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Officiating in Central Ohio

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Officiating in Central Ohio
W

wmfan

Junior Member

8 posts
Feb 20, 2011 2:30 PM
At the Marysville Sectional we saw many consoltations be referees during matches. Many disagreements and changes between the two refs on the mats on points calls. And in the semis of the 152 lbs. class we saw a 10 point call, which pretty much sealed this kids fate. I believe the first ever in Ohio High School wrestling. No warning given during the match, but 4 additional points were awarded for a hand to the face. On this call the lead ref had no explaination of what he just called or why he called it and the second ref on the mat just sat there astonished himself with the call.
All day it appeared to many, that these referees were in training. Central Ohio needs to step up and get qualified men to do these caliber of matches and quit bringing in the trainees...
Feb 20, 2011 2:30pm
C

Coach Ramirez

Senior Member

232 posts
Feb 20, 2011 2:40 PM
Not a ref basher, but Westland had ref issues to say the least. They have to remember people go to tournaments to watch the kids wrestle not them ref!
Feb 20, 2011 2:40pm
6

6 minutes

Senior Member

190 posts
Feb 20, 2011 2:45 PM
coach ramirez....agree totally! Too many refs want to be the center of attention and make a ridiculous call (in which they'll swear they were right) that decides the outcome of a match, in which I seen first hand yesterday....overall, I believe the refs in Central Ohio(in which there are some good ones) aren't very good.
Feb 20, 2011 2:45pm
G

GettinItDone

Member

57 posts
Feb 20, 2011 3:32 PM
i would say which ones were good, but i never know names, u gotta see them by face to remember whether they are good or not....they should were name tags..
Feb 20, 2011 3:32pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 20, 2011 3:35 PM
Coach Ramirez;684696 wrote:... They have to remember people go to tournaments to watch the kids wrestle not them ref!

Having seen blasphemy before, I know what it looks like. And now everyone else does too! :D
Feb 20, 2011 3:35pm
G

Gardens35

Senior Member

4,929 posts
Feb 20, 2011 3:51 PM
I've heard that the refs are better in the NorthEast.....
Feb 20, 2011 3:51pm
P

Power half

Senior Member

143 posts
Feb 20, 2011 3:54 PM
wmfan;684666 wrote:At the Marysville Sectional we saw many consoltations be referees during matches. Many disagreements and changes between the two refs on the mats on points calls. And in the semis of the 152 lbs. class we saw a 10 point call, which pretty much sealed this kids fate. I believe the first ever in Ohio High School wrestling. No warning given during the match, but 4 additional points were awarded for a hand to the face. On this call the lead ref had no explaination of what he just called or why he called it and the second ref on the mat just sat there astonished himself with the call.
All day it appeared to many, that these referees were in training. Central Ohio needs to step up and get qualified men to do these caliber of matches and quit bringing in the trainees...
In this match, the call was a good call. The kid was on his back poking the kid in the eyes 3 different times. Three separate violations. If it were not for the eye pokes the kid would have been pinned. The match still was a tech fall. Do not know what you were watching.
Feb 20, 2011 3:54pm
american guesser's avatar

american guesser

Member

41 posts
Feb 20, 2011 4:05 PM
I stopped by 3 different sectionals yesterday. They were all bad! I have no horse in the race, but way too many matches are not decided by the kids. It appeared that some coaches were trying to coach around the poor officiating. Each tourney should select a board of coaches. At the end of the tourney those coaches should get together after watching and evaluating officials all day and vote on anybody that should not be allowed within 400 feet of a district tournament.
Feb 20, 2011 4:05pm
M

mella

Senior Member

647 posts
Feb 20, 2011 5:15 PM
Since its going to be said I'll say it now. If we need better refs in Central Ohio which one of the critics is going to step up first, get certifide, and do a better job? I know I am not so I'll keep my mouth shut until I am a ref. Some refs are better than others and that is a fact. I don't always agree with every call but the refs usually have a better view than me. (Except for the ones that are too fat to get down and call the pins.:) )
Feb 20, 2011 5:15pm
C

Coach Geisz

Member

80 posts
Feb 20, 2011 5:40 PM
We all need to step up and get a coach or two on each staff certified to ref. The more we have the better the pool to draw from. The spring class is starting soon!
Feb 20, 2011 5:40pm
1_beast's avatar

1_beast

Senior Member

5,642 posts
Feb 20, 2011 5:41 PM
I will say there is a HUGE difference the the officiating in The NE as opposed to Central. I was shocked at the level of officiating at Olentangy earlier this year, and I was informed "You should feel lucky, these guys are some of the better ones". LOL

All in all, the Sectional I attended wasnt too bad...i think really only 1 ref was bad. I'll take that any day, especially after the crew we had last year.
Feb 20, 2011 5:41pm
W

wmfan

Junior Member

8 posts
Feb 20, 2011 6:54 PM
Power half;684878 wrote:In this match, the call was a good call. The kid was on his back poking the kid in the eyes 3 different times. Three separate violations. If it were not for the eye pokes the kid would have been pinned. The match still was a tech fall. Do not know what you were watching.

The point here was NO WARNINGS WERE GIVEN, the rule is: a warning has to be given and 1 point is awarded for each warning.

As for the 4 point near fall that was given, I need an explaination since the match wasn't stopped when the wrestler was on his back and it certainly wasn't stopped by the wrestler or for an injury. It was stopped to award points for a warning after the wrestler was back to his base.

I have watched the tape many times, and this is what I am watching, plus I watched the match live......it was a poor call that changed the match at the time. 8 total points were awarded, where 4 points should have been. 3 for a near fall and one for the warning.....

This was not the only issue through the course of the day with this official and he wasn't the only ref who seemed confused.....
Feb 20, 2011 6:54pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Feb 20, 2011 7:04 PM
Well since one dayton sectional is coming to Darby, I will have to nominate the officiating crew for that sectional as one of the worst. They made so many pathetic calls, and they all thought the fans were there to watch them. The worst was during the conso semis. They only used one ref for the conso semi matches. The reason they gave me was because they only use 1 ref for the consos. You would think for a match as important as the conso semis, they would use two refs so they could try to prevent any screw ups.
Feb 20, 2011 7:04pm
R

Rendog

Junior Member

26 posts
Feb 20, 2011 7:09 PM
wmfan;685123 wrote:The point here was NO WARNINGS WERE GIVEN, the rule is: a warning has to be given and 1 point is awarded for each warning.

There is only a warning given for stalling or coach misconduct. Illegal holds, TV's, Unnecessary Roughness, etc are penalized with-out warning 1, 1, 2...DQ
Feb 20, 2011 7:09pm
R

Rendog

Junior Member

26 posts
Feb 20, 2011 7:13 PM
wmfan;685123 wrote:The point here was NO WARNINGS WERE GIVEN, the rule is: a warning has to be given and 1 point is awarded for each warning.

As for the 4 point near fall that was given, I need an explaination since the match wasn't stopped when the wrestler was on his back and it certainly wasn't stopped by the wrestler or for an injury. It was stopped to award points for a warning after the wrestler was back to his base.

I have watched the tape many times, and this is what I am watching, plus I watched the match live......it was a poor call that changed the match at the time. 8 total points were awarded, where 4 points should have been. 3 for a near fall and one for the warning.....

This was not the only issue through the course of the day with this official and he wasn't the only ref who seemed confused.....



There is only a warning given for stalling or coach misconduct. Illegal holds, TV's, Unnecessary Roughness, etc are penalized with-out warning 1, 1, 2...DQ
Feb 20, 2011 7:13pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 20, 2011 7:50 PM
like_that;685143 wrote:Well since one dayton sectional is coming to Darby, I will have to nominate the officiating crew for that sectional as one of the worst. They made so many pathetic calls, and they all thought the fans were there to watch them. The worst was during the conso semis. They only used one ref for the conso semi matches. The reason they gave me was because they only use 1 ref for the consos. You would think for a match as important as the conso semis, they would use two refs so they could try to prevent any screw ups.
I'm trying to remember, but at D2 Licking Heights I believe that they had 2 refs for the consolation semis.....in fact they made an announcement explaining that they were moving from 3 mats to 2 mats because it was an OHSAA regulation that 2 referees be available for that round.....not 100% sure I heard it correctly?
Feb 20, 2011 7:50pm
ontheline's avatar

ontheline

Senior Member

188 posts
Feb 20, 2011 7:58 PM
wmfan;685123 wrote:The point here was NO WARNINGS WERE GIVEN, the rule is: a warning has to be given and 1 point is awarded for each warning.

As for the 4 point near fall that was given, I need an explaination since the match wasn't stopped when the wrestler was on his back and it certainly wasn't stopped by the wrestler or for an injury. It was stopped to award points for a warning after the wrestler was back to his base.

I have watched the tape many times, and this is what I am watching, plus I watched the match live......it was a poor call that changed the match at the time. 8 total points were awarded, where 4 points should have been. 3 for a near fall and one for the warning.....

This was not the only issue through the course of the day with this official and he wasn't the only ref who seemed confused.....

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought a poke the the eye could be an instant disqualification without a warning? I guess even if it is grounds for instant DQ, the ref obviously didn't see it as flagrant (sp) so maybe a warning should have been issued then the 10 points?

I find it is much easier for me to officiate any sport from the stands than it is when I am at field level? (This comment is not directed to you wmfan. It is meant for all of the officials that sit in the bleachers, have never read a rule book, never completed a clinic, may have learned 25% of the rules through some form of osmosis, and have officiated zero sporting events.)
Feb 20, 2011 7:58pm
W

wmfan

Junior Member

8 posts
Feb 20, 2011 8:00 PM
Rendog;685159 wrote:There is only a warning given for stalling or coach misconduct. Illegal holds, TV's, Unnecessary Roughness, etc are penalized with-out warning 1, 1, 2...DQ
I first want to say that I too realize that sometimes these kids not only have to wrestle their opponent, but also poor officiating is part of every game, match or sport. I also don't agree with bashing the refs. But at this level, only the best of the best should be there.

In this case all points 1, 1, 2 were given on the first stop of action.....I have never seen this done in over 25 years of either participating in or watching HS wrestling. I understand that the points are awarded per warning not as a penalty....I am not saying there should be a warning first, just that the wrestler should have been made aware of the infraction, before the second, third and 4th point were awarded....

Please explain the 4 point near fall rule....again I have never seen or heard of it being awarded in this manner before. I have also never seen a 10 point move before, (there was a reversal out of a scramble along with these other 8 points awarded....)

I agree with 6 minutes, and referees should not think they are part of the "show". Which it is clear some do.
Feb 20, 2011 8:00pm
C

Coach Ramirez

Senior Member

232 posts
Feb 20, 2011 8:20 PM
You know you are a good ref when people dont even notice or remember you on the mat.
Feb 20, 2011 8:20pm
B

buckeyefan

Junior Member

16 posts
Feb 20, 2011 9:43 PM
totally agree with you , watched many matches there was one ref in particular that maybe was losing his sight and I am not kidding it was unbelievable.
Feb 20, 2011 9:43pm
P

Power half

Senior Member

143 posts
Feb 20, 2011 9:49 PM
wmfan;685229 wrote:I first want to say that I too realize that sometimes these kids not only have to wrestle their opponent, but also poor officiating is part of every game, match or sport. I also don't agree with bashing the refs. But at this level, only the best of the best should be there.

In this case all points 1, 1, 2 were given on the first stop of action.....I have never seen this done in over 25 years of either participating in or watching HS wrestling. I understand that the points are awarded per warning not as a penalty....I am not saying there should be a warning first, just that the wrestler should have been made aware of the infraction, before the second, third and 4th point were awarded....

Please explain the 4 point near fall rule....again I have never seen or heard of it being awarded in this manner before. I have also never seen a 10 point move before, (there was a reversal out of a scramble along with these other 8 points awarded....)

I agree with 6 minutes, and referees should not think they are part of the "show". Which it is clear some do.

The ref was right there is no warning for Illegal holds. He was poking in the eyes on purpose. What did you want the ref to do stop the match let him off his back, then award the penalty. If thats the case everytime your about to get pinned poke the guys eye out and take a point to get off your back. The 4 point near fall was because the 3rd time he poked the kid in the eye he let go and grabbed his eye. The kid should have been thrown out of the tournament for that kind of behavior. Besides that its only 5 points in the match he was tech falled he was still getting dominated 16-1 final.
Feb 20, 2011 9:49pm
H

hizzmuther

Senior Member

215 posts
Feb 20, 2011 10:00 PM
Hilliard Bradley sectional... I watched wrestling all day and sure, I saw stalling calls I disagreed with and I know that ref missed seeing a pin in the finals match at 152... I could see it all the way up in the stands, I don't know why he couldn't. No really, I disagreed with the refs all day long on little calls that went against my guys, but I'm sure they were right. I don't think there was one ref there that made a lot of mistakes or really major mistakes. They did have different tolerances for stalling, fleeing the mat, stalemates, etc, but that just made it interesting. Over all, I'd say we had a good lot. People watching other matches, or watching more closely, may have a different opinion.
Feb 20, 2011 10:00pm
T

Tony Mead

Senior Member

323 posts
Feb 20, 2011 10:03 PM
8 points at one given moment is weird and very unfortunate. i would like to see this rule get clarified with the referees. i did see the ref remove the hand from the face 3 times. the fact that the boy that got hit was on his back its considered a pinning combination which is why the match wasnt stopped when he was on his back. as soon as he rolled to his stomach he stopped the match.

4 back points 1, 1 and 2 all at once. score was 4-0 and automatically 12 to 0 there is no way a kid should score 8 pts at one given time.

what confused me was im assuming the 4th back point was 1 point for poking him in the eye to get off his back? then the 3 t.v.'s were awarded for 4 more points. wouldnt the poke be part of the t.v.'s?

this happen at the youth level this year to. except at the youth match the kid was penalized 1, 1, 2, dq all at once from being on his back. this should never hapen at the youth level!
this is one of those rules that the way it happen it was correctly called AS PER THE RULES. but needs adjusted to make it a verbal announcement or something more noticable so the kid knows he is getting penalized.
Feb 20, 2011 10:03pm
S

Standoff22

Member

58 posts
Feb 20, 2011 10:04 PM
Refs are always going to make bad calls, it happens. Yes there are a select few that should definitely not be refs, but refs aren't given the credit they deserve for making minimal mistakes in such a tough sport. Before you criticize do it and see how you like it. My guess is you would never complain again.
Feb 20, 2011 10:04pm
P

ptrsn

Senior Member

356 posts
Feb 20, 2011 10:37 PM
i am almost postive (95% certain) the OHSAA requires 2 refs on all advancement matches (conso semis and semis at sectionals and dictricts).
Feb 20, 2011 10:37pm