LJ;712843 wrote:Because it is all new development of the Arena district between 2000 and 2010. It's not like an area was just taken over and gentrified, which is what your source is trying to say was happening in Columbus. The biggest growth areas were still the burbs. It doesn't prove that people are moving back into the city, it just shows that new development will draw people wherever it is for a time. If the CBJ moved out of Columbus, you would see that area blue again. The majority of people aren't moving to those areas because of what you say, they are moving there because they are "hip".
But I am not sure how it "worked out", because, like I said, the suburban growth more than outpaced any growth downtown.
Relatively false.
The immediate downtown Columbus population grew, not including the Arena District. In 2005 the population was a mere ~2,200. Now it is ~6,000. Tiny in size, but not in growth.
The Short North was absolutely taken over, and is a great example of gentrification. Yes, not between 2000-2010. It's known nationally for being that way. It is that suburban home neighborhood within biking distance of downtown. Make no mistake, that is the model planners want to facilitate. Of course it's not going to happen overnight. Columbus' streetcar plan was to facilitate growth between Ohio State, the Short North, the Arena District, and downtown; taking all of the catalysts and linking them together for investment and thus a snowball effect.
You are correct that it is happening because it is "hip." No question about it. Municipalities realized that they have the power to control where sports facilities go (and transportation). Back in the day, when it was thought that suburban sprawl has no negative effects, these arenas were placed in suburban settings (i.e., the Pontiac Silverdome, Palace of Auburn Hills, Coliseum at Richfield). It isn't by chance these arenas have being moved inward. Toledo just opened their Huntington Center for their hockey team downtown, near Fifth Third Field. It's the same idea. Get some excitement downtown. It's why they built the Arena District in the first place. But this isn't some suburban shopping center that will go dry in twenty years because a better one was build, the Arena District is here to stay. I agree the CBJ leaving would be horrible. Let's not talk about that scenario haha
I assume your point is that it is because of these initiatives and not purely economics. You would be correct again. But I am talking about the future, when has hits $5.00 or $6.00. It will grow exponentially, or there will be gas riots.
The construction of the Arena District is the entertainment form of "building for momentum," and a streetcar line is the transportation form. I'm am 1000% more adamant about building streetcar lines than I am HSR. I think HSR is awesome, but I don't think anyone disagrees the use wouldn't be high
at first.
gut;713398 wrote:The problem is it's not very economical in that situation because then you need to rent a car or take a cab to get to your ultimate destination and/or get around while you're there. They only make money with a lot of commuters, and it's why it only makes sense in high density areas like NY or CHI.
Yeah, it's great if you live in CLE and get a job in Columbus and can get there in 30 minutes, provided you don't have to rent a car, take a cab or a long bus ride to ultimately get to your job.
I think you're thinking about HSR as meant for commuting. Please don't; there is still a shit ton of travel on I-71 and most aren't commuters.
One huge advantage with streetcars (as opposed to buses) and HSR is that the stations are relatively permanent. This leads to massive real estate development. Similar to how an interstate path changes make or break property values. Also, the HSR stations are with walking proximity to downtowns. There are currently more than 110 companies with headquarters downtown, and 100,000 downtown employees, who carry a spending potential of $375,000,000. Surprisingly large figures in my opinion. There are also ~40,000 students who come every day.
Yes, you are correct that not everything is within walking distance; you would need a car to get around the city and that is a turn-off. That is precisely what is wrong with American planning from 1950-present (the difference being there is more success today, but still failures like the casino placement). The answer is to have an intra-urban streetcar system before you have a HSR station. It has been proven time and again that permanent transportation stations create real estate investment and higher densities. It's the driving force behind transit-oriented development. Arlington, VA is one of the best cases.
These aren't going to work crisscrossing the country because you need density at both points, or you might get by with a little less density if you can have decent density along most of the route.
Along the route? That is completely irrelevant. The point of HSR is to connect high-density places like a downtown Chicago to downtown St. Louis, or downtown Chicago to downtown Toledo to downtown Cleveland. It doesn't stop in more than one stop in a city, so consider it an airport. A cheaper, cleaner, and in moderate distance scenarios faster than taking the plane....that also yields greater economic investment to immediate downtowns.
