Bitcoin

Diversification in crypto is a bad idea. Buy bitcoin or nothing. If you can point to a founder or creator it’s a bad idea and likely an exit scam. 

But we’ve had this talk before and neither one of us has or will change our minds. 

And buying nothing isn’t a bad idea. Actually don’t buy bitcoin.  Definitely don’t buy bitcoin. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/tim-draper-predicts-bitcoin-will-reach-250000-despite-ftx-collapse.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.Message

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/btc-bitcoin-could-fall-to-5000-standard-chartered-predicts.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.Message

Talk about worlds apart.....

I haven't read either link, but based on the first headline I'll say that the FTX crash ultimately means nothing to bitcoin. It's not the first crypto casino to collapse and won't be the last. That place was pretty much a shit show from the drop and everyone involved deserves everything coming their way.

Meanwhile, every 10 minutes, a new block in mined and the bitcoin network chugs along without a care.

posted by justincredible

Diversification in crypto is a bad idea.

This is horrible investment advice always and everywhere.  I mean, tell me crypto is a shitty investment without saying crypto is a shitty investment.

Also, institutions are getting burned on these exchange meltdowns.  And they start pulling back is a huge headwind for all of crypto.

Saw a blurb over half of holders are underwater, which again is fully expected from unsophisticated investors lacking basic risk management.  But those people wash out, and you have to hope for a new batch of suckers to give away their hard earned cash, because crypto remains a zero-sum game.

posted by gut

This is horrible investment advice always and everywhere.  I mean, tell me crypto is a shitty investment without saying crypto is a shitty investment.

Also, institutions are getting burned on these exchange meltdowns.  And they start pulling back is a huge headwind for all of crypto.

Saw a blurb over half of holders are underwater, which again is fully expected from unsophisticated investors lacking basic risk management.  But those people wash out, and you have to hope for a new batch of suckers to give away their hard earned cash, because crypto remains a zero-sum game.

Yes, crypto is a shitty investment. That's what I've been saying.

I'm weary of all crypto because I have yet to find another soul on this earth who can explain it to me in anything approaching common sense language.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I'm weary of all crypto because I have yet to find another soul on this earth who can explain it to me in anything approaching common sense language.  

I'll try to explain bitcoin as simply as possible. Let me know if this helps or is still too high level. 

The bitcoin network is essentially a distributed ledger of all transactions that have been validated by the network. Ownership of those transactions can be proven cryptographically, so only the person in possession of the private key can do anything with it. This means, if you hold your own keys it can't be taken from you, but if you lose your keys it's gone forever. Also, if the transaction is valid it cannot be censored or stopped by anyone.

Every 10 minutes or so a batch of transactions that have been broadcast to and validated by the network get bundled up into a "block" and added to the ledger (or "chain", thus "blockchain") and distributed to every node on the network. This creates an immutable history of all transactions that have ever occurred on the bitcoin network that can be verified by anyone on the network. This means, if you run your own node on the network you can always verify that your bitcoin actually exists. 

Each block that is added to the blockchain also includes a pre-determined amount of new bitcoin that is controlled by whoever "mined" it. That just means they were the lucky one that created the block that was added to the blockchain. This gives miners the financial incentive to join the network. Every 4 years the amount of new bitcoin mined in each block is cut in half. Once the last bitcoin is mined (around 2140) there will never be another one created. This scheduled is programmed in and cannot be modified so it's impossible to "print more" bitcoin.

This ultimately gives you a verifiably secure and verifiably scarce digital asset that you can't be stopped from using and it cannot be taken from you*.

The alternative, in the near-ish future, is the CBDC, or Central Bank Digital Currency. This is what kicks off the dystopian nightmare you've read about and watched in movies and tv shows your whole life. Imagine a digital currency that the gov't controls and can lock you out of at any point for any arbitrary reason they deem acceptable. This means if they don't like what you're buying or who you're buying it from, your money is no good. 

Most other crypto operate much like a CBDC would, at least in that they are controlled by a single entity and cannot be verified the same way bitcoin can.

I like to think of the bitcoin network as a "Federal Reserve" with monetary policy that cannot be changed and can be audited by anyone at any time.

It's a reserve currency for the digital age, more or less.

posted by justincredible

I'll try to explain bitcoin as simply as possible. Let me know if this helps or is still too high level. 

The bitcoin network is essentially a distributed ledger of all transactions that have been validated by the network. Ownership of those transactions can be proven cryptographically, so only the person in possession of the private key can do anything with it. This means, if you hold your own keys it can't be taken from you, but if you lose your keys it's gone forever. Also, if the transaction is valid it cannot be censored or stopped by anyone.

Every 10 minutes or so a batch of transactions that have been broadcast to and validated by the network get bundled up into a "block" and added to the ledger (or "chain", thus "blockchain") and distributed to every node on the network. This creates an immutable history of all transactions that have ever occurred on the bitcoin network that can be verified by anyone on the network. This means, if you run your own node on the network you can always verify that your bitcoin actually exists. 

Each block that is added to the blockchain also includes a pre-determined amount of new bitcoin that is controlled by whoever "mined" it. That just means they were the lucky one that created the block that was added to the blockchain. This gives miners the financial incentive to join the network. Every 4 years the amount of new bitcoin mined in each block is cut in half. Once the last bitcoin is mined (around 2140) there will never be another one created. This scheduled is programmed in and cannot be modified so it's impossible to "print more" bitcoin.

This ultimately gives you a verifiably secure and verifiably scarce digital asset that you can't be stopped from using and it cannot be taken from you*.

What to stop buying up a bunch before it’s all halved every 4 years?

posted by justincredible

I'll try to explain bitcoin as simply as possible. Let me know if this helps or is still too high level. 

The bitcoin network is essentially a distributed ledger of all transactions that have been validated by the network. Ownership of those transactions can be proven cryptographically, so only the person in possession of the private key can do anything with it. This means, if you hold your own keys it can't be taken from you, but if you lose your keys it's gone forever. Also, if the transaction is valid it cannot be censored or stopped by anyone.

Every 10 minutes or so a batch of transactions that have been broadcast to and validated by the network get bundled up into a "block" and added to the ledger (or "chain", thus "blockchain") and distributed to every node on the network. This creates an immutable history of all transactions that have ever occurred on the bitcoin network that can be verified by anyone on the network. This means, if you run your own node on the network you can always verify that your bitcoin actually exists. 

Each block that is added to the blockchain also includes a pre-determined amount of new bitcoin that is controlled by whoever "mined" it. That just means they were the lucky one that created the block that was added to the blockchain. This gives miners the financial incentive to join the network. Every 4 years the amount of new bitcoin mined in each block is cut in half. Once the last bitcoin is mined (around 2140) there will never be another one created. This scheduled is programmed in and cannot be modified so it's impossible to "print more" bitcoin.

This ultimately gives you a verifiably secure and verifiably scarce digital asset that you can't be stopped from using and it cannot be taken from you*.

I appreciate you trying, but I don’t understand this at all.  My questions are probably too numerous to list, but I’ll try one at a time:

Are “private keys” synonymous with bitcoin currency? 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I appreciate you trying, but I don’t understand this at all.  My questions are probably too numerous to list, but I’ll try one at a time:

Are “private keys” synonymous with bitcoin currency? 

If you don't think too much about the technical piece of it, does the distributed ledger make sense? 

Basically just a big database of who owns what that anyone can verify and it cannot be counterfeited or changed. That, plus the digital scarcity, are the big breakthroughs with bitcoin.

As for the private keys, yes, consider those your "currency" because you need the private keys to move or "spend" your bitcoin.

posted by Ironman92

What to stop buying up a bunch before it’s all halved every 4 years?

Price goes up.

Does El Salvador's experiment with bitcoin adoption scare you?  I ask because bitcoin is 100% digital so far as i know and my farm in rural ohio (i.e. not the third world and certainly in a civilized part of the country, meaning it's not the middle of BLM land in Wyoming) and i cannot get internet at the farm until the leaves come off the trees completely (like mid october) and i lose internet about the first of April.  so i doubt you'll ever seen huge portions of this country ever see the value in it.

posted by j_crazy

Does El Salvador's experiment with bitcoin adoption scare you?  I ask because bitcoin is 100% digital so far as i know and my farm in rural ohio (i.e. not the third world and certainly in a civilized part of the country, meaning it's not the middle of BLM land in Wyoming) and i cannot get internet at the farm until the leaves come off the trees completely (like mid october) and i lose internet about the first of April.  so i doubt you'll ever seen huge portions of this country ever see the value in it.

Not much scares me anymore. 

We're also not too far away from ubiquitous satellite internet so I don't see a lack of connection as an issue long term.

Also, what are the populations living without internet vs with internet in the US? I have to imagine 95% or more of US citizens live in an area with service.

posted by justincredible

If you don't think too much about the technical piece of it, does the distributed ledger make sense? 

Basically just a big database of who owns what that anyone can verify and it cannot be counterfeited or changed. That, plus the digital scarcity, are the big breakthroughs with bitcoin.

As for the private keys, yes, consider those your "currency" because you need the private keys to move or "spend" your bitcoin.

Distributed ledger sounds like a public database showing who owns what.  If that is correct, I get that.

The blocks, nodes and mining I don’t understand still.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Distributed ledger sounds like a public database showing who owns what.  If that is correct, I get that.

The blocks, nodes and mining I don’t understand still.

You got the gist, then. Does the Federal Reserve analogy makes sense?

Don't worry about not understanding the technical aspects of it. 

What jumped it up today?