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Cavs fans...question

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KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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4,317 posts
Dec 30, 2010 11:30 PM
thedynasty1998;618841 wrote:And Gilbert thought Hickson was so valuable that he wouldn't give him up for Amare. You can't blame Lebron for being honest with potential free agents.

Just something I found from a previous article in regards to the trade rumors:


Cleveland is without a doubt the front-runner. It is being said that Cleveland is offering Zydrunas Ilgauskas, JJ Hickson, and possibly a draft pick(s)/ and another small player (Danny Green, Jawad Williams).

So why hasn’t anything happened?

“The ball is in Phoenix’s court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas’s $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire, ” according to ESPN’s Chris Broussard.

Such a deal would help the Suns not only financially (they are $5 million over the luxury tax), but it would bring them a great young talent in JJ Hickson.

“The natural trade that makes sense here would be Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson for Stoudemire. The Suns could also ask for draft picks, as the Cavs own their full slate of first-round picks in the future. The Cavs and Suns talked about Hickson in the O’Neal deal, but the Cavs wanted to keep him. So the Suns have a history of interest in Hickson. They also considered drafting him in 2008 but took Robin Lopez instead,” according to Cavs beat writer, Brian Windhorst.


Hoops23 is spot on. The Suns wouldnt pull the trigger and the Cavs didnt want to get left out in the cold so they made the move for Jamison. The Cavs didnt want to include JJ in the Shaq trade talks from the previous year.
Dec 30, 2010 11:30pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Dec 30, 2010 11:54 PM
The Raptors also agreed to S&T Bosh to Cleveland this past offseason, but Bosh wanted no part of it.

They all knew the whole time that they'd be teaming up in Miami.
Dec 30, 2010 11:54pm
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Dec 31, 2010 12:06 AM
I believe that if the Cavs could have traded for Stoudemire, they would have.

However, I'm not so sure that they "knew" the entire time. Bosh simply did not want to play in Cleveland. Lebron on the other hand, I tend to think really considered returning. However because he had the franchise by the balls and caused them to make short sighted move, after short sighted move... there was really no major move they could make to improve the team.
Dec 31, 2010 12:06am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Dec 31, 2010 12:11 AM
You can think whatever you want, but all the subtle hints were there. They talked about it since 2008 when they were teamed up on Team USA...

LeBron one time in NY, a couple seasons back, told a reporter that his FA "Will shock the world."...

Bosh, turning down a chance to come to Cleveland to play on a team that just won 66 games? You're telling me, he'd turn that chance down unless they knew?

The whole FA summit with these 3 talking throughout...

Come on, only an idiot fool would think they had no idea about how this would play out.
Dec 31, 2010 12:11am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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Dec 31, 2010 12:13 AM
mallymal614;617774 wrote:This shows how good LeBron really was with Cleveland. Yet the same haters wanted to say he was the problem. He took a team with almost the exact same roster to 66 and 61 wins back-to-back seasons. Now minus Lebron, only 8 wins heading into the New Year? Maybe James overachieved in Cleveland seeing how the squad is being exposed without him.

I agree. Those "shooters" still have a chance to shoot now that he is gone, and they aren't doing a good enough job. I tend to think fans on the inside just can't allow themselves to understand just how good Lebron was when he was on the team.

Last year's team had some different pieces, but I don't think you can point to West or Shaq as the reasons why last year's team was better. Shaq got his finger pulled on and missed couple months of the season. West had legal troubles for the first part of the season and only averaged 8 ppg. Sessions at least equals West IMO. and c'mon Z? I think most of us can admit that Z was not much of a help to the team last season. He also missed a lot of time due to the trade and once he returned he wasn't much of a factor.
Dec 31, 2010 12:13am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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Dec 31, 2010 12:16 AM
hoops23;619092 wrote: Bosh, turning down a chance to come to Cleveland to play on a team that just won 66 games?

He turned down cold Cleveland with the potential for Lebron for the party down in Miami with D-wade. I've always heard he was much tighter with Wade and wanted to play him. Lebron coming down too was just icing on the cake.

I tend to think that Bosh knew that the second he joined he either guy's team, that team would automatically do just fine. I mean sure, the Cavs won 66 games, but they hadn't won anything more than some Eastern conference banners. I tend to think Pat Riley probably showed him some rings.
Dec 31, 2010 12:16am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Dec 31, 2010 12:17 AM
LOL @ West and Sessions being equal.

And Z was a pretty good contributor. Stats don't tell the whole story, but what do we have inside now? Andy is great, but what else? Z gave us a big who could rebound well and also stretch the D.

These shooters aren't getting the same looks.

1 player doesn't win 66 games by himself, no matter how good he is. Remember LA after Shaq left? Kobe wasn't winning 60 games. Hell, he didn't even win 50 games and that was in his prime.

LeBron is the best player in the game, I don't think anybody is denying that.
Dec 31, 2010 12:17am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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Dec 31, 2010 12:21 AM
hoops23;619106 wrote:LOL @ West and Sessions being equal.

Sessions- 9.7 ppg, 2.6 rebounds, 3.9 assists

West (last season) - 8.8 ppg, 2.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists

haha, try and explain this to me. I say they are pretty equal and even if you still maintain that West is superior, the difference isn't enough to cause a drastic shift in wins and losses.
Dec 31, 2010 12:21am
jordo212000's avatar

jordo212000

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Dec 31, 2010 12:45 AM
I also maintain that Shaq was much more of a hindrance than a help. Shaq still seemed to think he was 2001 Shaq last season. He still seemed to think he was the alpha dog. If Shaq got the ball in the paint, you might as well have forgot about it, he was going to try and score regardless of whether or not he should been.

His style also didn't jive well with Lebron. Lebron has to have the ball and he likes to drive inside the paint. Shaq's big butt clogged lane. Plus as I already mentioned, Shaq used to get the ball and sit on it for the entire 24 seconds before clanging a baby hook. Defensively he and Mo Williams were not a good pairing, especially against fast PGs. Mo can't keep anything in front of him and when Shaq would go to help, he was far too slow to do anything. He either hacked the PG, came up leaving his guy wide open, or was too slow to help and recover.
Dec 31, 2010 12:45am
D

dave

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Dec 31, 2010 1:00 AM
jordo212000;619108 wrote:Sessions- 9.7 ppg, 2.6 rebounds, 3.9 assists

West (last season) - 8.8 ppg, 2.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists

haha, try and explain this to me. I say they are pretty equal and even if you still maintain that West is superior, the difference isn't enough to cause a drastic shift in wins and losses.
There is a huge difference. West was getting that with Lebron getting his 27,8,8 or whatever he averaged last year. When Sessions is on the court he's one of the primary scorers. If he played along side Lebron he would barely touch the rock.
Dec 31, 2010 1:00am
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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Dec 31, 2010 8:59 AM
jordo212000;619108 wrote:Sessions- 9.7 ppg, 2.6 rebounds, 3.9 assists

West (last season) - 8.8 ppg, 2.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists

haha, try and explain this to me. I say they are pretty equal and even if you still maintain that West is superior, the difference isn't enough to cause a drastic shift in wins and losses.

Delonte could guard pg's, sg's and at times (Orlando series) would get out there and guard the sf position. I dont care what the stats say, Delonte West is a better basketball player than Ramon Sessions is. If you really believe that Sessions was/is a better player than you dont know the game of basketball
Dec 31, 2010 8:59am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Dec 31, 2010 9:18 AM
hoops23;619024 wrote:I do believe this is a blessing in disguise though. Much better to have a complete down year and grab a lottery pick than it is to stroll on the treadmill of mediocrity that is 40 win seasons and not much else.

I completely agree with this.

Regarding Amare, he was available. Whether Phoenix turned down the Cavs offer or not, I'm not certain, but if they did they should have came up with something else.

I expected the Cavs to be much more competitive, but the fact that they are not is not necessarily a bad thing. With that said, I think it makes Gilbert look like a fool. He took pride in changing the culture and doing "whatever it took to win", but in reality he was just the luckiest owner in all of sports.

West and Delonte are basically the same. Yes, you can use the argument that West didn't have as many options, but I would argue that his scoring was much easier playing alongside Lebron. Put Sessions next to Lebron and I would imagine his stats to be even more impressive.
Dec 31, 2010 9:18am
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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Dec 31, 2010 9:28 AM
thedynasty1998;619268 wrote:I completely agree with this.

Regarding Amare, he was available. Whether Phoenix turned down the Cavs offer or not, I'm not certain, but if they did they should have came up with something else.

I expected the Cavs to be much more competitive, but the fact that they are not is not necessarily a bad thing. With that said, I think it makes Gilbert look like a fool. He took pride in changing the culture and doing "whatever it took to win", but in reality he was just the luckiest owner in all of sports.

West and Delonte are basically the same. Yes, you can use the argument that West didn't have as many options, but I would argue that his scoring was much easier playing alongside Lebron. Put Sessions next to Lebron and I would imagine his stats to be even more impressive.

West and Delonte are the same person. I know what you meant though.

I have seen Delonte carry the Cavs, I cant say the same thing about Ramon. Delonte came up huge in a couple playoff games, especially with ther Celtics. If I had to choose between the two I'm picking Delonte over Ramon all day.

What should the Cavs have done if the Suns turned down the offer? You cant make a team trade their player. The Cavs had an offer out there and the Suns declined. There were rumors that Amare wanted to stay with the Suns and sign a max deal. Maybe Kerr liked his chances and decided to hold onto him.
Dec 31, 2010 9:28am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Dec 31, 2010 9:50 AM
KR1245;619275 wrote:West and Delonte are the same person. I know what you meant though.

I have seen Delonte carry the Cavs, I cant say the same thing about Ramon. Delonte came up huge in a couple playoff games, especially with ther Celtics. If I had to choose between the two I'm picking Delonte over Ramon all day.

What should the Cavs have done if the Suns turned down the offer? You cant make a team trade their player. The Cavs had an offer out there and the Suns declined. There were rumors that Amare wanted to stay with the Suns and sign a max deal. Maybe Kerr liked his chances and decided to hold onto him.

I'd prefer Delonte as well, if you knew he wasn't going to smoke crack after every game.

I don't know what else the Cavs could have done, maybe get a third team involved? There is a price for everything. Amare was on the market, and it didn't make sense for a lot of teams because of his expiring contract and then him looking for a max deal. But it did make sense for the Cavs, because they could have won a championship with him. If there are two players you could match up in the NBA, I think Lebron and Amare is the best combination out of any other possible one (other than maybe Lebron and Blake Griffin). They would have been scary together.

I'm highly interested to see what the Cavs can do with Jamison. I never liked the trade, but if they can unload him this year, then it's not as bad as if they are stuck with him for another year.
Dec 31, 2010 9:50am
mucalum49's avatar

mucalum49

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Dec 31, 2010 3:35 PM
Cleveland Buck;618906 wrote:I don't think you can blame Cavs fans for not filling up and bringing energy to Charlotte's building, seeing as how that is where they played last night. Of course, if you were at the Q last night, I'm sure it was pretty dead.

Sorry I see how my comment could be taken that way. I just meant utter lack of enthusiasm to be at a game in general. I went to some other games away from the Q and it used to have a better atmosphere when the Cavs were in town. People used to be excited to try and beat us and now we've become another bottom feeder.
Dec 31, 2010 3:35pm
mucalum49's avatar

mucalum49

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Jan 14, 2011 9:04 AM
My thoughts exactly. I know the Bobcats are going cheap cause Jordan really overextended himself to buy the team but for the Cavs it makes no sense. We better get an unprotected #1 from them as well because essentially the two teams will trade places in the standings with this trade IMO.
Jan 14, 2011 9:04am
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wes_mantooth

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Jan 14, 2011 9:07 AM
I dont like that at all....we need to just keep tanking
Jan 14, 2011 9:07am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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Jan 14, 2011 9:13 AM
Not sure how I feel about this. It's a two year deal, so nothing is hurt. It makes the Cavs more competitive, however they will only hurt themselves with in the draft. I am a believer in Gerald Wallace however, and think he instantly becomes the Cavs best player.
Jan 14, 2011 9:13am
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Commander of Awesome

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Jan 14, 2011 9:20 AM
thedynasty1998;637920 wrote: I am a believer in Gerald Wallace however, and think he instantly becomes the Cavs best player.
Oh no doubt about that.
Jan 14, 2011 9:20am
F

Footwedge

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9,265 posts
Jan 14, 2011 9:22 AM
jordo212000;617506 wrote:haha, the OP kind of lends itself to that sort of thing. The preseason thread immediately came to mind when I saw this thread.

The win goes goes to hoops though in that thread:

He then went on to accuse me and dynasty of being the same person or lovers because we did not agree with him.

I deserve the ass pounding that I'm getting here. But what's good about this season, I have time to do other, more important things.

Cavs front court without Verajou is the worst I've ever seen in pro hoops. And Jamison....whewww.

Gilbert/Ferry made monumental errors in signing Shaq and Jamison. And the meltdown by DeLonte did not help either. Z going over the hill didn't help matters either.
Jan 14, 2011 9:22am
F

Footwedge

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Jan 14, 2011 9:26 AM
jordo212000;619108 wrote:Sessions- 9.7 ppg, 2.6 rebounds, 3.9 assists

West (last season) - 8.8 ppg, 2.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists

haha, try and explain this to me. I say they are pretty equal and even if you still maintain that West is superior, the difference isn't enough to cause a drastic shift in wins and losses.
Seesions can't sniff the smegma off of DeLonte's balls. Sessions does not belong in the NBA.
Jan 14, 2011 9:26am
F

Footwedge

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Jan 14, 2011 9:28 AM
jordo212000;619130 wrote:I also maintain that Shaq was much more of a hindrance than a help.
Gee whizz...Ya think? When did you start to "maintain" this thought process? I was the only poster on the boards last year that called it right on Shaq.
Jan 14, 2011 9:28am
S

sportswizuhrd

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3,215 posts
Jan 14, 2011 9:29 AM
Here is why...
No deal is imminent, and the Cavaliers have until July 10 to use the $14.5 million trade exception created from the sign-and-trade with the Miami Heat for LeBron James(notes). If the NBA and Players Association haven’t reached a new collective bargaining agreement by the end of June, the Cavs would run the risk of having the trade exception expire during the lockout.
Getting Wallace is better than letting 14.5 million burn in your pocket. No lockout, then turn around and deal him in the summer/next season.
Jan 14, 2011 9:29am
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Skyhook79

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Jan 14, 2011 10:19 AM
Footwedge;637944 wrote:Gee whizz...Ya think? When did you start to "maintain" this thought process? I was the only poster on the boards last year that called it right on Shaq.

How was Shaq more of a hinderance than a help? The year before Shaq came the Cavs had the best record in the NBA and the year with Shaq they had the best record in the NBA.
The year before Shaq came the Cavs lost in the 2nd round of the Playoffs and the year with Shaq they lost in the 2nd round of the Playoffs.
Shaq averaged 12 ppg and 7 rpg in 23 mins of work per game, I don't see how that was a hinderance at all. The biggest obstacle to the Cavs success was leadership and toughness in the Playoffs. No one on that team showed any of that in the Playoffs.
Jan 14, 2011 10:19am