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Officiating in Central Ohio

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Officiating in Central Ohio
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Feb 21, 2011 5:56 AM
I was involved in a match in 1990 in which I had a kid on his back and was repetitively eye gouged...the ref finally stopped the match and awarded 1,1,2,DQ all at once. I would have rather had the pin call though.

As for the 2 refs in go to matches...that came from Cal Adams who is in charge of the central district post-season tournaments. I dont know if the rest of the state does it, but the central tournament managers were told to do it.
Feb 21, 2011 5:56am
xnds1fan's avatar

xnds1fan

Senior Member

442 posts
Feb 21, 2011 7:01 AM
Standoff22;685379 wrote:Refs are always going to make bad calls, it happens. Yes there are a select few that should definitely not be refs, but refs aren't given the credit they deserve for making minimal mistakes in such a tough sport. Before you criticize do it and see how you like it. My guess is you would never complain again.

This
Feb 21, 2011 7:01am
J

Jmar25

Senior Member

438 posts
Feb 21, 2011 8:42 AM
Tony Mead;685376 wrote:8 points at one given moment is weird and very unfortunate. i would like to see this rule get clarified with the referees. i did see the ref remove the hand from the face 3 times. the fact that the boy that got hit was on his back its considered a pinning combination which is why the match wasnt stopped when he was on his back. as soon as he rolled to his stomach he stopped the match.

4 back points 1, 1 and 2 all at once. score was 4-0 and automatically 12 to 0 there is no way a kid should score 8 pts at one given time.

what confused me was im assuming the 4th back point was 1 point for poking him in the eye to get off his back? then the 3 t.v.'s were awarded for 4 more points. wouldnt the poke be part of the t.v.'s?

this happen at the youth level this year to. except at the youth match the kid was penalized 1, 1, 2, dq all at once from being on his back. this should never hapen at the youth level!
this is one of those rules that the way it happen it was correctly called AS PER THE RULES. but needs adjusted to make it a verbal announcement or something more noticable so the kid knows he is getting penalized.
The rule in the rule book (and this is one that is always brought up year after year at our local association) is that if a violation occurs THAT COULD make the official stop the match while in near fall criteria, the ref is to award a "bonus" point onto the NF points then award the penalty. SO.... if the kid is close to 45 degrees or near fall is immanent... 2 points... a two count is issued... 3 points... a 5 count is issued... 4 points.... Then you award the technical violation points after the NF is given. So if a kid is putting his hands on the face of the pinning wrestler and not the chin/headgear and the referee feels it's at a point where he could stop it.... then this is the criteria used
Feb 21, 2011 8:42am
1

119

Junior Member

10 posts
Feb 21, 2011 8:50 AM
That's what I remember from Pick North-- that I barely remember seeing the refs. A few were slow to call pins -- not just against our team, btw, but in general, but I couldn't tell you who they were, because overall the officiating was pretty darn good. To me it seemed like one of the best reffed tourneys I have been to in a long time.
Feb 21, 2011 8:50am
D

double arm bars

Senior Member

142 posts
Feb 21, 2011 2:22 PM
Pick North was good and the refs let the wrestlers decide the outcome. The gym was very hot so the conditions were pretty tough over the course of a long day.
Feb 21, 2011 2:22pm
T

The2cKDude

Senior Member

188 posts
Feb 21, 2011 3:32 PM
Power half;685353 wrote:The ref was right there is no warning for Illegal holds. He was poking in the eyes on purpose. What did you want the ref to do stop the match let him off his back, then award the penalty. If thats the case everytime your about to get pinned poke the guys eye out and take a point to get off your back. The 4 point near fall was because the 3rd time he poked the kid in the eye he let go and grabbed his eye. The kid should have been thrown out of the tournament for that kind of behavior. Besides that its only 5 points in the match he was tech falled he was still getting dominated 16-1 final.
Poking in the eyes on purpose is a pretty big assumption to make, unless of course you are the wrestler in question. Which i will assume you aren't. Keep in mind the kids read this stuff, and unless he expressly told you he was going for the eyes (which once again i'm sure he did not) you should probly refrain from trying to guess on a wrestlers intent. Just a suggestion.

Also the last two times the referee pulled the hand away the hand was on the CHIN. not in the eyes. only one (unintentional) eye poke, the rest was all legal, and the whole thing wouldn't have been nearly as bad if the referee hadn't refused to explain the call to anyone, let alone the wrestler or his coaches. you need to keep in mind it was a 2-0 match that was hardly dominated before the scramble took place, and while admitadly 7-0 (8-0) is a difficult deficit to come back from, it is nothing compared too 12-0, especially when you have no idea what just happened. Panic sets in and you have no idea what is going on.

I am in no way saying the result was decided on that one exchange. I'm mearly asking the same thing wmfan is, why was the call made, because it seems like no other referee there could explain it and the one who made the call refused to.


and on a side note. each call before the DQ is a warning, therefore if the wrestler doesn't even know he is getting penalized or what for he isn't very well warned is he?
Feb 21, 2011 3:32pm
P

Power half

Senior Member

143 posts
Feb 21, 2011 4:08 PM
The2cKDude;686122 wrote:Poking in the eyes on purpose is a pretty big assumption to make, unless of course you are the wrestler in question. Which i will assume you aren't. Keep in mind the kids read this stuff, and unless he expressly told you he was going for the eyes (which once again i'm sure he did not) you should probly refrain from trying to guess on a wrestlers intent. Just a suggestion.

Also the last two times the referee pulled the hand away the hand was on the CHIN. not in the eyes. only one (unintentional) eye poke, the rest was all legal, and the whole thing wouldn't have been nearly as bad if the referee hadn't refused to explain the call to anyone, let alone the wrestler or his coaches. you need to keep in mind it was a 2-0 match that was hardly dominated before the scramble took place, and while admitadly 7-0 (8-0) is a difficult deficit to come back from, it is nothing compared too 12-0, especially when you have no idea what just happened. Panic sets in and you have no idea what is going on.

I am in no way saying the result was decided on that one exchange. I'm mearly asking the same thing wmfan is, why was the call made, because it seems like no other referee there could explain it and the one who made the call refused to.


and on a side note. each call before the DQ is a warning, therefore if the wrestler doesn't even know he is getting penalized or what for he isn't very well warned is he?

I was matside for the match. It was 3 times to the eyes, and the ref did pull the hand away and say something. I'm sure if it were your kid on top you would probally see it different. There is no excuse for it, he did it and was given penalty points. If it happened once it might have been an accident twice maybe not but three times come on. If his hand was on the chin like you are saying the ref would have no reason to pull the hand away. I am not a wrestler but I did have a close up view and the hands did go to the eyes 3 times. I'm sure your kid is a good kid and I'm not trying to bash him just don't blame the ref for making the correct call. I think your kid did not know the rules and was trying to get off his back anyway he could. It's no ones fault but his own. All i'm saying if it were your kid getting poked in the eye your story would be different.
Feb 21, 2011 4:08pm
W

wmfan

Junior Member

8 posts
Feb 21, 2011 4:25 PM
Power half;686176 wrote:I was matside for the match. It was 3 times to the eyes, and the ref did pull the hand away and say something. I'm sure if it were your kid on top you would probally see it different. There is no excuse for it, he did it and was given penalty points. If it happened once it might have been an accident twice maybe not but three times come on. If his hand was on the chin like you are saying the ref would have no reason to pull the hand away. I am not a wrestler but I did have a close up view and the hands did go to the eyes 3 times. I'm sure your kid is a good kid and I'm not trying to bash him just don't blame the ref for making the correct call. I think your kid did not know the rules and was trying to get off his back anyway he could. It's no ones fault but his own. All i'm saying if it were your kid getting poked in the eye your story would be different.

Don't really want to argue this one but; You obviously saw something different than what I saw (also mat side) and what the tape shows that I have watched over and over again. I agree with CK and there was an un-intentional eye poke, as far as the other points I also agree with CK on this one, and I didn't see anything illegal either live or on the tape.

My complaint is why wasn't this explained at the time to both the wrestler and to the kids coaches, unless the ref wanted to be part of the "show". My only point of this whole Thread is that Central Ohio wrestling referees need to stop being the laughing stock of HS wrestling around our state. There are a few out there that I like to watch work a match and am glad to see when I enter the Gym, but most are lazy and don't have a clue.....
Feb 21, 2011 4:25pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 21, 2011 5:37 PM
Love threads like this!! As an official of High School Wrestling, for 13 seasons now in Florida, I see this everywhere. You can go to the Florida Scout Board and read the same about us officials. First off those watching the match can't even agree to what they saw, see you all see it the way you want to see if first off! Are officials perfect, now way, however they aren't out there to screw any kid! Do we make mistakes, you bet!! However more often than not we are correct, you would be amazed as to the rules you do not know, and I see it in this thread. Someone keeps bringing up warnings and it was noted there are no warnings but for stalling or coach misconduct, that is it! The rest is straight to a penalty! Sounds like this call is correct, you stop the match when it can no longer go further, award 4 nearfall and any other penalties that occurred in order of 1, 1, 2, DQ. I have seen it and called it myself!
Feb 21, 2011 5:37pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 21, 2011 5:43 PM
Fab1b;686318 wrote:Love threads like this!! As an official of High School Wrestling, for 13 seasons now in Florida, I see this everywhere. You can go to the Florida Scout Board and read the same about us officials. First off those watching the match can't even agree to what they saw, see you all see it the way you want to see if first off! Are officials perfect, now way, however they aren't out there to screw any kid! Do we make mistakes, you bet!! However more often than not we are correct, you would be amazed as to the rules you do not know, and I see it in this thread. Someone keeps bringing up warnings and it was noted there are no warnings but for stalling or coach misconduct, that is it! The rest is straight to a penalty! Sounds like this call is correct, you stop the match when it can no longer go further, award 4 nearfall and any other penalties that occurred in order of 1, 1, 2, DQ. I have seen it and called it myself!

Agree/Disagree: There should be 2 officials for the conso semis.
Feb 21, 2011 5:43pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 21, 2011 5:49 PM
like_that;686326 wrote:Agree/Disagree: There should be 2 officials for the conso semis.

I agree with that this time of year. We do in Florida for Regionals and State for consi semis, champ semis, and all placement matches.
Feb 21, 2011 5:49pm
G

Gale_force

Member

32 posts
Feb 21, 2011 6:36 PM
Fab1b, you took the words right from my mouth, except you are a ref and I am not, so the explanation is appreciated. :)

The only call that usually gets my blood boiling is the STALL call. I have seen to many times where a wrestler is called for stalling because he is not circling the 2 wrestlers are locked one of them happens to be taking steps in a backward motion, but still trying to excute a move, all along it's the other wrestler that is actually causing the stall because he is doing absolutely nothing but staying locked up... Surely the refs see this kind of stuff but I have never seen it called on the "True" staller because they apparently can hide it or are good at making it not look like a stall. I know I probably didn't explain that very well, but I hope everyone knows what I'm getting at. I see this way to often....and yelling down to the mats that a certain color is stalling only your hurts your wrestler... lol
Feb 21, 2011 6:36pm
Fatmanroll>Peterson's avatar

Fatmanroll>Peterson

Senior Member

294 posts
Feb 21, 2011 8:47 PM
145 Finals match at Licking Heights, referee called stalling with two seconds left to break a 4-4 tie. Kids appeared to be in the center of the mat. DeSales coach was fuming, I would have been too. Let the kids decide the match in OT. I don't envy the role of an official; but unfortunately moments like these are inexcusable IMO.
Feb 21, 2011 8:47pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 21, 2011 9:04 PM
Fatmanroll>Peterson;686556 wrote:145 Finals match at Licking Heights, referee called stalling with two seconds left to break a 4-4 tie. Kids appeared to be in the center of the mat. DeSales coach was fuming, I would have been too. Let the kids decide the match in OT. I don't envy the role of an official; but unfortunately moments like these are inexcusable IMO.

I love your username LOL!!!! Stalling is something no one will ever agree on and that includes officials. What may by stalling to me may not at the time to another official, it is judgment! Sure there are absolute easy stalling calls to make but sometimes what you are seeing isn't exactly what is really happening. For instance one of the big problems in wrestling is blocking and I don't mean with the head, that is obvious. They are now tying up with each other and extending their arm up into the chin/neck/upper chest area which is hard to see sometimes even as the official on the mat let alone the coach in the corner or the fans in the stands. Stalling will always be the biggest gripe by coaches and fans alike but it really will just be that way. Officials try to be consistant with it, try to work with other associations to call it the same way but at the end of the day it isn't possible to do. Don't take that out of context, like I said there are the obvious calls but its the tough ones that are hard to sell to those watching. Also how much time left should have no bearing on the call, if they are stalling the call needs to be made whether 1:59 is left in the period or :02. One thing I share with my young officials when it comes to stalling, if you don't understand it don't call it then. Stalling is a feel that one has to possess. One thing I don't like is referees that call wrestling but have never wrestled, I hate that!!
Feb 21, 2011 9:04pm
american guesser's avatar

american guesser

Member

41 posts
Feb 21, 2011 11:34 PM
having an official who never wrestled would be like having someone who never took an english class in their life proof read an essay.
Feb 21, 2011 11:34pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 21, 2011 11:36 PM
Fatmanroll>Peterson;686556 wrote:145 Finals match at Licking Heights, referee called stalling with two seconds left to break a 4-4 tie. Kids appeared to be in the center of the mat. DeSales coach was fuming, I would have been too. Let the kids decide the match in OT. I don't envy the role of an official; but unfortunately moments like these are inexcusable IMO.
That stalling call was a travesty......official 100% decided the match at that point, not the wrestlers. DeSales kid was not stalling......too bad to see a great match end like that.
Feb 21, 2011 11:36pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Feb 22, 2011 6:16 AM
Fatmanroll>Peterson;686556 wrote:145 Finals match at Licking Heights, referee called stalling with two seconds left to break a 4-4 tie. Kids appeared to be in the center of the mat. DeSales coach was fuming, I would have been too. Let the kids decide the match in OT. I don't envy the role of an official; but unfortunately moments like these are inexcusable IMO.

If he wasn't stalling, that's one thing. If he was stalling, it doesn't matter if there was two seconds left, or a minute. Make the call.
Feb 22, 2011 6:16am
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 22, 2011 6:58 AM
Fab1b;686587 wrote:...Also how much time left should have no bearing on the call, if they are stalling the call needs to be made whether 1:59 is left in the period or :02...

In 30-plus years of wrestling, I've never seen an official who calls it that way. "Good refs", bad refs, college refs, JV refs...all call stalling based on the score and the time left in the bout.
Feb 22, 2011 6:58am
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Feb 22, 2011 8:49 AM
Dad4Sports;686820 wrote:That stalling call was a travesty......official 100% decided the match at that point, not the wrestlers. DeSales kid was not stalling......too bad to see a great match end like that.

The kid from DeSales had taken about 20 steps back waiting out the clock. He was stalling. The problem was, the first stalling call that was a warning was not one I agreed with.
Feb 22, 2011 8:49am
S

Sonofanump

Feb 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Fatmanroll>Peterson;686556 wrote:145 Finals match at Licking Heights, referee called stalling with two seconds left to break a 4-4 tie. Kids appeared to be in the center of the mat. DeSales coach was fuming, I would have been too. Let the kids decide the match in OT. I don't envy the role of an official; but unfortunately moments like these are inexcusable IMO.
Dad4Sports;686820 wrote:That stalling call was a travesty......official 100% decided the match at that point, not the wrestlers. DeSales kid was not stalling......too bad to see a great match end like that.
ksig489;686933 wrote:The kid from DeSales had taken about 20 steps back waiting out the clock. He was stalling. The problem was, the first stalling call that was a warning was not one I agreed with.
Good thing there was an official there instead of just the coaches of the two teams and the fans. Fans want to bitch (like they know the rules or think they could do better) about the officiating, but never take it up themselves. Try having tournament without them.
Feb 22, 2011 9:13am
J

Jmar25

Senior Member

438 posts
Feb 22, 2011 9:22 AM
Bitterrunner-up;686892 wrote:In 30-plus years of wrestling, I've never seen an official who calls it that way. "Good refs", bad refs, college refs, JV refs...all call stalling based on the score and the time left in the bout.

very ignorant....
Feb 22, 2011 9:22am
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 22, 2011 9:35 AM
Jmar25;686968 wrote:very ignorant....

The calls or the statement? (Just to clarify.)
Feb 22, 2011 9:35am
R

rassler

Senior Member

159 posts
Feb 22, 2011 9:44 AM
Jmar25;686968 wrote:very ignorant....
Ignorant ???? More like blatantly honest.
Feb 22, 2011 9:44am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 22, 2011 9:52 AM
Bitterrunner-up;686892 wrote:In 30-plus years of wrestling, I've never seen an official who calls it that way. "Good refs", bad refs, college refs, JV refs...all call stalling based on the score and the time left in the bout.

Sorry I believe you are making your own assumption or seeing things the way you want. I don't care the score or time I will hit a wrestler for stalling no matter the match, time, score if I feel there is stalling. Will the crowd boo, hoot and holler, freak out? You bet everytime!
Feb 22, 2011 9:52am