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Officiating in Central Ohio

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Officiating in Central Ohio
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 22, 2011 9:54 AM
That may be true Fab1, but you are in Florida and he may be referring to Ohio officials.
Feb 22, 2011 9:54am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 10:00 AM
Well don't forget I did all my wrestling in Ohio. I now work with many Ohio Officials at national level tournaments. I think you'll hear the same stalling complaints everywhere.

Though I stick up for officials please don't take my stance as officials are never wrong either. Every official out there has blown it at some point, we all have!
Feb 22, 2011 10:00am
Fatmanroll>Peterson's avatar

Fatmanroll>Peterson

Senior Member

294 posts
Feb 22, 2011 11:06 AM
Thanks for the props on the username Fab1b! Like I said in my comment, I do not in anyway, shape, or form envy the role of an official in any sport ESPECIALLY wrestling. Wrestling makes the job twice as tough because you are out there on an island. That match call IMO was not stalling, and like I said, it appeared that both kids were in the center of the mat BOTH riding out the time for OT. Again, just my opinion. I have been heated with officials before during matches (actualling during the Licking Heights Tournament on my heavyweight's crossface call) but it is usually just me caught up in the moment, or being passionate defending my kid.

PS - Fear the fatman roll.
Feb 22, 2011 11:06am
8

80baby

Senior Member

193 posts
Feb 22, 2011 11:42 AM
Stalling has been like a curve this season. I’ve had some calls on my kids that I agree with and some that have just blew my mind. The main on for me is blocking off at the waist. If a kid blocks off at the waist once I’ll give that to them however if they keep doing it and don’t try to counter that’s stalling and the call should be made. The other one that gets to me is when the bottom kid stands up and the top kid is trying to return them to the mat both kids working hard then the top kid gets a stalling call. This to me has been the most inconsistent call this season. I’ve seen some officials counting with their hand then making the call. I have to ask if both kids are working hard is it stalling? Don’t get me wrong if the bottom kid stands up and the top kid is just holding them and not trying to return them to the mat then that is stalling my kid or anyone else.
Feb 22, 2011 11:42am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 12:10 PM
The only time a ref should count with their arm for a stalling call is when the bottom man is broken down with the foot trapped to the butt for 5 seconds, stalling top man. Other than that there is no time definition for a stalling call in any position.
Feb 22, 2011 12:10pm
C

Cthelites

Senior Member

1,951 posts
Feb 22, 2011 12:34 PM
Fab1b;687196 wrote:The only time a ref should count with their arm for a stalling call is when the bottom man is broken down with the foot trapped to the butt for 5 seconds, stalling top man. Other than that there is no time definition for a stalling call in any position.

I see this in college all the time.
Cant do in HS?
Feb 22, 2011 12:34pm
R

Refman

Senior Member

114 posts
Feb 22, 2011 12:52 PM
The spring class will be held starting March 7th and the final given April 25th.

The classes will be at:
Dublin Davis Middle School
2400 Sutter Parkway
Dublin, OH 43016
Class will be 7-9pm, every Monday night.
Cost is $65.00
Bring a pen and paper first night

What's really cool by taking the spring class...is that OHSAA recognizes that this is your 1st year. When you renew in June, you will be starting your 2nd year, and can take your move up test to Class 1 next winter.

More info: [email protected]
Feb 22, 2011 12:52pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 1:23 PM
Cthelites;687223 wrote:I see this in college all the time.
Cant do in HS?

Which part? The only 5 second stalling rule is the foot trapped to the butt while broken down. If you are referring to say the top man has 5 seconds to bring the bottom man back to the mat after they stand up, that is no longer the rule and hasn't been for a long time in HS. By rule the top man must make an attempt to return the bottom man, if no attempt is made then it can be deemed stalling in the ref's judgment but there is no time associated with that. Also remember they don't have to be successful at the return to the mat, only make an attempt to avoid a stalling call by rule.

Also if you are talking about HS rules, forget about college as there are alot of difference in college rules to HS rules.
Feb 22, 2011 1:23pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 22, 2011 1:54 PM
Jmar25;686968 wrote:very ignorant....
You may not agree with my opinion, but to call it ignorant is to say that my views are lacking knowledge or are uneducated on the subject. As I stated in my post, my opinion is based on 30-plus years of wrestling, coaching, and watching the sport. I also have taken the officials' class. So, my opinions may be wrong, but they are not ignorant.
Fab1b;686990 wrote:Sorry I believe you are making your own assumption or seeing things the way you want. I don't care the score or time I will hit a wrestler for stalling no matter the match, time, score if I feel there is stalling. Will the crowd boo, hoot and holler, freak out? You bet everytime!

That's exactly what I would expect an official to say. It has been my experience that the first 30 seconds of a match and the last 30 seconds of a match are officiated completely differently.
Feb 22, 2011 1:54pm
B

bigdogdad

Member

54 posts
Feb 22, 2011 1:55 PM
All I know is when my kid won, the refs were great. When he lost they didn't know their ear from a hole in the ground. And they only get worse as the big show approaches. Even at the Schott they stink (if you lose that is).

My favorite stalling that is never called is when the heavy's are wrestling and the head gear keeps coming off, the phantom asthma attack, or whatever they can come up with just so they can catch their breath. There are a few kids that need their head gear nailed to their head. Why officials let them get away with it I'll never know.
Feb 22, 2011 1:55pm
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Feb 22, 2011 1:58 PM
Fab1b;687280 wrote:By rule the top man must make an attempt to return the bottom man, if no attempt is made then it can be deemed stalling in the ref's judgment but there is no time associated with that. Also remember they don't have to be successful at the return to the mat, only make an attempt to avoid a stalling call by rule.

I have argued this with officials so many times it kills me. Unsuccessful attempts are still attempts. I have seen too many kids get hit with stalling because the bottom man has good balance and doesnt go down easily. This is one of the most inconsistent calls out there.
Feb 22, 2011 1:58pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 1:59 PM
bigdogdad;687319 wrote:All I know is when my kid won, the refs were great. When he lost they didn't know their ear from a hole in the ground. And they only get worse as the big show approaches. Even at the Schott they stink (if you lose that is).

My favorite stalling that is never called is when the heavy's are wrestling and the head gear keeps coming off, the phantom asthma attack, or whatever they can come up with just so they can catch their breath. There are a few kids that need their head gear nailed to their head. Why officials let them get away with it I'll never know.

With the asthma, they get two injury timeouts for a total of 1:30. If they need an inhaler it's injury time, after two times the match is over. The headgear is legal equipment and by rule is not penalized to fix legal equipment. Now me personally will have the coaches tape it on after it comes off once or twice, I won't let it keep happening without some sort of attempt to fix the problem with tape or replacing the headgear.
Feb 22, 2011 1:59pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 2:00 PM
Bitterrunner-up;687317 wrote:You may not agree with my opinion, but to call it ignorant is to say that my views are lacking knowledge or are uneducated on the subject. As I stated in my post, my opinion is based on 30-plus years of wrestling, coaching, and watching the sport. I also have taken the officials' class. So, my opinions may be wrong, but they are not ignorant.



That's exactly what I would expect an official to say. It has been my experience that the first 30 seconds of a match and the last 30 seconds of a match are officiated completely differently.

What I said is directly related to the rules for stalling, I just added my input about the crowd but you know it's true!
Feb 22, 2011 2:00pm
T

The2cKDude

Senior Member

188 posts
Feb 22, 2011 2:04 PM
Fab1b;687005 wrote:Well don't forget I did all my wrestling in Ohio. I now work with many Ohio Officials at national level tournaments. I think you'll hear the same stalling complaints everywhere.

Though I stick up for officials please don't take my stance as officials are never wrong either. Every official out there has blown it at some point, we all have!

I'm guessing you don't work with too many central ohio officials at the national level. my guess would be none. there are plenty of solid officials in ohio, just not to many in the central disctrict.
Feb 22, 2011 2:04pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 2:23 PM
The2cKDude;687331 wrote:I'm guessing you don't work with too many central ohio officials at the national level. my guess would be none. there are plenty of solid officials in ohio, just not to many in the central disctrict.

LOL I get it, you think the officiating there is bad. I have worked with some Columbus area officials, sorry I don't drop names but they did a fine job while with me.
Feb 22, 2011 2:23pm
C

Cthelites

Senior Member

1,951 posts
Feb 22, 2011 10:28 PM
Fab1b;687280 wrote:Which part? The only 5 second stalling rule is the foot trapped to the butt while broken down. If you are referring to say the top man has 5 seconds to bring the bottom man back to the mat after they stand up, that is no longer the rule and hasn't been for a long time in HS. By rule the top man must make an attempt to return the bottom man, if no attempt is made then it can be deemed stalling in the ref's judgment but there is no time associated with that. Also remember they don't have to be successful at the return to the mat, only make an attempt to avoid a stalling call by rule.

I was talking about the foot to the but.
Seen a lot of college guys do this riding and even trying to turn that way.
HS you must release regardless if you are turning?

I agree with theDude about the stall/nonstall when kid stands up and trying to return back to mat being confusing
So to clarify:
Kid A on top Kid B stands up 4 seconds go by and A attempts to bring B to mat to no avail. 4. more seconds go by and A tries again to no avail. This could go on til the end of the period? That doesnt sound right though.
Feb 22, 2011 10:28pm
J

Jmar25

Senior Member

438 posts
Feb 23, 2011 9:32 AM
Bitterrunner-up;687317 wrote:You may not agree with my opinion, but to call it ignorant is to say that my views are lacking knowledge or are uneducated on the subject. As I stated in my post, my opinion is based on 30-plus years of wrestling, coaching, and watching the sport. I also have taken the officials' class. So, my opinions may be wrong, but they are not ignorant.



That's exactly what I would expect an official to say. It has been my experience that the first 30 seconds of a match and the last 30 seconds of a match are officiated completely differently.

You're making a very big generalized statement based off of one of your own assumptions. You assume that every ref looks at the score or the time on the clock then decides....eh now is the time I am allowed to nake that call or eh....this match is not close enough let me find a reason to call stalling. I find it very hard to believe that all refs do this like you assume. Heck... I dunno... Maybe it is the kids actually stalling? Maybe they are tired and do not wrestle in the same fashion at the end of the match as to compared to the beginning.... Maybe that kid knows if he works really hard and just tries to defend instead of trying hard to earn points so he switches to a new tactic the last 30 seconds so now the official has to reward the kid attempting to earn points. As you can see there are many scenarios to look upon when making a judgement call. I only named two... I could continue.But None of which has to do with time or score. So when you assume or place blame completely on all officials when you have zero proof of what they think... That is ignorance or a lack of knowledge.
Feb 23, 2011 9:32am
S

Shankapotamus

Member

58 posts
Feb 23, 2011 10:04 AM
Jmar25;688255 wrote:You're making a very big generalized statement based off of one of your own assumptions. You assume that every ref looks at the score or the time on the clock then decides....eh now is the time I am allowed to nake that call or eh....this match is not close enough let me find a reason to call stalling. I find it very hard to believe that all refs do this like you assume. Heck... I dunno... Maybe it is the kids actually stalling? Maybe they are tired and do not wrestle in the same fashion at the end of the match as to compared to the beginning.... Maybe that kid knows if he works really hard and just tries to defend instead of trying hard to earn points so he switches to a new tactic the last 30 seconds so now the official has to reward the kid attempting to earn points. As you can see there are many scenarios to look upon when making a judgement call. I only named two... I could continue.But None of which has to do with time or score. So when you assume or place blame completely on all officials when you have zero proof of what they think... That is ignorance or a lack of knowledge.
I sure hope you aren't working this weekend. Your callus attitude reeks from your post. Brace yourself, because as the boards continue to complain about stalling in about two weeks Refman will publish his yearly dissertation on stalling which in essense takes match score and time left into account. Will you choose to dispute it as ignorant?
Feb 23, 2011 10:04am
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 23, 2011 12:09 PM
Jmar25;688255 wrote:You're making a very big generalized statement based off of one of your own assumptions. You assume that every ref looks at the score or the time on the clock then decides....eh now is the time I am allowed to nake that call or eh....this match is not close enough let me find a reason to call stalling. I find it very hard to believe that all refs do this like you assume. Heck... I dunno... Maybe it is the kids actually stalling? Maybe they are tired and do not wrestle in the same fashion at the end of the match as to compared to the beginning.... Maybe that kid knows if he works really hard and just tries to defend instead of trying hard to earn points so he switches to a new tactic the last 30 seconds so now the official has to reward the kid attempting to earn points. As you can see there are many scenarios to look upon when making a judgement call. I only named two... I could continue.But None of which has to do with time or score. So when you assume or place blame completely on all officials when you have zero proof of what they think... That is ignorance or a lack of knowledge.

I don't see how it is a generalized statement. I share the same beliefs as bitter, and I know a lot of people share the same beliefs as well. Are we all ignorant then? Is this how the officials handle these type of issues at their annual meeting? They just say the complaints are ignorant?
Feb 23, 2011 12:09pm
J

Jmar25

Senior Member

438 posts
Feb 23, 2011 12:45 PM
like_that;688576 wrote:I don't see how it is a generalized statement. I share the same beliefs as bitter, and I know a lot of people share the same beliefs as well. Are we all ignorant then? Is this how the officials handle these type of issues at their annual meeting? They just say the complaints are ignorant?

So everyone believes that we/all officials make a stalling call based upon what the score is and how much time is left in the match? That is how I took his statement...
Feb 23, 2011 12:45pm
J

Jmar25

Senior Member

438 posts
Feb 23, 2011 12:49 PM
Shankapotamus;688292 wrote:I sure hope you aren't working this weekend. Your callus attitude reeks from your post. Brace yourself, because as the boards continue to complain about stalling in about two weeks Refman will publish his yearly dissertation on stalling which in essense takes match score and time left into account. Will you choose to dispute it as ignorant?

I always listen and
Feb 23, 2011 12:49pm
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

Senior Member

5,642 posts
Feb 23, 2011 1:11 PM
I have witnessed JMar officiate, while he is relatively new to the scene, he does do Varsity, he has never been a spectacle or distraction IMHO. He has officiated fairly and is knowledgeable with his calls.
Feb 23, 2011 1:11pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 23, 2011 1:14 PM
Jmar25;688640 wrote:So everyone believes that we/all officials make a stalling call based upon what the score is and how much time is left in the match? That is how I took his statement...
Not every stall call is made with time and score in mind, but many are...far too many. If you'e an official and you think you don't take time and score into account I don't think you're ignorant, I think you're delusional.
Feb 23, 2011 1:14pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 23, 2011 1:15 PM
Jmar25;688640 wrote:So everyone believes that we/all officials make a stalling call based upon what the score is and how much time is left in the match? That is how I took his statement...

Not everyone, but in your case you would be surprised how many people believe this, including many coaches. I can't tell you how many times either a coach, fan, or myself predicted a stall call, because wrestler A was up in points over wrestler B with 30 seconds left. Its a prediction formula that works most of the time.
Feb 23, 2011 1:15pm
W

wmfan

Junior Member

8 posts
Feb 24, 2011 9:30 AM
Refman;687245 wrote:The spring class will be held starting March 7th and the final given April 25th.

The classes will be at:
Dublin Davis Middle School
2400 Sutter Parkway
Dublin, OH 43016
Class will be 7-9pm, every Monday night.
Cost is $65.00
Bring a pen and paper first night

What's really cool by taking the spring class...is that OHSAA recognizes that this is your 1st year. When you renew in June, you will be starting your 2nd year, and can take your move up test to Class 1 next winter.

More info: [email protected]

So what you are telling us is that in less than 2 months you will have credit for 12??? Could this be part of the problem with refereeing in Central Ohio.....How about making the refs get a year under their belt before you advance them to the second year????

My other question is: Does OHSAA have rules intrepreters that travel around and grade their wrestling officials as they do for HS football?
Feb 24, 2011 9:30am