Players declaring for NBA draft

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jpake1's avatar

jpake1

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2,389 posts
Mar 30, 2010 6:43 PM
I honestly don't have a problem with the way the draft is set up. Everybody is benefiting from this. Even the players like John Wall. Truth of the matter is that college, even in the sense of the basketball team, will help them mature. It's one more year of experience on a bigger stage. I'd just like them to allow them fresh out of HS because it would help college coaches more. It's hard to recruit when you don't know if a player like Ed Davis will be one and done, or he'll be there 3 years. It's hard to plan. You either fall short or you overload based on their decision.
Mar 30, 2010 6:43pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Mar 30, 2010 6:49 PM
I totally understand the rule--they're protecting their franchises from wasting millions on an over hyped high school kid. But I just think it's BS that a kid can't throw his name in the draft when he's 18 years old. He's an adult. I could apply go apply for some professional position that I'm no where near qualified for--and they'd throw my resume out with a laugh. These NBA guys are supposed to be able to spot the best players, they're professionals too--I don't understand punishing the players because some scout can't figure out that Gerald Green isn't worthy of a draft pick. And we both know it's bullshit to think that they don't know the risk of picking a high school kid when they do. They just took a shortcut and eliminated the risk to make their job easier. I can't really blame them for that either. Like I said, I just don't understand punishing the players because some scout is moron.
Mar 30, 2010 6:49pm
jpake1's avatar

jpake1

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Mar 30, 2010 6:55 PM
Exactly my thoughts. The rule is in place because the word POTENTIAL. It's done many scouts, GM's, and Owner's wrong. I can see why the NBA did it. Stern can help if some of the scouts are idiots, however, he can protect them a bit. But it's a hard job. All of us have better smarter than a scout/GM at one point in time, but we've also thought a guy would be sweet, but he never amounted to shit. But hey, we've got an excuse. We aren't scouting the kids like hawks. We only see them on ESPN or youtube.
Mar 30, 2010 6:55pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Mar 30, 2010 7:03 PM
Yep, if you're going to draft on potential you're inevitably going to get it wrong at some point. It's not like it doesn't still happen with college kids..
Mar 30, 2010 7:03pm
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cview

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351 posts
Mar 30, 2010 7:46 PM
I too would like to see them abolish the one year rule. There are always the cautionary tales of Lenny Cooke and Gerald Green and several others, but it has been proven time and again that the jump can be made successfully. Just off the top of my head...

Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Kendrick Perkins
Monta Ellis
Lou Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Tracy McGrady
Rashard Lewis
JR Smith
Josh Smith
Tyson Chandler

Pretty good list of players there. If the kids are good enough, let them go. If they aren't, then they a) on't get drafted b)the organization that drafts them will face the consequences. There is absolutely no reason Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, OJ Mayo, Derrick Rose, or John Wall EVER belonged on a college basketball court.
Mar 30, 2010 7:46pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

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Mar 30, 2010 8:37 PM
cview wrote: I too would like to see them abolish the one year rule. There are always the cautionary tales of Lenny Cooke and Gerald Green and several others, but it has been proven time and again that the jump can be made successfully. Just off the top of my head...

Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Kendrick Perkins
Monta Ellis
Lou Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Tracy McGrady
Rashard Lewis
JR Smith
Josh Smith
Tyson Chandler

Pretty good list of players there. If the kids are good enough, let them go. If they aren't, then they a) on't get drafted b)the organization that drafts them will face the consequences. There is absolutely no reason Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, OJ Mayo, Derrick Rose, or John Wall EVER belonged on a college basketball court.
Yea, the majority of prep-to-pros players have been able to stick and contribute for their NBA teams. I prefer the kids be allowed to go straight to the pros.
Mar 30, 2010 8:37pm
j_crazy's avatar

j_crazy

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8,372 posts
Mar 30, 2010 8:54 PM
desegana diop. i was huggin his nuts big time out of HS. he's a solid player, but i was sure he'd be the next bill russell.
Mar 30, 2010 8:54pm
B

Big Gain

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2,073 posts
Mar 31, 2010 1:33 AM
SQ_Crazies wrote: Yep, I wouldn't either. He isn't there for that and IMO, certain players SHOULD get a break from people if they aren't there for the degree. They get what? A free ride? Big deal. They make way more for the university than what the university gives to them, they don't get to experience the same college life that everyone else does, they live in a chaotic environment, they're paraded around as BASKETBALL players not students. Especially a player like John Wall at a school like Kentucky. He's a household name, dude is a freshman in college. He's under pressure that most people don't ever have--you might think it's a pressure situation to get an A on your paper, but if you get a C you don't have thousands of people commenting about your performance. I'm fine with the rules about being eligible, but I mean if the season ends and you're going to the NBA--I don't think anyone should have a problem with them not going to class. Most of us can't imagine how busy John Wall will be between this coming weekend and the NBA draft. School shouldn't be his #1 priority when he's set to make millions within the next few years. He's worked as hard for that as people have for their 4.0's.
Oden, Conley, Cook, Koufos and Mullens didn't "make way more for Ohio State than what Ohio State gave to them". Ohio State basketball lost $350,000 again this year. As it has in the past several years.
Mar 31, 2010 1:33am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Mar 31, 2010 2:06 AM
If you're losing 350K a year it has nothing to do with the players.

Why do they lose so much a year? Honest question, my knowledge of the Buckeye basketball team isn't deep enough to know.

And they sure as hell got them some good pub and a ton of exposure for what is normally just an above average basketball program.
Mar 31, 2010 2:06am
S

slcoach

Senior Member

421 posts
Mar 31, 2010 9:55 AM
I would like to see the rule changed to allow high school players to enter the draft. But, if a player doesn't go directly to the NBA, the NFL rule kicks in that players must be three years removed from high school graduation. That way the Lebrons, Kobes, and John Walls' of the world can go straight to the league, but the Tommy Mason Griffin's have to stay in school/go oversees for 3 years.
Mar 31, 2010 9:55am
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

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Mar 31, 2010 11:52 AM
slcoach wrote: I would like to see the rule changed to allow high school players to enter the draft. But, if a player doesn't go directly to the NBA, the NFL rule kicks in that players must be three years removed from high school graduation. That way the Lebrons, Kobes, and John Walls' of the world can go straight to the league, but the Tommy Mason Griffin's have to stay in school/go oversees for 3 years.
That would be great, but it will never happen. This is why, say a kid played 1 year of college ball, and then wanted to go pro. If the NBA is going to allow prep-to-pro, there's no way they could legally stop the kid from entering the draft, and there's absolutely no way a college could force a kid to stay there.
Mar 31, 2010 11:52am
S

slcoach

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421 posts
Mar 31, 2010 12:44 PM
se-alum wrote:
slcoach wrote: I would like to see the rule changed to allow high school players to enter the draft. But, if a player doesn't go directly to the NBA, the NFL rule kicks in that players must be three years removed from high school graduation. That way the Lebrons, Kobes, and John Walls' of the world can go straight to the league, but the Tommy Mason Griffin's have to stay in school/go oversees for 3 years.
That would be great, but it will never happen. This is why, say a kid played 1 year of college ball, and then wanted to go pro. If the NBA is going to allow prep-to-pro, there's no way they could legally stop the kid from entering the draft, and there's absolutely no way a college could force a kid to stay there.

I get what you are saying, but if they can legally set who can and cannot enter now, what's to stop them under my rule? I agree that a school cannot force a kid to stay. I never said they had to stay in school. They can play a year or two stateside in college and then go oversees and finish the 3 year requirement. I think that this would be a great system, but there is one other thing that could really help high school kids out. If you allow prep to NBA entries, high schools kids cannot hire an agent until they have been drafted. That way when Johnny "my homeboys say I'm NBA ready" Doe doesn't get picked, they retain their college eligibility.
Mar 31, 2010 12:44pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Mar 31, 2010 12:47 PM
There is no need to make them stay in school for 3 years. The only reason the NFL does that is because there is RARELY a player that is physically ready to move on to that level out of high school or even after one year in the college. It's totally different than the NBA.
Mar 31, 2010 12:47pm
jpake1's avatar

jpake1

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2,389 posts
Mar 31, 2010 12:56 PM
Exactly. Every single HS senior football player in history would have been eaten up and spit out in the NFL. That goes for the Mr. Walker, and even Bo Knows Best. The NBA is such a different game. They're skinnier guys, but quite strong in their own ways. Plus the guy isn't nearly as physical. Let the kids go play. Players, scouts, GM's, and owners are either going to sink or swim with their decisions-- you just have to let them dive in and see what will become.
Mar 31, 2010 12:56pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Mar 31, 2010 1:34 PM
Yep, I don't think it's too much different than picking college players anyways. There have arguably been far MORE busts coming out college. And the percentage of kids from high school who became superstars is about 100 times higher than that same percentage of college students--it's because plenty of guys still went to college, most that came into the league were ready. They made a decision based on a knee jerk reaction because the number coming straight out of HS was growing after LeBron.
Mar 31, 2010 1:34pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

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Mar 31, 2010 2:23 PM
slcoach wrote:
se-alum wrote:
slcoach wrote: I would like to see the rule changed to allow high school players to enter the draft. But, if a player doesn't go directly to the NBA, the NFL rule kicks in that players must be three years removed from high school graduation. That way the Lebrons, Kobes, and John Walls' of the world can go straight to the league, but the Tommy Mason Griffin's have to stay in school/go oversees for 3 years.
That would be great, but it will never happen. This is why, say a kid played 1 year of college ball, and then wanted to go pro. If the NBA is going to allow prep-to-pro, there's no way they could legally stop the kid from entering the draft, and there's absolutely no way a college could force a kid to stay there.

I get what you are saying, but if they can legally set who can and cannot enter now, what's to stop them under my rule? I agree that a school cannot force a kid to stay. I never said they had to stay in school. They can play a year or two stateside in college and then go oversees and finish the 3 year requirement. I think that this would be a great system, but there is one other thing that could really help high school kids out. If you allow prep to NBA entries, high schools kids cannot hire an agent until they have been drafted. That way when Johnny "my homeboys say I'm NBA ready" Doe doesn't get picked, they retain their college eligibility.
Because right now, it is universal, everyone has to be one year removed from high school. They would never be able to get away w/ allowing some players to enter out of high school, then telling others that if they go to college they have to wait three years. Nobody wants to punish a kid for going to college, even if it is for one year. They either need to go to a 2-3 years removed from college rule or abolish the one year rule all together. I do like the idea of only players that have exhausted their eligibility being able to hire an agent.
Mar 31, 2010 2:23pm
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hoops23

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15,696 posts
Apr 1, 2010 3:14 PM
Manny Harris has signed with an agent (stupid!) so he won't be back..

Instead, he's content with being drafted in the 2nd round and possibly going undrafted altogether.
Apr 1, 2010 3:14pm
I

I drain 3's

Senior Member

574 posts
Apr 1, 2010 3:40 PM
Al-Farouq Aminu has decided to enter the draft and hire an agent.
Apr 1, 2010 3:40pm
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Mulva

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13,650 posts
Apr 1, 2010 4:07 PM
I'm not sure about Aminu. He's a potential lottery pick, so not a bad move to come out, but I'm not sure how his game translates. He has a lot of flaws offensively.
Apr 1, 2010 4:07pm
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centralbucksfan

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5,111 posts
Apr 1, 2010 4:29 PM
As I just put on a thread, any player assured of being a first round pick, might as well go forward with it. Not sure if this has been posted or not, but next spring, the NBA collective bargaining agreement comes to an end. There is talk of a holdout as well as 30% cuts for first round picks.
It would be stupid to chance staying another year and losing 30% money at this point.
Apr 1, 2010 4:29pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Apr 1, 2010 4:32 PM
centralbucksfan wrote: As I just put on a thread, any player assured of being a first round pick, might as well go forward with it. Not sure if this has been posted or not, but next spring, the NBA collective bargaining agreement comes to an end. There is talk of a holdout as well as 30% cuts for first round picks.
It would be stupid to chance staying another year and losing 30% money at this point.
Yeah, this hasn't been talked about for a few months probably--most people probably forgot. You know the players are well aware.
Apr 1, 2010 4:32pm
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enigmaax

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Apr 1, 2010 9:44 PM
se-alum wrote: They would never be able to get away w/ allowing some players to enter out of high school, then telling others that if they go to college they have to wait three years.
Isn't that exactly what Major League Baseball does?
Apr 1, 2010 9:44pm
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Azubuike24

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Apr 1, 2010 10:30 PM
It is, but there is also very competitive, high-paying basketball out there that players could opt for prior to that 3-year minimum. You might have guys doing 1-2 years in the NCAA and then a year in Europe, which doesn't do squat for college basketball and really doesn't help the NBA.

In MLB, most guys who stay in college do so because the highest level of baseball and the best chance to get to the MLB is with NCAA baseball. Also, in MLB, HS players can enter the draft, get drafted and field offers. They can then opt to attend college for 3 years. If the NBA did this, every player would know if they would be drafted and wouldn't have to sign their fate over (AKA, hiring an agent) before they know where they stand.

So yes, if the NCAA adopted the rule they have for baseball and applied it to basketball, that would be an improvement. However, I say go a step further and make use of the baseball rule, but change it from 3 years to 2 years. That fits the nature of the sport of basketball much better.
Apr 1, 2010 10:30pm
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Apr 1, 2010 10:55 PM
I don't think it'd be a good rule for the NBA or college baseball, I was just saying they could "get away with it". My understanding with the baseball rule is that part of the reason for the rule is to prevent guys from picking their own team by playing the draft every single year, then going/returning to college if they aren't picked by a team they want (and screwing teams out of picks in the process). There are obviously some other differences in the processes, but I think that is a consideration.

Personally, I think its kind of stupid for the NBA to have any rule in place but I also think it isn't their job to design rules for the sole purpose of benefitting the NCAA. It kind of sucks that NCAA basketball has suffered in a lot of ways, but unfortunately, I think the reality is that there is no realistic solution that is going to make it any better.
Apr 1, 2010 10:55pm
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karen lotz

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Apr 7, 2010 4:27 PM
Evan Turner and Xavier Henry
Apr 7, 2010 4:27pm