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BROWNS VS CHIEFS

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BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Dec 20, 2009 4:29 PM
WTG Browns!

That was some serious "recordage" set today!
Dec 20, 2009 4:29pm
Mr. 300's avatar

Mr. 300

Senior Member

3,090 posts
Dec 20, 2009 4:32 PM
Kudos to the O-line today. This team still sucks, but the did play with a style we haven't seen since Mack/Byner. 3rd most ever in the history of the NFL???? By Jerome Harrison???? Of the 2009 Cleveland Browns??? Wow
Dec 20, 2009 4:32pm
ZWICK 4 PREZ's avatar

ZWICK 4 PREZ

Senior Member

7,733 posts
Dec 20, 2009 4:33 PM
Mangini has some splainin to do as to why Lewis wasn't regulated to a backup role this year.
Dec 20, 2009 4:33pm
B

burt07

Senior Member

600 posts
Dec 20, 2009 4:36 PM
New name for the Browns, the Cleveland Priuses. Just sneakin up on teams.
Dec 20, 2009 4:36pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Dec 20, 2009 5:17 PM
^^^I like it!
Dec 20, 2009 5:17pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 20, 2009 5:18 PM
ZWICK 4 PREZ wrote: Mangini has some splainin to do as to why Lewis wasn't regulated to a backup role this year.
How about Romeo? He let him rot on the bench for 3 years.

Why is it the Cleveland fans knew this guy would be a very good running back but two coaches had their heads squarely up their asses?

I honestly think coaches get so wrapped up in the minutia of game prep that if they don't see perfection in practice, they default to a veteran -- even when someone else produces in games (like Harrison) and the veteran is old, broken down, slow and hurt (like Lewis was).

Both coaches were IDIOTS for sitting him all this time.

Yes, I know KC isn't a very good defense at all. But bad backs do not put up nearly 300 yards against an NFL defense without having pretty good talent.

If the next year is uncapped, then the Browns will have the final say on keeping Harrison (unrestricted free agent) and can match.

I believe that a stable of Harrison, Jennings, Davis and Cribbs can win in the NFL if they bolster the right side of the offensive line.

That would save another draft choice to be used on OL or to get help for the defensive backfield (which is a disaster).
Dec 20, 2009 5:18pm
royal_k's avatar

royal_k

Senior Member

4,423 posts
Dec 20, 2009 5:29 PM
I know the right side of the OL is a mess, but a lot of runs were to that side today. It may be a coincidence, but St. Claire left the game early today and didn't return.
Dec 20, 2009 5:29pm
H

hrspeedmerchant

Senior Member

165 posts
Dec 20, 2009 5:35 PM
Nice victory and it is great to see a rushing attack. That said, it is appearing more and more that Brady Quinn isn't the answer at quarterback.
Dec 20, 2009 5:35pm
shook_17's avatar

shook_17

Senior Member

3,023 posts
Dec 20, 2009 5:53 PM
hrspeedmerchant wrote: Nice victory and it is great to see a rushing attack. That said, it is appearing more and more that Brady Quinn isn't the answer at quarterback.
how can you say he isn't the quarterback? because he was 10-17 with 66 yards and 2 ints? big deal he had a bad game. we WON the game. thats all that matters he managed it. when it came down to it in the fourth quarter he was making plays for us to win the game. and quinn threw 10 times in the first half! and only 7 in the second half. a quarterback can not get into sync when only throwing about 4 throws a quarter! before today he had the longest streak in the NFL without throwing an INT at 151 pass attempts. you see him change the play at the line. anderson couldn't do. im not saying quinn is the savior for sure, he still has a lot to prove, but he will work for next year. get more talent around him and see where he goes from there.

what i don't get is evan moore, the kid has hands. but he had one ball thrown to him all game and he caught it! but we still use royal and gaines. come on manpenis get your head out of your ass and play moore more! quinn loves to throw to the tight end.
Dec 20, 2009 5:53pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 20, 2009 6:10 PM
hrspeedmerchant wrote: Nice victory and it is great to see a rushing attack. That said, it is appearing more and more that Brady Quinn isn't the answer at quarterback.
Wrong. We don't know that yet and you certainly can't judge it by his passing stats.

It will come out this week, I bet, that Quinn made good call after good call in the no huddle that aligned the running plays to take advantage of the defense -- and Harrison responded with a record day.

You can't underestimate how important those calls at the line of scrimmage are, and Quinn apparently had a magnificent day making them.

Yes, his passing needs to improve; but with the running game being so effective, there was no need to keep passing to try and develop some rhythm.

I'll also add that our receivers did NOTHING to help out by putting themselves in position to either catch the ball or defend it. That was especially true on the play Mo Mass whiffed on down the sideline.

Give Quinn some more experienced wide receivers and I'm betting you see better production.
Dec 20, 2009 6:10pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Dec 20, 2009 6:31 PM
^ You could say that about any QB in the NFL. It's a total cop out.

Kansas City has horrible receivers too, and a bad offensive line. They dropped 8 or 9 passes today, and Cassel still put up 330 yards and a 99.1 QB rating.

I'm not going to be so quick to jump on the Jerome Harrison bandwagon. I think he should get more playing time than he has in the past, but the guy was only averaging 3.4 yards per rush heading into today. That's one of the worst averages in the NFL. He had 47 yards on 19 carries the previous 3 weeks. The reason he wasn't getting more playing time was because he wasn't showing anything when he did play.

Same way I didn't buy into Brady torching a terrible Detroit secondary I'm not putting too much stock into Harrison manhandling a piss poor Chiefs rushing D. I think he's a solid change of pace guy and a pretty good 3rd down back, but not much more.
Dec 20, 2009 6:31pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 20, 2009 6:39 PM
LOL at you saying it can be said about any QB in the NFL.

No, you can't.

Fact of the matter is WE DON'T KNOW if Quinn will be a decent NFL QB. He hasn't even had a full season of starts for us to begin to judge. He's also never had the luxury of working with ANY playmakers around him on the offense.

I'd really like to see more before I start passing judgment so fast.

As for Harrison...once again, how can you judge his body of work when it's been so sparse? Running backs also need actual playing time to develop. Harrison has not had much, spending most of his time behind a guy who was broken down, slow and tap danced through the line the past two years. It seems everyone saw it except our own head coaches.

Finally, if your correct about KC, why haven't we seen similar rushing performances by Tomlinson and others when they faced the chiefs? Do I know they're one of the worst defenses in the NFL? Yep. But they have still managed to stop most backs with far, far less yardage than Harrison accumulated today.
Dec 20, 2009 6:39pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Dec 20, 2009 6:48 PM
^ Because Tomlinson is as old and broken down as Lewis. He's only averaging 3.2 yards per carry and it's obvious that he doesn't have much left in the tank. Terrible example. Kansas City is absolutely one of the 2 or 3 worst rush defenses in the NFL.

The "full year of snaps" is such a bad excuse. He hasn't had a full year of snaps because he couldn't beat out Derek freaking Anderson (very telling right there), and when he did, he (TWICE!) managed to lose the job right back. The guy has shown 0 improvement in almost 3 years now. How long will be long enough for you to judge?

And why can't you say that any QB would put up better stats with better and more experienced receivers? Because YOU say so?

Sorry, it's just common logic. I could say "You know if the Browns had some more playmakers the defense wouldn't give up so many yards." It's a completely obvious statement and a weak argument in defense of someones poor play.
Dec 20, 2009 6:48pm
royal_k's avatar

royal_k

Senior Member

4,423 posts
Dec 20, 2009 7:18 PM
Sorry Mulva...I have to agree we havn't seen enough of either of these 2 players to judge them. If you look at most good QBs in the NFL, none of them had success in their 1st full season. Hell Manning won 1 game his 1st year. And there is something to say about the players around him. If you give him Moss and Welker or Bolden and Fitzgerrald he has a much better chance to succeed. He has no playmakers and definately no number 1 reciever to throw to. Plus a bad right side of the OL, and a running game that has been non existant most of the year.
As far as Harrison goes, he didn't see more playing time early in the year because of his blocking ability, not because of his running ability. You say he only averaged 3.4 yards per carry before today. How many RBs have good averages when they get 5 carries a game. He didn't see the field enough to get any rythem. I'll wait on my judgements on both of these guys.
Dec 20, 2009 7:18pm
T

The Kaptain

Junior Member

6 posts
Dec 20, 2009 7:56 PM
Quinn sucks. the Browns won despite him. I was thrilled with the o-line play and I'd say a lot of it had to do with St. Clair not being on the field. I hope we can get Harrison re-signed and we HAVE to give Cribbs his due. Hopefully Holmgren will see this if he is indeed brought in.
Dec 20, 2009 7:56pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Dec 20, 2009 8:53 PM
I have heard it all now. Brady Quinn was responsible for Harrison having a big day running the ball.
LMAO!!!
Dec 20, 2009 8:53pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Dec 20, 2009 9:00 PM
Not sticking up for Quinn at all, because I am not a fan, but since the bye week he was had a 84 QB rating....according to the radio announcers. That is not that shabby.
Dec 20, 2009 9:00pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 20, 2009 9:25 PM
Skyhook79 wrote: I have heard it all now. Brady Quinn was responsible for Harrison having a big day running the ball.
LMAO!!!
Way to totally fuck up what I wrote.

But hey, enjoy yourself.
Dec 20, 2009 9:25pm
royal_k's avatar

royal_k

Senior Member

4,423 posts
Dec 20, 2009 9:33 PM
Writerbuckeye wrote:
Skyhook79 wrote: I have heard it all now. Brady Quinn was responsible for Harrison having a big day running the ball.
LMAO!!!
Way to totally fuck up what I wrote.

But hey, enjoy yourself.
Consider the source.....
Dec 20, 2009 9:33pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Dec 20, 2009 10:10 PM
wes_mantooth wrote: Not sticking up for Quinn at all, because I am not a fan, but since the bye week he was had a 84 QB rating....according to the radio announcers. That is not that shabby.
If true (which I'm not sure how those numbers add up), a 133.1 rating against the j.v. caliber Lions is the reason.

Since the bye he's had 4 horrible games...

23.5 against Baltimore
27.7 today
48.1 against Pittsburgh
51.3 against the Bengals

1 very good one...

95.7 against the Chargers,

And then the Lions.

If it was D.A. people would be all over him. He has 4 horrible games for every good one! The receivers drop passes because he throws an uncatchable ball!

But since it's Brady it's "At least he isn't turning the ball over" (which doesn't do any good when you aren't completing any passes to your own team either), "It's too early to judge", "He has no receivers to throw to", and "the right side of the line is terrible!"

By the way, Anderson has been on the Browns 1 season longer than Quinn. In his first full season as starter he reached the pro bowl. Is it too early to judge him? After all, this season shouldn't count against him given the lack of talent he was playing with.

Yes, that was sarcasm. Sometimes you don't need to see a guy play for 5 seasons to know what you have. Why people can't accept that about Quinn I still don't get. But it is a total double standard.
Dec 20, 2009 10:10pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 21, 2009 12:28 AM
There's nothing to "get".

DA would have lost that game today. He isn't smart enough to run a no huddle offense, and that was very effective against the chiefs. Also, Quinn's athleticism resulted in two big plays, including a huge play on the game winning drive.

DA had a terrific HALF of one season. Other than that, he's pretty much stunk up all but a handful of games he's started. In too many of them, he was a turnover machine.

Do I think Quinn is the answer?

Nope.

But I also don't believe he's had a fair shake yet.

DA at least had the luxury of playing with two all-pro caliber (in theory, anyway) talents in Winslow and Edwards long enough to develop some chemistry.

Quinn didn't have either of them for more than a handful of games, and now he's playing with a wide receiver "corps" that includes basically three rookies.

Again, I'm not wedded to keeping Quinn. I don't think most Browns fans are. But we would like to see him be given a chance to develop some rapport with his receivers for more than one season before we make a judgment.

I hope Cleveland goes out and signs a veteran QB this off season to provide some insurance if Quinn fails to progress -- and then either trade or draft a QB later in this draft or next year higher (depending on who's available and when).

But there's nobody in this year's draft class I am that excited about taking a chance on with a top 5 pick.
Dec 21, 2009 12:28am
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Dec 21, 2009 12:43 AM
^ I agree with that last part. I definitely don't want to draft a QB in the 1st round. I'm convinced that Quinn isn't a franchise QB, but he isn't the biggest hole that needs to be filled either in my opinion. I'm not really sold on most of the QBs in this draft anyways.

But it is a position I would try to address through a trade or free agency.

It isn't the fact that he hasn't proven himself. It's the fact that he hasn't progressed AT ALL in my eyes. He still checks down all the time and every deep ball he throws still has a better chance of being caught by the defense than the Browns. In 3 years I would think even someone who hasn't had all that much playing time would show SOME improvement.
Dec 21, 2009 12:43am
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Dec 21, 2009 12:47 AM
Mulva wrote:
wes_mantooth wrote: Not sticking up for Quinn at all, because I am not a fan, but since the bye week he was had a 84 QB rating....according to the radio announcers. That is not that shabby.
If true (which I'm not sure how those numbers add up), a 133.1 rating against the j.v. caliber Lions is the reason.

Since the bye he's had 4 horrible games...

23.5 against Baltimore
27.7 today
48.1 against Pittsburgh
51.3 against the Bengals

1 very good one...

95.7 against the Chargers,

And then the Lions.

If it was D.A. people would be all over him. He has 4 horrible games for every good one! The receivers drop passes because he throws an uncatchable ball!

But since it's Brady it's "At least he isn't turning the ball over" (which doesn't do any good when you aren't completing any passes to your own team either), "It's too early to judge", "He has no receivers to throw to", and "the right side of the line is terrible!"

By the way, Anderson has been on the Browns 1 season longer than Quinn. In his first full season as starter he reached the pro bowl. Is it too early to judge him? After all, this season shouldn't count against him given the lack of talent he was playing with.

Yes, that was sarcasm. Sometimes you don't need to see a guy play for 5 seasons to know what you have. Why people can't accept that about Quinn I still don't get. But it is a total double standard.
Derek Anderson is a horseshit quarterback. He had no business being selected as the 3rd string quarterback on that pro bowl team. He fuckin ranked 18th for chrissakes that year.

And the idiot Savage could have traded that pile of dung for some serious draft choices...but no...he signed the 18th ranked q'back to a mega million dollar deal.
Dec 21, 2009 12:47am
G

Gobuckeyes1

Senior Member

497 posts
Dec 21, 2009 7:59 AM
Quinn has played well enough to make me want to stay with him next year while we draft for other needs. If Harrison can put up a couple more good games to end the season we can also draft in other places than RB.

I would be happy in the entire draft was spent on defense and O-line. Get a solid veteran WR in free agency, maybe...
Dec 21, 2009 7:59am
H

hrspeedmerchant

Senior Member

165 posts
Dec 21, 2009 9:07 AM
I hope I'm mistaken, but I've seen enough of Quinn to believe he's not the long term answer at quarterback. Still, he's certainly an improvement over Anderson so let's see how the final games of the season unfold.

Perhaps he'll prove me wrong - and I hope he does.
Dec 21, 2009 9:07am