Ohio Chatter
Ohio Chatter

Forums

All Threads Serious Business Sports Politics Archive Pick 'ems
Log In Create Account

referees being more active in matches

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ referees being more active in matches
O

Ohio wrestler

Junior Member

20 posts
Jan 10, 2012 9:36 AM
are referees becoming more active in the physical part of the sport?
Jan 10, 2012 9:36am
hasbeen's avatar

hasbeen

Excuse me, Flo?

6,504 posts
Jan 10, 2012 9:51 AM
Care to elaborate?
Jan 10, 2012 9:51am
O

Ohio wrestler

Junior Member

20 posts
Jan 10, 2012 11:38 AM
pnhasbeen;1046741 wrote:Care to elaborate?
It seems that the "potentially dangerous" call has been called alot quicker, and referees are more hesitant to call pins. In a recent match I saw, a simple half was thrown and before the wrestler started to run around the head it was stopped because, and I quote "he was using unnecesary force." Not sure if its because of injuries or if they are just tired of getting argued with.
Jan 10, 2012 11:38am
T

Tony Mead

Senior Member

323 posts
Jan 10, 2012 11:54 AM
I am seeing that half nelson call more often and it is total b.s. Its part of the sport. Turn or don't your choice :D
Jan 10, 2012 11:54am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Jan 10, 2012 11:55 AM
I haven't seen a difference overall. Maybe an official here or there has become more conservative in his style or interpretation but I certainly haven't seen any more across the board cautiousness as it relates to potentially dangerous.

What's the difference between voting no and I don't see a difference?
Jan 10, 2012 11:55am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 10, 2012 12:06 PM
IMO as an official we are in a tough spot. With our society an official cannot allow a wrestler to become injured if it could have been prevented as being sued by Johnny's parents is a real issue! With that said I don't think it is any different now except for some of the rule changes (which must be enforced liked or not) gives the appearance that the official is more involved than in the past.
Jan 10, 2012 12:06pm
4

41414141

Junior Member

7 posts
Jan 10, 2012 12:29 PM
i constantly see the power half stopped for potentially dangerous when the arm and shoulder are not in danger as per rule but because a wrestler yell out: .I would like to see the power half ruled illegal or if matched stopped because a kid yells out that points be awarded.Imo 5 points or treated as a tech fall.
Jan 10, 2012 12:29pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 10, 2012 12:52 PM
41414141;1046944 wrote:i constantly see the power half stopped for potentially dangerous when the arm and shoulder are not in danger as per rule but because a wrestler yell out: .I would like to see the power half ruled illegal or if matched stopped because a kid yells out that points be awarded.Imo 5 points or treated as a tech fall.
It's judgment, if in the ref's judgment it is a danger it must be stopped. As per rule? Show me the rule that states where running a half or power half and how the shoulder is does or does not become potentially dangerous, it doesn't exist! It is all judgment. Will it differ from ref to ref? Coach to coach? Parent to parent? You bet!
Jan 10, 2012 12:52pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Jan 10, 2012 1:58 PM
I don't see a differrence. Most of them are as bad as they've always been.
Jan 10, 2012 1:58pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 10, 2012 2:04 PM
Bitterrunner-up;1047055 wrote:I don't see a differrence. Most of them are as bad as they've always been.
Well good we are consistent :)
Jan 10, 2012 2:04pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Jan 10, 2012 2:23 PM
Fab...In reading your posts over the years, I've come to the conclusion that you must be an good offical, a rare feat indeed. You're posts are well thought out and reasonable. Even when I disagree, I at least see where you're coiming from...and most importantly, you can bring the funny. Sense of humor is a vastly underrated quality in officials.
Jan 10, 2012 2:23pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Jan 10, 2012 2:33 PM
Bitterrunner-up;1047078 wrote:Fab...In reading your posts over the years, I've come to the conclusion that you must be an good offical, a rare feat indeed. You're posts are well thought out and reasonable. Even when I disagree, I at least see where you're coiming from...and most importantly, you can bring the funny. Sense of humor is a vastly underrated quality in officials.
Agreed!

On another note, I have come across some very funny officials. Funny is exactly how I would describe their officiating. :)
Jan 10, 2012 2:33pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Jan 10, 2012 2:42 PM
My favorite are on the youth level when 30 seconds after a potentially dangerous move is called it is changed to an illegal hold just because the other coach complained ;).
Jan 10, 2012 2:42pm
said_aouita's avatar

said_aouita

Banned

8,532 posts
Jan 10, 2012 2:47 PM
41414141;1046944 wrote:i constantly see the power half stopped for potentially dangerous when the arm and shoulder are not in danger as per rule but because a wrestler yell out: .I would like to see the power half ruled illegal or if matched stopped because a kid yells out that points be awarded.Imo 5 points or treated as a tech fall.
Amen.
Jan 10, 2012 2:47pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 10, 2012 3:10 PM
Well thanks, I have been involved in the sport for a long time. I love officiating and I am very passionate about it. I have done multiple FL HS State Championships, NHSCA Senior Nationals, as well as other various national level tournaments as well.

One thing that I really wish people would take the time to do is to sit down and actually read a rule book. Even when I read it over and over something sparks just about everytime, like oh yeah, or wait when did that change, etc...Our sport is filled with judgement calls, no way around it either. All refs will not be the same but we strive to be consistent! Also when it comes to potentially dangerous, like I said in todays world it may be something that is called a bit more than it used to be back in our competition days. The fear of being sued is very real, no one wants to see anyone get hurt on the mat and the official should be erroring on the side of safety everytime! Now I am still under the old addage that it is a tough sport, however the world is a much different place! All I can say is if a ref does call a potentially dangerous, there is nothing that can be done about it. Pick your battles! No sense in arguing an PD call at any time, the hold has been stopped it isn't going to change anything. Do you have to agree with it? By no means!
Jan 10, 2012 3:10pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 10, 2012 3:39 PM
said_aouita;1047104 wrote:Amen.
Said Aouita you say amen however he references per rule that doesn't exist?
Jan 10, 2012 3:39pm
4

41414141

Junior Member

7 posts
Jan 10, 2012 4:05 PM
ok then theres no rule for potentially dangerous(judgement call by ref correct)? then if the arm or shoulder is not going to be broke/ dislocated and you feel the need to stop it because your going to be prosecuted then award near fall dont stop a LEGAL move that could very possibly win match.Oowwwwwwwww! STOP IT> or else make illegal.
Jan 10, 2012 4:05pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 10, 2012 4:08 PM
41414141;1047162 wrote:ok then theres no rule for potentially dangerous(judgement call by ref correct)? then if the arm or shoulder is not going to be broke/ dislocated and you feel the need to stop it because your going to be prosecuted then award near fall dont stop a LEGAL move that could very possibly win match.Oowwwwwwwww! STOP IT> or else make illegal.
Look you are really over thinking this. I am not saying that refs always stop it because of that fear. I am saying though that it is a different world and time we live in. It isn't what it used to be! As of right now it is strictly a judgement call, there are situations in the rule book that are labeled potentially dangerous situations, example all headlocks are considered potentially dagerous situations but that doesn't mean the hold or the match must be stopped, only in the refs judgement if they think there is! We could argue this until blue in the face and nothing will come out of it. If the ref thinks there is danger they will and must stop it, that is all that can be said even if you don't agree at the time. Also just because a hold is legal by definition doesn't mean it is safe at that time. Each situation is different, something may have shifted, the body is tourqued wrong, etc....and right now it is up to the ref to make the decision to allow the hold to continue or to be stopped.

One thing I do as a ref though when a wrestler is running a half, bar arm, wing, etc....is constantly verbalizing to keep it legal, watch it, etc....so they know whether or not the hold is still safe or if I am close to stopping it and I will give them a chance to adjust unless it has become illegal or just too much I must stop.
Jan 10, 2012 4:08pm
B

booboo

Senior Member

144 posts
Jan 10, 2012 5:34 PM
"One thing that I really wish people would take the time to do is to sit down and actually read a rule book." This would be a great place to start, wouldn't it? Keeping up with annual changes would also be a good idea. The rules interpretation meetings are not hard to get to, especially with the on-line alternative.
Jan 10, 2012 5:34pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Jan 11, 2012 7:33 AM
41414141;1047162 wrote:ok then theres no rule for potentially dangerous(judgement call by ref correct)? then if the arm or shoulder is not going to be broke/ dislocated and you feel the need to stop it because your going to be prosecuted then award near fall dont stop a LEGAL move that could very possibly win match.Oowwwwwwwww! STOP IT> or else make illegal.
You can't award NF points if a NF didn't exist.
Jan 11, 2012 7:33am
4

41414141

Junior Member

7 posts
Jan 11, 2012 10:48 AM
I realize this puts officials in a difficult situation on when to stop or not to stop power half/arm bar and i dont need to read a rule book to explain its a judgement call. Which anytime anyone on any thread questions officiating someone spouts "read the rule book" No s '' t yet the rule book isnt always followed.Wrestling officiating is not some complex algarythym its a warriors sport lets not footballfy it.IMO if your going to stop matches when a power half/arm bar is being run then make move illegal or instead of telling them to keep it legal tell wrestler give it up. LOL.
Jan 11, 2012 10:48am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 11, 2012 11:38 AM
41414141;1048116 wrote:I realize this puts officials in a difficult situation on when to stop or not to stop power half/arm bar and i dont need to read a rule book to explain its a judgement call. Which anytime anyone on any thread questions officiating someone spouts "read the rule book" No s '' t yet the rule book isnt always followed.Wrestling officiating is not some complex algarythym its a warriors sport lets not footballfy it.IMO if your going to stop matches when a power half/arm bar is being run then make move illegal or instead of telling them to keep it legal tell wrestler give it up. LOL.

Well you said per the rule earlier so I will point to the rule book to show you that isn't a rule so it would help if you understood what the rule concerning potentially dangerous is.
Jan 11, 2012 11:38am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Jan 11, 2012 11:55 AM
I know wrestling isn't as "brutal" as BJJ, but at times I agree with those that say that the kid on bottom should give up the back if it starts to hurt that much. In BJJ moves like a kimura and omoplata are only submissions if the guy "stuck" doesn't roll out and lose position. The guy getting the half put on them should have to roll to his back, or like someone said above, if he refuses and it will cause an injury, give the PD but cause it to be 2 NF pts because it was the bottom guys "fault" for not giving up the position anyway.

I know arm bars have to be watched for location of where the guy on top is pushing the shoulder, but a half nelson is more based on the bottom guys willingness to be turned, not typically the top guys application.

The one exception I can see is when the guy on top starts with a power half and ends up putting the bottom guys own hand/wrist behind his head as part of the power half.
Jan 11, 2012 11:55am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Jan 11, 2012 12:05 PM
They are not going to change the rule on stopping a match for PD and in turn awarding near fall if it didn't occur. They already award near fall when imminent if the defensive wrestler is bleeding or injured or while on back an extra nf point is awarded. It is what it is guys. I wont say I like it but as an official if I feel there is danger then the whistle blows and that is it.
Jan 11, 2012 12:05pm
B

born_to_wrestle

Member

41 posts
Jan 12, 2012 6:31 AM
A wise ref once told it to me like this........a fan, parent, or coach watch the match with their heart first then their eyes, while an official watches with his eyes only. In regards to PD on the half, it only becomes potentially dangerous when the top man does not know how to properly sink it. Tops forearm should be deep into bottoms arm pit. When tops arm comes out towards bottoms elbow, the force placed on the shoulder joint is to great and can lead to labrum or rotator cuff tears. As an official it is our job to protect your children, I am sure the ones complaining have kids that are never on bottom and never being turned.
Jan 12, 2012 6:31am