Perversion that happen again and again. Of course we have people like eers that blame the FBI, but ignore these repeated Muslim American slaugters of our service people, or Cleveland buck who ignore these earlier incidents and imply Hassan's atrocity was the first. Then we have Unique-67 go off on an anti Chrisitian diatribe while ignoring these repeated American Muslim killing of our soldiers. Most repugnant though is DW crew who repeatedly tries to excuse this Muslim mass murder as a suicide.

So are you calling me a terrorist sympathizer? That is insulting to me as a veteran of the Iraqi war. I basically was saying I don't think he was apart of any terrorist network, he acted alone, for whatever his reasons were.

DWcrew wrote, "I believe this was a "suicide by cop" act."
That is the basis of an excuse. He wanted not to die,but to kill. He fires off over 100 shots, 13 dead, 29 wounded.
And then the army and the government moves to cover up his background.
To try to play down his contact alqueda recruiter who calls for the killing of American soldiers, hassan's contacts in Pakistan, his frequently expressed sympathy for killers of American soldiers.
This is not a suicide by cop but a terrorist attack on our troops, no matter how you try to excuse it.
Oh what happened to your original statement?

isadore wrote: DWcrew wrote, "I believe this was a "suicide by cop" act."
That is the basis of an excuse. He wanted not to die,but to kill. He fires off over 100 shots, 13 dead, 29 wounded.
And then the army and the government moves to cover up his background.
To try to play down his contact alqueda recruiter who calls for the killing of American soldiers, hassan's contacts in Pakistan, his frequently expressed sympathy for killers of American soldiers.
This is not a suicide by cop but a terrorist attack on our troops, no matter how you try to excuse it.
Oh what happened to your original statement?

Again, I am not excusing anything. I think it is a combo of the two. I think he wanted to kill as many people as he could while being killed in the process. However, when you group him with all other muslims, that is wrong. Not all muslims act or think the way this man does/did, just like any other religious group.

Your line of thinking is exactly how the radicals of Islam think. They think of all Americans the same way.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth like people did on JJ. Not worth my time. Believe what you will, I will believe what I believe.

gosh I was unaware I made any statement that said all Muslims acted this way. All Muslims nor even most do not act this way. BUT obviously some, not just one, do. And we should be aware of it. Muslim soldier threw grenades into the tents of other soldiers killing them. That a muslim did a drive by killing of an army recruiter. that 6 muslims were plotting to attack Fort Dix and kill as many soldiers as they could. That hassan with his ties to alqueda slaughtered 12 service people and a civilian at Fort Hood. The threat to the lives of our servicepeople is not coming from Seventh Day Adventists or the Amish. We should not be so quick to dismiss the ties of some American Muslims to radical Islam and al queda.

Somehow I agree with Isadore on this. I think it was terrorism, as the guy had ties to terrorist organizations and should have been dealt with earlier.

Falcons53 wrote: No excuse for what he did, no matter what side of the fence you sit on.

Eers, just so you are well informed. The FBI falls under the Executive Branch of the US Government. "Pawn" is an incorrect term. That implies that they are controlled without knowledge. Anyone who has studied constitutional law or understands basic chain of command knows that the FBI serves under the President, whomever that President is. Your lack of understanding in this area shows in your use of the term "pawn."

You corrected me on something I never said. I never once said that the FBI head doesn't serve under the current President. So my use of the term pawn is completely correct. See the CIA and the lead up to the Iraq War.

You don't need to be part of a cell or connected with anyone else to be a terrorist.

This was an act of terrorism by a man who was answering the call of his religion.

His act is not an aberration in the sense that it has happened too frequently by extremist members of this same religion.

At what point do we start calling a spade a spade again in this country?

Writerbuckeye wrote: You don't need to be part of a cell or connected with anyone else to be a terrorist.

This was an act of terrorism by a man who was answering the call of his religion.

His act is not an aberration in the sense that it has happened too frequently by extremist members of this same religion.

At what point do we start calling a spade a spade again in this country?

Crazies are crazies. I don't care what religion they are from.

Americans kill each other more than 16,000 times a year. When are we going to start calling a spade a spade?

Catholics, Jews, Methodists, Presbyterians, Nazarenes, Jehovah's Witnesses are not killing not purposely chosing to killing American servicepeople to aid their co-religionists. some Muslim Americans are.

eersandbeers wrote:

Writerbuckeye wrote: You don't need to be part of a cell or connected with anyone else to be a terrorist.

This was an act of terrorism by a man who was answering the call of his religion.

His act is not an aberration in the sense that it has happened too frequently by extremist members of this same religion.

At what point do we start calling a spade a spade again in this country?

Crazies are crazies. I don't care what religion they are from.

Americans kill each other more than 16,000 times a year. When are we going to start calling a spade a spade?

That's a psychobabble copout. Evidence is mounting that this man clearly felt the call of Allah and was acting accordingly. We've become a bunch of PC wussies in this country and afraid to confront evil even when its face is clearly in front of us.

Writer,

Would you say the same thing about Scott Roeder, the individual who killed George Tiller at a church? Roeder felt the "call of God" to lead him to commit a heinous act, and what Roeder did terrorised everybody who was at the church at that time, along with the friends and family members of Dr. Tiller.

Roeder was acting on his own warped view of Christianity, but he also had ties to extremists groups and to people within Christianity who are every bit as radical as those on the radical fringe of Islam. And, to some of those individuals, Scott Roeder is a hero for the actions he committed.
Whether one agrees with late term abortions or not, the fact remains that George Tiller was a law abiding citizen, and he was murdered in cold blood by Roeder at a church. That doesn't seem like a very "pro-life" thing to do, nor is it in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

Timothy McVeigh, who committed the worst act of terrorism in US History committed by a citizen of this country, had ties to the Christian Identity movement. He was also an ex-member of the US military. These are just 2 examples of people that associated with radical fringe movements within Christianity in this country and carried out horrendous acts. But, I believe it would be 100% wrong to make an argument that ALL people who consider themselves "Christians" ought to be tracked by the US Government, not do I believe in anyway that the vast majority of "Christians" in this country support the actions of these individuals.

Hasan committed a heinous crime, he may well have felt the call of HIS God, but that in no way means he was acting according to the true teachings of Islam and/or the Koran. Why is this so hard for some people in this country to understand?

isadore,

To claim that if I was on a jury I would not convict Hasan of the crimes he committed is ludicrous. I have never once defended the actions of Hasan. Instead, I have spoken out against the view many people have in this country that Hasan acted in a manner that is keeping with the true teachings of Islam.

Hasan may well have been doing what he believed HIS god wished him to do, but that in no way means he was following the true teachings of Islam. And, my pointing this out in no way means that I condone the actions of Hasan, or that I do not want to see him prosecuted to the full extent of the law for the horrendous crimes he committed.

unique_67 wrote: Writer,

Would you say the same thing about Scott Roeder, the individual who killed George Tiller at a church? Roeder felt the "call of God" to lead him to commit a heinous act, and what Roeder did terrorised everybody who was at the church at that time, along with the friends and family members of Dr. Tiller.

Roeder was acting on his own warped view of Christianity, but he also had ties to extremists groups and to people within Christianity who are every bit as radical as those on the radical fringe of Islam. And, to some of those individuals, Scott Roeder is a hero for the actions he committed.
Whether one agrees with late term abortions or not, the fact remains that George Tiller was a law abiding citizen, and he was murdered in cold blood by Roeder at a church. That doesn't seem like a very "pro-life" thing to do, nor is it in keeping with the teachings of Christ.

Timothy McVeigh, who committed the worst act of terrorism in US History committed by a citizen of this country, had ties to the Christian Identity movement. He was also an ex-member of the US military. These are just 2 examples of people that associated with radical fringe movements within Christianity in this country and carried out horrendous acts. But, I believe it would be 100% wrong to make an argument that ALL people who consider themselves "Christians" ought to be tracked by the US Government, not do I believe in anyway that the vast majority of "Christians" in this country support the actions of these individuals.

Hasan committed a heinous crime, he may well have felt the call of HIS God, but that in no way means he was acting according to the true teachings of Islam and/or the Koran. Why is this so hard for some people in this country to understand?

It's hard to understand because there's so much of it going on out in the world and here at home.

The two events you described were very RARE in comparison to the amount of terrorism going on in the world as it relates to Islam.

There simply is NO comparison.

There aren't Christian sects out in the world bombing marketplaces and using suicide bombers to annhiliate women and children. There's only ONE religion that's doing this right now, and it's being done with the quiet consent of the majority (either because they agree with it or because they fear others who do).

writerbuckeye,

I believe that what the Israeli Government is doing to the Palestinians is terrorism, and is being done in the name of Judaism. And, it is being done with the full consent of the United States, and also with the support of many Christians in this country.

It also could be argued that the USA uses it's own military in fighting a "holy war" against Islam, and the reality is that none of the predominantly Muslim countries against whom the US and Israel wage war has militaries powerful enough to defeat the US or Israel. So, rogue groups of individuals take it upon themselves to fight against the USA and Israel, and they weapons and tactics they use are crude and quite violent.

There have been tens of thousands, possibly even hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT civilians killed by the US and Israeli military's, but in this country we call the individuals killed or severely injured due to the actions of the US military "collateral damage" and say it is unfortunate. As long as the United States is using it's military to kill large numbers of innocent civilians in predominantly Muslim countries, and also supporting the government of Israel, then fringe elements within Islam and individual Muslims will take it upon themselves to conduct acts of "terrorism" on the US and it's allies.

It is factually incorret to say that there are not acts of terrorism being committed by "Christians" throughout the world.

Christian terrorism in India, Uganda and Indonesia
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1194586172


Christian Terrorism in Northeast India
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_terrorism_in_northeast_india.htm

..."Here on this page you will find several reports and news items on the shocking amount of terrorism caused by the Christian militant groups in Northeast India, how they operate, where they get their funds, and the thousands of people who have already died because of it. It is primarily due to those who want to make the whole region into a separate Christian state at the expense of those who would prefer to follow their own indigenous and Hindu cultures."....

Christian Terrorism
http://www.muslim-responses.com/christian_terrorism_
On this page we Shall document terrorism that has been carried out by Christians in the past, and present. While documenting Christian terrorism we shall also examine Christian double-standards that they often use.

unique_67 wrote: writerbuckeye,

I believe that what the Israeli Government is doing to the Palestinians is terrorism, and is being done in the name of Judaism. And, it is being done with the full consent of the United States, and also with the support of many Christians in this country.

It also could be argued that the USA uses it's own military in fighting a "holy war" against Islam, and the reality is that none of the predominantly Muslim countries against whom the US and Israel wage war has militaries powerful enough to defeat the US or Israel. So, rogue groups of individuals take it upon themselves to fight against the USA and Israel, and they weapons and tactics they use are crude and quite violent.

There have been tens of thousands, possibly even hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT civilians killed by the US and Israeli military's, but in this country we call the individuals killed or severely injured due to the actions of the US military "collateral damage" and say it is unfortunate. As long as the United States is using it's military to kill large numbers of innocent civilians in predominantly Muslim countries, and also supporting the government of Israel, then fringe elements within Islam and individual Muslims will take it upon themselves to conduct acts of "terrorism" on the US and it's allies.

You suffer from logic failure.

I'm not going to debate Israel/Palestine with you because it's obvious we'll not agree. Suffice to say that NO Israelis are setting off bombs in strictly civilian areas to kill folks the way suicide bombers have plagued Israel for a long time. Israel is also not throwing bombs regularly into any areas of Palestine the way Hamas has done.

As for the stuff about the US and Muslim countries...I'm sure civilians are getting killed as part of the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and I'm also certain the numbers are not as high as you believe they are, and I know the US is not deliberately targeting civilians but, in fact, is going out of its way NOT to target them.

However, your logic fails in that the US was being targeted by Islamic radicals long before we went into either of those countries. The attacks on the Marine barracks in Lebanon comes to mind, as does the USS Cole, the African embassies and the two attacks on the World Trade Centers.

What countries were we waging war in at the time all those acts of terrorism were done?

Now I'll sit back and wait for some homily about how we've desecrated Holy lands with military bases or some such nonsense that will somehow, in your mind, justify acts of terror against civilians in the US and abroad.

So, because my viewpoint/opinion is different from yours, that means I suffer from "logic failure".

Interesting. :huh: :huh: