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2011 Cleveland Cavalier Offseason/Draft

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Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

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23,151 posts
Jun 3, 2011 8:13 AM
BR1986FB;789710 wrote:I stopped reading when Dynasty started posting because I knew he'd be spewing his stupid nonsense. :rolleyes:

Agreed, I can now add Robj to that list as well. I've haven't seen a poster suck up to another this much since Coyotes. Fairly obv to me that they know each other outside of OC.
Jun 3, 2011 8:13am
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Jun 3, 2011 11:04 AM
thedynasty1998;789717 wrote: And I think Stern had to say that and probably disagreed more so with the TV skeptical.

lol at this. Such a pussy cop out response. You can say that about anybody that is quoted with their opinion.

See:
thedynasty1998;789720 wrote:Michael Wilbon would agree with me:

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=6607347

I think Wilbon had to say that, he had to play devils advocate since everyone else was so skeptical.

(See how that works? This is why everyone cringes whenever you post. All you do is spew bullshit.)

Also, Wilbon has nothing to do with what was being discussed. The discussion was about how the NBA COMMISSIONER felt about how 3 stars got together on one team. Every/any journalist has an opinion.
Jun 3, 2011 11:04am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Jun 3, 2011 4:22 PM
hoops23;788977 wrote:Actually it does. Look at WS winners, division winners, and playoff appearances overthr last few years. Way more balanced than you would think.

Exactly. I have had the same conversation with him. He doesnt get it
Jun 3, 2011 4:22pm
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jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Jun 3, 2011 4:25 PM
hoops23;789598 wrote:
Miami cleared house, (honestly, does ANY team clear the entire roster unless they "know"?) and signed LeBron and Bosh..
The Knicks did haha
Jun 3, 2011 4:25pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Jun 3, 2011 10:22 PM
jordo212000;790306 wrote:The Knicks did haha

So did New Jersey. Chicago put themselves in position.

This has been a dream season for the NBA.
Jun 3, 2011 10:22pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Jun 3, 2011 11:44 PM
thedynasty1998;790462 wrote:So did New Jersey. Chicago put themselves in position.

This has been a dream season for the NBA.

I think what he said went right over your head.
Jun 3, 2011 11:44pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Jun 4, 2011 12:10 AM
The Knicks, Nets, and Bulls also got down to one player on their roster? That's news to me. Maybe I should have paid closer attention.
Jun 4, 2011 12:10am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Jun 4, 2011 12:17 AM
Cleveland Buck;790515 wrote:The Knicks, Nets, and Bulls also got down to one player on their roster? That's news to me. Maybe I should have paid closer attention.

Well, I get what jordo was saying about the Knicks, because they really did shed some roster thinking they had LeBron and Amar'e or Bosh in the bag...

Now Chicago didn't really shed their main players. They kept Noah, Deng, Rose, and a couple others.. So I'm not sure what he meant by that one...
Jun 4, 2011 12:17am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Jun 4, 2011 12:21 AM
Forbes article from January talking about the NBA's economic state: http://www.businessinsider.com/forbes-17-of-30-nba-teams-lost-money-last-year-2011-1

Last season, 17 of 30 NBA teams lost money.

Many admit that the state of the NBA is in trouble without economic changes from within the league. The league itself lost $400 mill. David Stern himself has stressed the issue of finding a resolution..

The NBA is going to have a terrible lockout and some think may even lose the season, the "interest" of the Miami Heat will dwindle after this season, but yet Dynasty thinks the NBA is doing "great"...
Jun 4, 2011 12:21am
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

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15,933 posts
Jun 4, 2011 2:05 AM
The entertainment value of the NBA is the highest it has been in 15 years.

The economic situation is the NBA is the worst it's ever been and worse than any other league.

So I can see why some people feel that way. Part of what people would equate to as "great" is definitely hitting the mark.
Jun 4, 2011 2:05am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 4, 2011 7:58 AM
hoops23;790521 wrote:Forbes article from January talking about the NBA's economic state: http://www.businessinsider.com/forbes-17-of-30-nba-teams-lost-money-last-year-2011-1

Last season, 17 of 30 NBA teams lost money.

Many admit that the state of the NBA is in trouble without economic changes from within the league. The league itself lost $400 mill. David Stern himself has stressed the issue of finding a resolution..

The NBA is going to have a terrible lockout and some think may even lose the season, the "interest" of the Miami Heat will dwindle after this season, but yet Dynasty thinks the NBA is doing "great"...

My understanding has been that the NBA is profiting but is only taking a loss or losing money on paper. It's just creative accounting. I'll see if I can find an article.

I meant the Bulls cleared space. People would have similar issues if Lebron went to Chicago. Maybe not as much, buy there would still be the complaints about the big market teams.
Jun 4, 2011 7:58am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Jun 4, 2011 8:07 AM
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/08/is-the-nba-really-losing-money/

That explains how owners can write off depreciation, salaries to themselves, interest and other paper loses on tax returns.

Any successful business can get creative and hide profit.

Now are there some teams legitimatially losing money? There may be. But as a whole the NBA is making money and the large market teams are doing well.
Jun 4, 2011 8:07am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Jun 4, 2011 9:23 AM
The Knicks, Nets, and Bulls also got down to one player on their roster? That's news to me. Maybe I should have paid closer attention.

Well, I get what jordo was saying about the Knicks, because they really did shed some roster thinking they had LeBron and Amar'e or Bosh in the bag...

Now Chicago didn't really shed their main players. They kept Noah, Deng, Rose, and a couple others.. So I'm not sure what he meant by that one...
Exactly what I was saying. A person would have to be biased for them not to say that the Knicks were doing the exact same thing. It backfired on them too
Jun 4, 2011 9:23am
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KR1245

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4,317 posts
Jun 4, 2011 11:00 AM
Everyone has an opinion. Shaquille O'Neal weighs in on the most controversial subject in the NBA over the past year, LeBron's decision to leave Cleveland. Shaq's opinion is noteworthy, as the Big Diesel was right in the middle of the Cleveland soap opera last season when they failed to make it past the Celtics in the second round.

According to Ken Bergerfrom cbssports.com:
"If he had been straight up with the guy [Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert], like, 'I'm not coming back,' and let the guy make moves and try to build his team, everything would've been all right," O'Neal said. "But you can't keep messing around -- 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.' And then, 'All right, Mike [Brown], you're gone. All right, you're gone, you're gone.' The guy was trying to make it better for LeBron, but LeBron and his group of guys didn't tell him what was going on. And then at the last minute, it was too late. The guy couldn't go out and get any free agents. I just think if LeBron had just done it better business-tactically, things would've been all right."
Jun 4, 2011 11:00am
B

BR1986FB

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Jun 4, 2011 11:05 AM
KR1245;790640 wrote:Everyone has an opinion. Shaquille O'Neal weighs in on the most controversial subject in the NBA over the past year, LeBron's decision to leave Cleveland. Shaq's opinion is noteworthy, as the Big Diesel was right in the middle of the Cleveland soap opera last season when they failed to make it past the Celtics in the second round.

According to Ken Bergerfrom cbssports.com:
"If he had been straight up with the guy [Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert], like, 'I'm not coming back,' and let the guy make moves and try to build his team, everything would've been all right," O'Neal said. "But you can't keep messing around -- 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.' And then, 'All right, Mike [Brown], you're gone. All right, you're gone, you're gone.' The guy was trying to make it better for LeBron, but LeBron and his group of guys didn't tell him what was going on. And then at the last minute, it was too late. The guy couldn't go out and get any free agents. I just think if LeBron had just done it better business-tactically, things would've been all right."

Pretty much the feelings of Cleveland fans as to the hatred of Lebron along with that fucking stupid "Decision."
Jun 4, 2011 11:05am
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jordo212000

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Jun 4, 2011 11:15 AM
BR1986FB;790643 wrote:Pretty much the feelings of Cleveland fans as to the hatred of Lebron along with that fucking stupid "Decision."

Lebron did do Cleveland dirty. I freely admit that.

However the writing was definitely on the wall, and I am sure that Gilbert knew that. The only problem was that Gilbert wasn't really able to make any sort of moves until after the decision. And by then, most everybody had taken their talents elsewhere. Which sucks, but it is probably ultimately for the best.

If Gilbert knew ahead of time, he might have spent big money on somebody who wasn't deserving and somebody who would assist them in being slightly competitive and ensure the Cavs of a mid-round pick. Which is purgatory for an NBA team. When the party is over, your best to tank in the NBA and attempt to get lucky in the lottery. You then can also take advantage of teams who tried to pacify fans by making the mistake you just avoided (giving big money to a guy who will get you a 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs). -cough cough Clippers shedding Baron Davis' awful contract and the Cavs getting a top pick-
Jun 4, 2011 11:15am
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BR1986FB

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Jun 4, 2011 11:29 AM
jordo212000;790647 wrote: However the writing was definitely on the wall, and I am sure that Gilbert knew that. The only problem was that Gilbert wasn't really able to make any sort of moves until after the decision. And by then, most everybody had taken their talents elsewhere. Which sucks, but it is probably ultimately for the best.

I think you're WAY off on this. The writing wasn't "definitely on the wall." The Cavs went "all in" on Lebron assuming they were the frontrunner and that he'd re-sign. If anything, Gilbert should've been ashamed for NOT having a "Plan B." Had Lebron not "done them dirty", as you mentioned, they could've at least tried to focus their energies elsewhere. Not saying they would've landed a major free agent but at least they would have had a chance.
Jun 4, 2011 11:29am
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jordo212000

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Jun 4, 2011 12:01 PM
BR1986FB;790652 wrote:I think you're WAY off on this. The writing wasn't "definitely on the wall." The Cavs went "all in" on Lebron assuming they were the frontrunner and that he'd re-sign. If anything, Gilbert should've been ashamed for NOT having a "Plan B." Had Lebron not "done them dirty", as you mentioned, they could've at least tried to focus their energies elsewhere. Not saying they would've landed a major free agent but at least they would have had a chance.

I have heard a lot of reports and that's what I am basing my opinion off of.

First there was the report that Lebron wouldnt return his calls and then I heard that Izzo's people reached out to Lebron and Lebron wouldn't assure him that he was returning. Plus if Lebron was returning to Cleveland, he would have certainly been one of the first to sign so that he could have been in place for free agents/trades. However, he chose to be the last to be signed. These are all clues. Nothing concrete there, but still. I think Gilbert probably knew deep down that the situation didn't look good.

However, like I said previously. Lebron might have helped in the long run by waiting. They may have panicked and signed somebody who wasnt deserving to a max deal in order to please the fans. Instead, they did what is ideal when you need to rebuild. They tanked (not a voluntary tank mind you) but it was still tanking and I think in the long run this will benefit them
Jun 4, 2011 12:01pm
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thedynasty1998

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Jun 4, 2011 12:05 PM
First off, after Lebron left it was best for Gilbert to throw in the towel on the season and begin rebuilding. I think that was his plan B. It was all or nothing with Lebron.

Secondly, I don't understand why people act like Lebron was the first player in history to test the free agency waters and make a decision. Sure he could have been more open with Gilbert and Gilbert certainly deserved at least that. But Lebron was non committal all year so Gilbert had to have known that it wasn't promising.
Jun 4, 2011 12:05pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Jun 4, 2011 12:13 PM
People aren't mad that LBJ tested the FA market. He earned that right. It's the way he went about it. Having teams fly into Cleveland to meet him then making a 1 hour special called 'The Decision'. He knows the sports history of this town and that was a slap in the face.

I'm not surprised you don't understand this though.
Jun 4, 2011 12:13pm
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sleeper

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Jun 4, 2011 12:14 PM
BR1986FB;790643 wrote:Pretty much the feelings of Cleveland fans as to the hatred of Lebron along with that fucking stupid "Decision."

+1

Although I don't hate Lebron, there's no denying the guy is a huge douchebag.
Jun 4, 2011 12:14pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jun 4, 2011 12:23 PM
hoops23;790671 wrote:People aren't mad that LBJ tested the FA market. He earned that right. It's the way he went about it. Having teams fly into Cleveland to meet him then making a 1 hour special called 'The Decision'. He knows the sports history of this town and that was a slap in the face.

I'm not surprised you don't understand this though.

Actually most people were in favor of Lebron having teams meet him in Cleveland because it sped up the process. That was actually a courtesy to all teams involved because he didn't drag it out. But yes, the decision was done in poor taste and no one will argue otherwise.
Jun 4, 2011 12:23pm
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devil1197

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6,220 posts
Jun 4, 2011 4:39 PM
Shaq's thoughts on LeBron's decision:

According to Ken Bergerfrom cbssports.com:
"If he had been straight up with the guy [Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert], like, 'I'm not coming back,' and let the guy make moves and try to build his team, everything would've been all right," O'Neal said. "But you can't keep messing around -- 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.' And then, 'All right, Mike [Brown], you're gone. All right, you're gone, you're gone.' The guy was trying to make it better for LeBron, but LeBron and his group of guys didn't tell him what was going on. And then at the last minute, it was too late. The guy couldn't go out and get any free agents. I just think if LeBron had just done it better business-tactically, things would've been all right."
Jun 4, 2011 4:39pm
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Midstate01

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Jun 4, 2011 4:43 PM
devil1197;790795 wrote:Shaq's thoughts on LeBron's decision:

According to Ken Bergerfrom cbssports.com:
"If he had been straight up with the guy [Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert], like, 'I'm not coming back,' and let the guy make moves and try to build his team, everything would've been all right," O'Neal said. "But you can't keep messing around -- 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.' And then, 'All right, Mike [Brown], you're gone. All right, you're gone, you're gone.' The guy was trying to make it better for LeBron, but LeBron and his group of guys didn't tell him what was going on. And then at the last minute, it was too late. The guy couldn't go out and get any free agents. I just think if LeBron had just done it better business-tactically, things would've been all right."

Next time read back a few posts....
Jun 4, 2011 4:43pm
D

devil1197

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6,220 posts
Jun 4, 2011 4:44 PM
Midstate01;790798 wrote:Next time read back a few posts....

I'll post how I want to, thanks for the concerns though!
Jun 4, 2011 4:44pm